3* GamBat (0/0/5) build - Is this good for the game?

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  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.
    corytutor said:
    I built one recently just to see. He's absolutely broken. With 005 gambit, a freshly champed vulture and a lvl 451 phx i easily beat a 450 gambit bolt 270 rogue, a gambit bolt ss team, gambhawk bb, champed panthos teams, pretty much anything. I could swap phx for parker and its even better but largely because his synergy with vulture. 

    If adding a 5 cover 3* allows you to beat virtually any 5* team, with little to no healthpack usage its broken.  


    You said it best though.

    corytutor said:
    You do what you have too.

  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.

    I encountered a couple during my climb up Simulator. I was using a combination of teams to climb that all used under-covered or under-levelled characters, so that I could play around with some different team compositions. Once I was at near the end, I swapped over to Grocket/Gamora/Clagger and that team melted GamBat very quickly - those Strikes working with an attack tile from Cloak meant that any 0/0/5 Gambit didn't make it past turn 2. I didn't encounter the infamous Spider-Gwen + Thing + GamBat combo, and those protect tiles would certainly pose a problem for burning down Gambit quickly. I think if I had faced that team, I would have formed a more complete opinion.

    As it stands, I'm undecided; however, I am leaning towards No. The developers do not intend any character to be played under-covered on purpose - a driving factor behind the rework of IM40 was due to people keeping him at 1 or 2 yellow covers only. That said, there doesn't appear to have been any sort of attempt to dissuade Black Widow team ups or Charlie's Angels. Regardless, I think that using Gambit as a battery is very clearly not in the spirit of what the developers intended, based on the wording of the passive.

    I would expect that 5* Gambit remains in his current form, but 3* Gambit will receive a re-work of some description. This would create slightly more distinction between the two versions of the character. I would suggest turning the passive into an active which creates a Trap tile if one does not already exist. The Trap tile then generates the AP at the start of each turn.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.
    corytutor said:
    I built one recently just to see. He's absolutely broken. With 005 gambit, a freshly champed vulture and a lvl 451 phx i easily beat a 450 gambit bolt 270 rogue, a gambit bolt ss team, gambhawk bb, champed panthos teams, pretty much anything. I could swap phx for parker and its even better but largely because his synergy with vulture. 

    If adding a 5 cover 3* allows you to beat virtually any 5* team, with little to no healthpack usage its broken.  


    Two points:
    1) You still had to use a 5 with Gambat.
    2) You'd rather use two packs after every SSIM fight and grind out 72 wins?

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.
    OJSP said:
    CCW1208 said:
    It seemed that many players don't like Gambat. So I asked the same question: Does Gambat affect PVP PVE rank????
    I replied earlier and already answered yes to both.
    In regards to those points, the following should be considered:

    1. For PvP, the likelihood that a GamBat will have a significant influence on rankings is dependent on a variety of factors:

    - the overall strength of the team (for example, a high leveled 4* vs a champed 3*)
    - the intent of the user (working on the win grind, climbing for points, going for ranking or purposely hindering another player's ranking performance)
    - the speed at which a player is able clear a team

    Let's take for example the current Top Gun PvP. If a player is playing competitively, it's hard to imagine the GamBat being used for the purposes of hopping. Such a team would be too easy to hit. I can only see such a team having a chance at ranking if they late climb and manage to get an easy bracket with not a lot of competition.

    Additionally, most players competing for top rank have a fairly strong roster. Unless a GamBat team is fast enough to nullify the hop of a top tier PvP team such as Panthos or Gambolt, you are going to have a hard time arguing that it affects rank negatively.

    Obviously if you are a player climbing to shield, it's frustrating to get hit by such a team from down low but contrastingly, how happy would you be to see such a team worth juicy points while you start your climb? So I think it's fair to say it evens out to a certain extent.

    What GamBat does do, however, is open up the playing field to allow a player to use a variety of 4* and/or 5* combinations to help with the 40 game grind and climb. And having spent most of the year dealing primarily with Panthos, I for one welcome this meta-change. Variety is the spice of life as they say.

    In short, I doubt GamBat will have any significant affect on the rank for most PvP events. Sure, once in a blue moon when the stars align and we get a 4* event or high HP 3* event it might offer alternatives to the established top tier meta-teams but even then I find it highly unlikely someone would actually try to hop using such a team during the late game.

    Edit to add: I just noticed Thing and Rogue are boosted this week, and both have the potential to protect GamBat so it may be possible to hop with such a team. Even so, I don't see such teams being ideal for hopping and hey if you can pull it off, that's pretty cool in my book.

    2. As for your point on PvE, I don't disagree although I don't think GamBat will encourage people to tap. The tappers will continue to tap regardless of whether they have GamBat or not. And tapping is an issue that should be addressed regardless of the existence of GamBat. Or at least I think so.
  • Reecoh
    Reecoh Posts: 210 Tile Toppler
    No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance
    I like the build but I feel like he should be dialed back a bit. I'd like to see his AP generation feed from the player's own AP pool, so he's less of a battery and more of a converter.

    So in order to get your Red/Purple AP you'd need 2 other colors - say Blue/Green - in your pool, and your B/G is reduced by the same amount of R/P you gain. If you have no B/G when your turn starts, then you get no R/P, or if you have only Blue then you get only Red (and your blue is removed).

    This would make characters who drain AP a bit more useful as a counter and require at least some ramp-up time before Gambit gets rolling.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
    Bowgentle said:
    corytutor said:
    I built one recently just to see. He's absolutely broken. With 005 gambit, a freshly champed vulture and a lvl 451 phx i easily beat a 450 gambit bolt 270 rogue, a gambit bolt ss team, gambhawk bb, champed panthos teams, pretty much anything. I could swap phx for parker and its even better but largely because his synergy with vulture. 

    If adding a 5 cover 3* allows you to beat virtually any 5* team, with little to no healthpack usage its broken.  


    Two points:
    1) You still had to use a 5 with Gambat.
    2) You'd rather use two packs after every SSIM fight and grind out 72 wins?

    Point 1 remains to be seen. Plenty of other options, she was just best suited with both red and purple. I intend to try others later. 

    Point 2.  Hell no
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance
    I've seen it floating around and i havent lost to him yet in a team, but overall i don't think its a good thing, but if someone wants to use an under leveled 3* at sub 5k health , go for it. 
  • TranscendGod
    TranscendGod Posts: 53 Match Maker
    In the past week or so, I had a few hundred more defensive wins, a 1st place pvp finish, 2 5-10th place finishes, and a ~29 minute climb from 0-900+ with gambit battery. Seems a bit strong.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’d just like a comment from the developers as to whether or not he’s working as intended. If so, I need to build me a dupe and join the new “meta”.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.
    Having attempted to take on the Gambat a few times, I feel it is overpowered.  It boosted the team so fast that the 4 turns required to kill it provided enough AP to win the match with minimal damage done.  I was able to take it down with Gramora, but even those two turns cost me three health packs.
  • talleman
    talleman Posts: 445 Mover and Shaker
    Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.
    Almost got wiped against Thing - Spider Gwen - 3* 0/0/5 Gambit earlier with my Gamora - Medusa - Rocket & Groot. I thougt if i take out Gambit first and deny them the AP i will beat them easy but i forgot that Thing is very defensive about his allies and filled the board with defensive tiles! This made the battle against the time to get blue for Gamoras stun before Gwen go ape-sheet with her red and stunlock me with purple. I finally beat them with Gamora and R&Gs health bar below 2000 but i felt the power of 0/0/5 Gambit.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.
    under leveling or having characters -minus a cover has always been a thing.  It just so happens this time its with a good character.
  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance
    Me:
    420 Black Bolt
    343 Falcon
    391 Cyclops

    Opponent:
    70 Gambat
    385 Falcon
    277 Wasp

    I could see that his play was to get Bird Strike out and then flip the tiles with wasp, so I figured it would be easy to take out Gambat before he could generate enough purple to do much while denying yellow for wasp.  He got Bird Strike out on turn 3 and Black Bolt's 3k per turn was reduced to 1 point of dmg.  He quickly got another Bird Strike and in the end I won with only cyclops remaining with 4k health.  I was lucky to win at all.

    Any opponent with a lvl 70 character should NOT be an auto skip, but this team will be just that for me going forward.
  • Sandmaker
    Sandmaker Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance
    I actually like the variety of new strategies 0/0/5 Gambit brings. And for 3*, it is somewhat balanced by the low health pool.

    But I think once 5* 0/0/5 start becoming more popular (I've already seen a couple), the 4*/5* meta is going to become really degenerate. 

    I think the solution is to make not having red/purple powers a more explicit weakness. E.g. add one of the following to the black passive:

    -If Gambit doesn't have a red/purple ability, only generate 1 red/purple a turn.
    -If Gambit doesn't have a red or purple ability, this passive stuns Gambit for 2 turns.
    -If Gambit doesn't have a red or purple ability, Gambit loses X% of his hp each turn. 
    -If Gambit doesn't have a red/purple ability, red/purple matches generate no AP for Gambit's team.
    -Red/purple abilities of Gambit's allies all cost 6 more AP.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,290 Chairperson of the Boards
    Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.
    udonomefoo said:
    Me:
    420 Black Bolt
    343 Falcon
    391 Cyclops

    Opponent:
    70 Gambat
    385 Falcon
    277 Wasp

    I could see that his play was to get Bird Strike out and then flip the tiles with wasp, so I figured it would be easy to take out Gambat before he could generate enough purple to do much while denying yellow for wasp.  He got Bird Strike out on turn 3 and Black Bolt's 3k per turn was reduced to 1 point of dmg.  He quickly got another Bird Strike and in the end I won with only cyclops remaining with 4k health.  I was lucky to win at all.

    Any opponent with a lvl 70 character should NOT be an auto skip, but this team will be just that for me going forward.
    I had a similar battle, however one thing that went my way was all the free purple AP fed to Falcon allowed me to one-shot him with Mordo's purple. I had boosted purple going in anticipating it be a race to fire. After that, Gambat was useless. Even so, it could have gone the other way.
  • Uncletas
    Uncletas Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    Current pvp seeing him with champed Mordo. Having him fire both powers every other turn is brutal. Try to kill gambit first but it still takes time and they are getting a ton of ap while doing it. 
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Trying to remember that team I walked over in Simulator last night. I believe it was 375 SS, 301 RiRi (can't quite remember this, but it was a 301. May have been Mordo or Carol), and 89 GamBattery. I took my GotG against them. 451 Starlord, and 273 Gamora and GRocket. 

    1 shot on GamBattery to start the match. Took out the 301 in a few turns. 3 on 1 against an under covered SS the rest of the match, which wasn't long.

    I wish I saw more of these teams, as this was the first I'd seen. Unless there is a Deadpool or Thing out front to block for Black Gambit, I'm killing him quickly. I don't care if they can easily beat me with a retal when they're on offense because I can trade those retals to max progression quickly (if they're game to do that).
  • Uncletas
    Uncletas Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    Unfortunately, don’t have a champed 5 Star and champed grocket to add strike tokens. I think it will be something seen commonly with this in the 3 Star to mid 4 star area of the game. People are already just using him for a quick battery. If you’re not able to one shot him or take him out in the 2-3 rounds can be a painful match. 
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Uncletas said:
    Unfortunately, don’t have a champed 5 Star and champed grocket to add strike tokens. I think it will be something seen commonly with this in the 3 Star to mid 4 star area of the game. People are already just using him for a quick battery. If you’re not able to one shot him or take him out in the 2-3 rounds can be a painful match. 
    In your case, I would recommend trying to mirror match. Remember, you get the first match and can dictate the way the match goes. As soon as this post went up, everyone who visits the Forums should have switched their 3* BH over to Gambit and tried to get in on the goods. 

    Not saying any of this is possible for you, or others experiencing the issue, but fighting fire with fire has always been a great strategy when you're facing a weaker opponent (the AI). Best of luck!

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