3* GamBat (0/0/5) build - Is this good for the game?

babinro

What is GamBat?

For those who don't know, GamBat refers to the 3* 0/0/5 black gambit build.
This build generates 3 red AP and 3 purple AP passively each turn.   Since 0/0/5 Gambit has no active red or purple skills to fire, this means that any other ally can use that AP gain as they please to fire off skills.

What makes GamBat powerful?

GamBat pairs perfectly with Phoenix as a duo.  Phx fully protects all match damage on the board so GamBat will never take skill damage or match damage.  Her Red and Purple skills are devastating on offense especially when given a chance to build up and spam.   18 red and 21 purple is just about enough to take out any PvE or 3* PvP team cascade luck depending.  If they do survive (like in the case of high health 5* requirement nodes in PvE) then it probably won't be for long.

GamBat isn't limited to one 5* duo though.   Right now in the Ghost Rider pvp we can see one of the main duo's being used by top alliances for high end placement and enforcing has been 3* GamBat and 4* boosted Spider-Gwen.  This combo allows Gwen to stun a team of two characters indefinitely since that skill costs 6 purple and GamBat generates 6 purple every two turns.  In addition Gwen his a red skill that hits rather hard when boosted such that two castings of it (a skill that also costs 6 most of the time if played well) will down most 5*'s in the game.  Some with high champ levels will require a 3rd red not that this really changes things.

Spider-Gwen isn't the only good 4* character to pair with GamBat as we've seen people try out various 4* characters with good red and or purple skills.  People like Gwenpool, Nova, XFDP, Spider-Woman, etc can all be rather successful even if they are on a lower tier than the primary two above.

We have plenty of duo or trio teams that can win matches, what makes GamBat so different?

This question is where the real debate comes in and where the poll becomes relevant.  There is absolutely an argument that could be made that this is just another good duo/trio team that gets wins in a way that's not genuinely harmful for the game. 

Need other examples of teams that can hit well above what their tier suggests?
- Hawkeye/Coulson
- Peter Parker 5* / Vulture
- Xavier / (insert character that fires off special tiles here)

There is an argument to be made that good character synergies and creative teams should be rewarded.  Its also a fine, fairly arbitrary line that tells us when something goes too far in this case. 

What makes me feel that GamBat stands out is just the terrible precedence he sets.
- Since when is gaining 6 AP a turn considered reasonable?
- Do we really want to see more characters with this level of power added to the game?  A Blue/Green and Yellow/Black similar style character for example?
- Are we really okay with a 3* character making such a big impact on both PvE and PvP play?   GamBat is sufficient enough to easily place top 20 in PvE if not top 10.   In PvP you can do your ENTIRE climb with GamBat saving tons of health packs and place top 25 (or in the extreme case of this most recent Ghost rider pvp as high as 1st place.)


If GamBat needs fixing, how do we fix it?

"So long as Gambit remains conscious, other allies cannot fire active red or purple skills"

My proposed fix is pretty simple.  Keep the character working as it is when built up properly with 13 covers while putting an end to abusive teams that can really take advantage of massive AP ramp.   The problem here certainly isn't with the existence of Spider-Gwen for example...its the AP gain.


Conclusion

I hope this gives the context people need without too much of my bias built in. 

I think its important to say that a championed 5* Gambit is still excellent and appears to be more appealing than building him 0/0/5 so far.  Its rather early to come to that conclusion since Gambit is so new but a 5* 0/0/5 Gambit could negate some of the drawback of the 3* version and potentially take over long term.  We won't know this for a long time.

corytutor

Thanos loves him

Avalancher

Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.

Very very fun new toy.  I like him better at 0/5/5 so he doesn't die so fast.  Great for grinding to 40 wins or laughing at champed five stars while you beat them with an undercovered three.

I love it.

Avalancher

Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.

Also, at 0/5/5 he pops a very cheap red ability that can feed Professor X (3/5/5) or Kamala Khan.  

Big fun, great giant killer for lesser rosters.

Nick441234

No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance

Its ridiculous. I've only faced it once. Never again! Instant skip now. 

I went up against Spider Gwen, Thing & Gambit. Due to Thing being there, I couldn't target Gambit first so I just spent the whole match stunned and being battered by Gwen. I died barely doing any damage. 

Ruinate

My vote would definitely be a NO.  It's stupid.  Except 40 wins and boosted 5* clog is even stupider and my gaming has been easier because of Gambat.  So it is a yes for now.  

Avalancher

Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.

Rogue would be a good 3rd there too.  Gwenfinite will actually be viable in every PvP, no matter who the third character is. It will be crazy slow, but it will beat anything.  It's a great equalizer for people who need something to beat bigger rosters.

fight4thedream

Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.

I appreciate the variety it brings to PvP and think the low health of the 3* battery is a reasonable trade-off. While you may be able to climb the ladder of PvP with him, I doubt you will be able to float very long. I feel it is comparable to the other combos mentioned in the OP.  With that said, I do expect 3* Gambit to get nerfed if this becomes widespread. 

corytutor

Its a gimmick for gimmick users and loophole finders because you know, match 3 is hard.

whitecat31

Actually you guys are not looking at the right team.   With a red/yellow boost blue purple boost and a single +1 all colors. Coupled with Spider Gwen and Miles. You can stun the opposing team on turn 1. Spider Gwens purple ability will stun 2 of the opposing enemies for 2 random turns.  Miles red ability will stun the remaining unstunned character for one turn.  Both abilities cost 6.  Once you down one of the opponents characters, you can keep the opposition in a virtual stun lock. 

[Deleted User]

I had this in PVP, didnt even get a move off, frustrating doesnt begin to cover the experience...

Jarvind

aesthetocyst said:

Goon feeders were nerfed for a reason and should have stayed dead and buried as a concept.

Gambit's AP gain needs to be reined in and tied to some other game condition, like every other battery in the game. Locking out other's active is not enough, when he has damage-dealing and AP-generating powers in those colors!

That you can have said broken free AP w/o the restriction is even worse.

Unfortunately, looks like the devs buried goon feeders in the Pet Sematery .... so they came back.


Would you trust this man to bury your dead?

I don't wanna be buried, in a pet sematary, I don't want to live my life again

Killabee

No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance

I think it changes the meta in a negative way, but until they fix it, I'm using mines.

Punisher5784

Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.

aesthetocyst said:

Goon feeders were nerfed for a reason and should have stayed dead and buried as a concept.

Unfortunately, looks like the devs buried goon feeders in the Pet Sematery .... so they came back

Goon feeders are not dead, they are very much alive, just not as frequent as it used to be. Moonstone hit me with her Red every other turn during the recent Venom PvE.. it still exists with Doom with his Doombots, Gorgon with his Ninjas, Hood/KP with their Maggia, etc.

Which brings me to this question, if Gambit's black can block other teammates from using those colors, why can't every goon have a Passive that also stops their non-goon teammates from using the same color? That would finally stop Goon feeding!!

CCW1208

Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.

I have champion OML Phoenix. Near 50 champion 4 stars.
I played CL9 every event. Before gambat is introduced, I can not grind LV 515 node . I need to use a lots of aps, team-up to clean the nodes.  Now I can grind it with phoenix or spiderqwen with gambat.

So, I do not understand why should we nerf Gambat. 005 gambit is a good character, easy building,  Everyone can get it. Everyone can use it. It depends on what you need.  I dont get 40 wins in Ghostrider PVP. I know gambat spiderqwen is good. But it takes a lot of time to win the battle. Not everyone likes spend a lot of time in PVP.

My question is: Does gambat really affect PVP or PVE rank??????

As in 5 star land, NO. Only champion Thanos changes PVE rank. Without buffed condition, Gambat can die easily by thanos Court of death. 

As PVP, One champion vulture can kill my 5*team.  So why should we focus on one small 3*????

Borstock

No - This much AP gain to be used by any team as they please breaks the game balance

There's nothing wrong with the 3* version at 0/0/5. If you bring the right team, you can kill him in 1 turn and then it's a 3v2.

Jarvind

CCW1208 said:

I have champion OML Phoenix. Near 50 champion 4 stars.
I played CL9 every event. Before gambat is introduced, I can not grind LV 515 node . I need to use a lots of aps, team-up to clean the nodes.  Now I can grind it with phoenix or spiderqwen with gambat.

So, I do not understand why should we nerf Gambat. 005 gambit is a good character, easy building,  Everyone can get it. Everyone can use it. It depends on what you need.  I dont get 40 wins in Ghostrider PVP. I know gambat spiderqwen is good. But it takes a lot of time to win the battle. Not everyone likes spend a lot of time in PVP.

My question is: Does gambat really affect PVP or PVE rank??????

As in 5 star land, NO. Only champion Thanos changes PVE rank. Without buffed condition, Gambat can die easily by thanos Court of death. 

As PVP, One champion vulture can kill my 5*team.  So why should we focus on one small 3*????

Just because it works well for you in one particular situation doesn't mean it's good for the overall health of the game. Gambit sidesteps the need to match colors in order to fire powers, which  is...like, the entire game.

That said, if we're going to nerf Gambit then I'd personally say Thanos needs to be dialed down too. Prior to SCL scaling he was fine, but now he provides a ludicrous advantage for people shooting for placement in PVE.

whitecat31

aesthetocyst said:

whitecat31 said:

Actually you guys are not looking at the right team.   With a red/yellow boost blue purple boost and a single +1 all colors. Coupled with Spider Gwen and Miles. You can stun the opposing team on turn 1. Spider Gwens purple ability will stun 2 of the opposing enemies for 2 random turns.  Miles red ability will stun the remaining unstunned character for one turn.  Both abilities cost 6.  Once you down one of the opponents characters, you can keep the opposition in a virtual stun lock. 

... and if thats cool, then 3spidey wants his superspammy cheapo stun back.

Nerfed hard 3yrs ago, and it was nothing compared to gwenbit!

I agree about the 3spidey nerf.  Also, should I feel honored that I was responded to by aesthetocyst for his 5000th post to the forums? Is it like a hall of fame milestone? 

BoyWonder1914

Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.

Personally I choose to accept his weaknesses as a sufficient reason to not deem him broken, but that's strictly talking the 3-star version. I can't speak on the 5-star version because he doesn't share those same weaknesses. I will admit I may be biased, because I have my R3my champed and chose not to exploit this, so I'm not one of the people reaping the benefits.  Being forced to use his red & purple only, which is either 3-turn CDs that can get matched away and have a delayed payoff regardless, and very weak damage on red, there are only very specific situations that he really shines for me. 

When I see 0/0/5 3-Gambits on the other side of the board, I absolutely eat them alive. A GRocket/Guardian combo drops him quickly, he can be stunned quickly, but that admittedly does still usually leave the other team with at least 6 Red/Purple, which on it's own just may be devastating enough to turn the tides. That's the part that contributes the highest to my uncertainty. If they bring Thing, Rogue, or passive defensive abilities of the like, he gets even harder to take down. 

Bowgentle

Yes - GamBat is fun and opens up new team options.

He's the only thing that makes the grind in SSIM bearable right now.

That thread is almost as great as your "PVE is too easy" one.
Thanks. Not.

DAZ0273

Undecided - Greatness at the cost of only 4742 health on a 3*....I could go either way.

I can see how this might both appeal and annoy in equal measures. I actually like using 3* Gambit's active powers  and champed him as I want Rogue covers. Hopefully this will just be a fad and things will move on. Would be a shame if he was nerfed but I guess they could add a complication such as must be x amount of black on board before passive activates to try and slow him down.