S.H.I.E.L.D. Training, and 'Rogue and Friends' Vault (9/27/17)

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  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:
    mega ghost said: ... Rogue's release event is 'Hearts of Darkness', which is even more generous than most new character release events as they expanded her cover placement rewards to the top 200 [in SCL 9]. 
    Well said; but a key correction.
    Yeah, in 7 without the 5* node it's looking like where I'd normally easily get T20, I might be lucky to get T100.  Got 76 last time in SCL7 and releases (especially new characters that are popular) tend to be harder to get ranking.
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    edited September 2017
    mega ghost said:

    how is that type of gating any different from not being able to got top placement in a PvE because you're missing the required 4*, or better yet not being able to compete in a Crash of Titans node because you either don't have the 4* character or you do, but not at enough covers and levels to be able to compete?
    I think it depends on which nodes you're talking about - the ProfX/Cyke/Wolver nodes or the Rogue nodes. In either case, I don't think the PvE required nodes are a good analogy, since you only need a single cover to do them (and they give you one in the event itself). 

    I think Crash of the Titans is a much better example, at least for the PX/Cyke nodes. Someone argued on here that at least with Crash, you can still play the event with a single cover, but that argument doesn't really work for me since just being able to play with no chance to win (for non-invisibility characters) doesn't do much for me (YMMV). Another argument might be that you only need one character to do Crash, while you needed three at 209 to get the Rogue cover in this event. OTOH the Crash runs every five days, so you really need all of the 4*s levelled up if you want to always complete it. OTOOH, we get plenty of advance notice with the crash and know which characters are coming up so we can prepare whereas the X-Men nodes were sprung on us with no advance notice (an alarmingly common occurrence as of late), so we weren't able to prepare..

    As for the Rogue nodes, I don't know if the Crash example really works. I think what upsets a lot of people there is that there is no realistic way to get 13 covers for her in six days without spending money and that this kind of thing has never been done before in MPQ (the Star-Lord node in that GotG event only required a single cover, so a good number of players were able to do it) and represents an unwelcome precedent that they worry represents the future staus quo. At least with the Crash, they don't add the character to the cycle until everyone (other than newbies) has had ample opportunity to earn covers (how easy it is to earn enough to win the crash in the first go-round,  I don't know) Of course, for the other X-men nodes, you could make that same argument (people have had ample opportunity to earn covers), but that's a different tissue. 

    They may make more Rogue covers available in other events later this week, but if they did, that might make some people more upset (even if if they made it easy to get 13 covers for her - which of course they won't). 


  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    edited September 2017
    broll said:
    Yeah, in 7 without the 5* node it's looking like where I'd normally easily get T20, I might be lucky to get T100.  Got 76 last time in SCL7 and releases (especially new characters that are popular) tend to be harder to get ranking.
    At the risk of getting off topic, my experience in SCL 7 was completely different in event two than it was in event one. In Venom Bomb, I didn't play remotely optimally. I did my 5th and 6th clears 12 hours early and on the last night, I was too tired to finish off all my initial clears when the event started (I play 10 PM), so I went to bed and did them the next morning and/or at lunch. Prior to the 5* node, this would have killed any chance I had at finishing in the top 20, but this time I finished 20th.

    I though that that this was because I did the 5* node and meant that placement was suddenly going to suddenly become much easier if you had the required 5*. In Unstable ISO-8, however, I played only slightly sub-optimally, starting my final clears 90 minutes before the end and finishing with a half hour to spare rather that starting an hour or 45 minutes before the end like I normally do when shooting for top 10 (I was worried about the 5* nodes). And I finished 18th - just two places higher than in Venom Bomb, where I totally slacked. 

    Not sure why the difference (maybe it was those Mockingbird covers?) but now I'm betting I won't get top 20 in HOD and am starting to worry about top 100.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    I think placement is now being affected by RNG more than ever before.  If you don't have the 5* and you're in a bracket where a large percentage of players who do, you're boned... and there's not much you can do about it either...

    yay...
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 824 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    aesthetocyst said:
    mega ghost said: ... Rogue's release event is 'Hearts of Darkness', which is even more generous than most new character release events as they expanded her cover placement rewards to the top 200 [in SCL 9]. 
    Well said; but a key correction.
    Yeah, in 7 without the 5* node it's looking like where I'd normally easily get T20, I might be lucky to get T100.  Got 76 last time in SCL7 and releases (especially new characters that are popular) tend to be harder to get ranking.
    I can do SCL 8 but for a more relaxing game I'll do SCL 7. I'm not a hardcore player so my clears aren't that quick or that optimal and so I'll typically finish up in T200, but occasionally sneak into T100. But for release events, I typically can't even get a T200 spot.

    I only just recently learned what actually determines when you join a bracket, so I did something a little differently when I began Heart of Darkness, and even though I'm in an SCL 8 bracket, I'm deep inside T50 territory.
  • Trilateralus
    Trilateralus Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    mega ghost said:
    'S.H.I.E.L.D. Training' is entirely supplemental, it's a bonus. I completely understand being disappointed in not being able to achieve every single reward, or being prevented from getting her cover because you don't have your characters at the right levels, but how is that type of gating any different from not being able to got top placement in a PvE because you're missing the required 4*, or better yet not being able to compete in a Crash of Titans node because you either don't have the 4* character or you do, but not at enough covers and levels to be able to compete?
    It's different specifically because those other gates exist. Why did this event require not only a new gate but an additional gate? How long before this is implemented in existing events?
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    If I know that I can get a new release character for sure at launch if I have the majority of my roster leveled and covered.

    I'll take that option all day.


    I don't really understand what people want, it could have been iso instead or nothing....



  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    edited September 2017
    Ezrius said:
     Also, again, even a fully covered 4* for CoT is 13 specific covers and gives you a chance at a 5* cover.  This event requires a minimum of 30 for a 4*.
    A valid point, but as I mentioned earlier, in your example, those 13 covers would only allow you to compete in one CoT. CoT runs every five days, so to complete it every time would require that you have most of the older 4*s partiallly covered (how many covers you need depends on the character, opponent, your luck, and how many times you could tolerate trying).

    You could argue that this is a six-day event, so comparing to a single CoT is kosher, but I can't imagine this event is going to run every six days. So let's assume they  make this event a permanent thing for every 4* release. In that case, you'd need to have six specific 4*s covered every six weeks (three each for the 4*s and none for the 5* week). Under CoT, you'd need 8 or 9 specific 4*s covered during those six weeks to do them.  Of course, you wouldn't need 10 covers per character to do CoT (in rare cases, you'd only need one). Plus, if you had them all, you'd get 8 or 9 random 4/5* covers compared to two specific 4* covers under the new system. OTOH, the ones under the new system would be for a new 4* (I'll take 8 or 9 random ones over two new ones any day of the week but apparently some people place a large value on getting new characters covered quickly). And under CoT, you'd get one LT for every 4* you had sufficiently covered instead of having to have three just to get a single cover. 
     
    We also get advance notice of CoT, but they could follow a cycle for this event as well. And, as you said, you can at least try any CoT even with a single cover, though in many cases, it would be impossible to win for all practical purposes (Sure, you could get incredibly lucky with the tiles, but the odds of your getting lucky enough to win with a single cover, or in many cases even two or three or four, are virtually nil).

    So yes, I think CoT is a much better deal and not an entirely valid comparison, but I think it's a little closer than you indicated.

    Now if they ran this event for 5* releases and awarded a 5* cover for the 3x10 covers node, it might be a little better (and I'm actually curious as to how it would go over).
  • Felonius
    Felonius Posts: 289 Mover and Shaker
    edited September 2017

    I haven't read this whole thread, just the OP and scanned a couple pages in...  I've been on a break for a while now.  Barely/begrudgingly playing only DDQ a couple times a week.  Lockjaw is the first character in years that I haven't got at least one cover at new release.  I was sort of excited to catch wind of X-Men coming to MPQ, and I see Rogue is here, great!  Classic, no less, Sugah that totally reminds me of my childhood!  I was in!

    I even joined her PvE release and was planning to start the grind at 11p last night... Then I saw this new event, got even more excited... until I realized... SHIELD Training is a Pay Gated event. 

    Sigh.

    No thanks.  I just lost all interest in MPQ again.  That was a fast 15mins.  Even seeing Nightcrawler (another youth fav of mine) and Gambit are coming just isn't enough to make me want to get back to the game now. 

  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    thedarkphoenix said:

    I don't really understand what people want, it could have been iso instead or nothing....
    Well, what I want most is an explanation from the devs as to why they think a new form of gating off content is a good thing to add.  I'd even take an explanation as to why they don't think it good, but think it is a necessary evil, solving a problem that the types of gating that have existed for the past three years were incapable of solving, what that problem is, and why it needed solving.  
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    aesthetocyst said:
    mega ghost said: ... Rogue's release event is 'Hearts of Darkness', which is even more generous than most new character release events as they expanded her cover placement rewards to the top 200 [in SCL 9]. 
    Well said; but a key correction.
    You know, I could have sworn I'd selected a lower clearance level but that explains why it was harder than I expected.
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rather than quote several replies and in the interest of a shorter response:

    If the developers want to offer a one-size-fits-all bonus event that does not use SCL or placement to determine the rewards, then they need to do some sort of gating so that the rewards open to 5* roster players aren't the same as the rewards open to 2* roster players. Is this less than ideal design? Yes. Could it have been done better? Sure. Was this a last minute addition they decided to build and release right before the anniversary? Most likely. Am I glad that they decided to push it out for us rather than just skip it entirely, even if I couldn't get everything? You bet. I still got more than I would have with the status quo for new releases.


  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,397 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think (but correct me if I'm wrong -- this is mostly based on my personal view on this :P) that most people will not have too big of a problem with the bottom set of 'paygated' nodes, where you can earn extra goodies based on how much covers/levels your Rogue is. What's more of an issue is that this is a 'earn a cover for a new character'-event (of which they have run successful ones in the past) that has stupid/arbitrary additional requirements that probably 80% or more of the players can't even meet.
  • SolidusMox
    SolidusMox Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    I hate level gated events. I will not be renewing my VIP status. 
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2017
    astrp3 said:
    Felonius said:

    I haven't read this whole thread, just the OP and scanned a couple pages in...  I've been on a break for a while now.  Barely/begrudgingly playing only DDQ a couple times a week.  Lockjaw is the first character in years that I haven't got at least one cover at new release.  I was sort of excited to catch wind of X-Men coming to MPQ, and I see Rogue is here, great!  Classic, no less, Sugah that totally reminds me of my childhood!  I was in!

    I even joined her PvE release and was planning to start the grind at 11p last night... Then I saw this new event, got even more excited... until I realized... SHIELD Training is a Pay Gated event. 

    Sigh.

    No thanks.  I just lost all interest in MPQ again.  That was a fast 15mins.  Even seeing Nightcrawler (another youth fav of mine) and Gambit are coming just isn't enough to make me want to get back to the game now. 

    Not trying to be disrespectful here at all, Felonius, but for the life of me, I just can't understand this mindset. So if they hadn't added this event at all, you'd have played the release event, possibly enjoyed it thoroughly, Gotten one of your favorite characters and enjoyed it more. Then enjoyed it still more when they added Nightcrawler.  But you cut yourself off from all that enjoyment just because they paygated three CP and an LT??? 

    Then again, paygating doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother some people - at least not on this scale. I was actually surprised by how much they allowed FTP player to do in this game. I don't play a ton of mobile games, but the other "FTP" games I've played are far "worse" that MPQ, including entire characters, items (weapon packs, armor packs etc.), missions, etc. that you can only get by paying money. 

    In this event, there's nothing they're paygating that you can't get through other means with little to no effort. It's not like there's even any story content you're not getting to see (even the barely-existent, lackluster, repetitive story content of MPQ).

    Some might say "it's the principle of the thing" but what principle? The principle that an FTP game has to allow you to complete every piece of content and get every reward without paying? If so, you've got a different understanding of FTP than I do.  To me (and from what I've seen in other FTP games) FTP just means you can download the game and play some of the content without paying. Generally, when I see a game that claims to offer free play, I expect that I will be allowed to download the game and play a few training missions or some introductory content before getting pounded with the pay me hammer and being unable to advance any further.

    And have the devs ever claimed that MPQ was "free to play" (I honestly don't know)? 

    Don't get me wrong. I understand being upset that they're paygating something and that they're doing it in a way they have never done before. I get being upset about not being able to get the Rogue cover without having three level-209 characters (I'm missing out myself because I only have 7 covers on Professor X). I totally get newbies being upset when they see a shiny new event and can only play four missions for a measly 400 ISO. 

    What I don't get is the level of sheer rage some people seem driven to, to the point of calling the devs "scum" or quitting a game you otherwise enjoy. 
    This is exactly how i feel, in MPQ they actually provide alot of way to get things and play pretty consistently around the pay gate. 

    Its probably the best mobile game I've played when it comes to that and part of the reason i continue to play.


    There was a point when there was nothing to do with extra covers, no champs no deadpool daily and they didnt even give character or multiple rewards out for beating nodes.


    That fell in line with most of mobile F2P games, but they consistently provide ways to get and earn items and characters. 

    Yet people get upset and huffy at everything possible if its not just beat a node with decently scaled enemies.
  • sinburn
    sinburn Posts: 43 Just Dropped In
    Because of things like this, your company is a perfect example of F2P and game development went wrong. 

    If it isn't bugged already, it's you all being excited week after week about all the ways you are happy to rip off your player base and make them feel defeated rather than victorious  - even after years of playing. 

    When you go bankrupt and are forced to close, I am literally going to have a party to celebrate it. 
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    DeNappa said:
    I think (but correct me if I'm wrong -- this is mostly based on my personal view on this :P) that most people will not have too big of a problem with the bottom set of 'paygated' nodes, where you can earn extra goodies based on how much covers/levels your Rogue is. What's more of an issue is that this is a 'earn a cover for a new character'-event (of which they have run successful ones in the past) that has stupid/arbitrary additional requirements that probably 80% or more of the players can't even meet.
    People were definitely blowing up and employing histrionics about the bottom set of nodes, but when we found out that getting the Rogue cover had some roster requirements things went south fast. I don't sympathize with the former at all, but I do sympathize with the latter a little bit. I understand the disappointment. And if this were an isolated 'earn a cover for a new character'-event then I'd agree with you completely, but it's not, it's something new and different.

    The actual new character release event is 'Hearts of Darkness,' which is more generous than usual given the addition of SCL9. Starting tomorrow (October 1st) there will also be a run of 'Webbed Wonder,' in which Rogue will be a progression reward. And now we also have 'S.H.I.E.L.D. Training,' a new bonus event for those that can meet the requirements. So in reality this might be their most generous new character release to date, but based on everyone's reactions here you'd think they'd come for our firstborn in the night.
  • Moon Roach
    Moon Roach Posts: 2,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    In my bracket of SHIELD Training, the leader is on 6000 points and has a level 229 5/5/0 Rogue.  Second is on 5000 and has a level 127 0/5/0 Rogue.  I'm amazed that someone is disciplined (or rich) enough to have 2880 CP ready to buy 4 covers.  Doubly amazed at the leader.

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