**** Rogue (Classic) ****

Jaedenkaal

Rick OShay said:

I was surprised to hear that you would get 2x AP on a color that you have siphoned when destroyed in a line from a match-4. I have tested this to find out that is Not the case, although I understand your reasoning. 
Red was siphoned, I had a match-4 in purple that would destroy 1 red tile. I had 8 red prior to the match-4, and had only 9 red once the turn ended. I ensured that I still had red siphoned, so I just want people to be aware.
Dang, I had to wait for my next match to optic blast the enemy Cyclops in the face!

I believe this was initially possibly, and was quickly hotfixed or patched.

DrDevilDinosaur

Thanks to some lucky tokens draws and good rate on bonus heroes, I've got Rogue at 3/4/5 right now, and making my way through Shield Sim for that Green cover. I've put some ISO into her up to level 229 and started playing around with some various team compositions.

I had already toyed around with Rogue + Mockingbird, although the later is still woefully under-covered for me. It's shown some potential - enough that I've swapped my BH over to Bobbi. Rogue's damage reduction means that I'm generally happy to leave a match-4 in Red, Green or Yellow on the board for the AI. If I can Siphon Black, Blue, or Purple then that's a fourth colour that I can leave safely. There is a bit of conflict between the two for Red which requires a bit of analysis on my part to know which is best suited for the situation.

I've also toyed around with some damage reduction or multi-tank teams.

Rogue + Cage can really get incoming damage reduced to very low numbers. Take note: if the enemy fires a power which causes a R/G/Y match (either by cascade or tile swap) Rogue will jump to the front before Cage's passive kicks in - so if you're hoping to use him to reduce/remove enemy specials, that can be a bit annoying.

Rogue + Spider-Woman is mostly good. Again, Rogue will jump in front on RGY matches, even when Spider-Woman is Seeking Redemption with her black CD. There's still a lot of DR going on here. I added Peggy to this duo and it's a fairly solid team which has netted me some defensive victories in Sim already.

D4Ni13

DrDevilDinosaur said:

Rogue + Cage can really get incoming damage reduced to very low numbers. Take note: if the enemy fires a power which causes a R/G/Y match (either by cascade or tile swap) Rogue will jump to the front before Cage's passive kicks in - so if you're hoping to use him to reduce/remove enemy specials, that can be a bit annoying.

Rogue + Spider-Woman is mostly good. Again, Rogue will jump in front on RGY matches, even when Spider-Woman is Seeking Redemption with her black CD. There's still a lot of DR going on here. I added Peggy to this duo and it's a fairly solid team which has netted me some defensive victories in Sim already.

I'm not a fan of double-tank teams, because Rogue usually does her stuff pretty good. I found Rogue + C4ge to be tricky, especially if the enemy team wouldn't fire to many abilities. If you play Rogue's siphon to deny a crucial color for the AI, chances are they won't fire as many abilities as before, so C4ge would not do much. If you play Peggy, than you even more make the enemy delay or deny abilities. Moreso, if you don't have a special tile creator, C4ge cannot fire yellow and for 1-2 special tiles (if you really manage to get them on the board) it would be really undervalued for those 10AP. So from my personal experience, there are better partners for Rogue that would create protect tiles and make a better defence than C4ge. 

I didn't try Spider-Woman, but again, I feel that one wastes the opportunity for an offensive black, in the favor of a defensive one that won't trigger unless the enemy matches other than RGY. So, tricky as well. Also overlap on red, which wouldn't be a problem if one of the red was cheap, but both are very expensive. 

DrDevilDinosaur said:

I had already toyed around with Rogue + Mockingbird, although the later is still woefully under-covered for me. It's shown some potential - enough that I've swapped my BH over to Bobbi. Rogue's damage reduction means that I'm generally happy to leave a match-4 in Red, Green or Yellow on the board for the AI. If I can Siphon Black, Blue, or Purple then that's a fourth colour that I can leave safely. There is a bit of conflict between the two for Red which requires a bit of analysis on my part to know which is best suited for the situation.

I feel Mockingbird is a good partner for Rogue, and I would favor her red almost every time. The only moment when I would wait and use Rogue's red is when I want to remove something from the board. Hence if I want to remove Strange's Eye of Agamoto or other similar special tiles, that cannot be matched away, I would use Rogue. Interesting to test if Rogue can destroy Thanos purple CD, though it shouldn't. 

Wasp is another very good partner for Rogue, both on offense and defense. She can create at least 1 powerful protect tile that would really add up on defense, she has a good stun, and also a steal AP/damage ability with her blue. 

My BH is also Mockingbird, and once I'll manage to get her, I plan to play this 2 teams: Mockingbird, Carol, Rogue or Mockingbird, Wasp, Rogue. 

ammenell

really like rogue with Carol and 3* hulk... 

Dormammu

D4Ni13 said:
I'm not a fan of double-tank teams, because Rogue usually does her stuff pretty good. I found Rogue + C4ge to be tricky, especially if the enemy team wouldn't fire to many abilities. 

3cage works much better with his red set at 5.

D4Ni13

Rogue + Hulk + Mordo are a smash hit in the Hulk versus. Can get rid of about any team.

Of course, it helps a lot that they are boosted, but what I saw this event is that Rogue is a hard counter to Hulk. Just siphon green and you can ignore Hulk because he won't gather any AP. Or you can hit him and he would only feed you green.

Fought a lot of C4ge & Thing teams, and it was a blast every time. I prioritized green & purple, then blue & red. No one used black from the enemy team so it was safe to leave it, and yellow would only matter if there were specials on the board. I proceded to siphon Hulk and let him be. Match the black protect C4ge did after siphon and then focus The Thing until I got enough AP to down C4ge in 1-2 moves. After C4ge is down, Thing is just a matter of time (if not seconds - because you have lots of AP by now), and Hulk would be last. 

I also encountered variations with Cyclops4 instead of Thing, or Carol, or Mordo. They went in almost the same manner. 

I also encountered few Rogues, but really scarse for now. In a mirror match the strategy is to prioritize Rogue and down her with Siphon damage and/or another move if you have enough damage (might be hard because of the reduction) or just deny red (you already denied green for Hulk) and kill her allies, so she would reduce less when alone.

Point is 5-3-5 Rogue is very powerful in this event and made me take a couple of nukes in the face without even blinking (the biggest damage I took with her was 4k, that means she blocked a 16k nuke and made it almost a wet noodle).

Really enjoying my Rogue. And I feel that she could define part of the meta for next 1-2 seasons, at least in 4* land. She's maybe not great against Medusa or attack tile spammers, but if focused properly she can deal with them.

Dormammu

Yeah, she shines against one-color wonders like 3-star Hulk. 

Rick_OShay

@D4Ni13
Yep, just about the same here for Rogue vs Hulk teams. 
One thing I did differently, I let Hulk get a bunch of green, usually since he can get to 14+ after getting angry. The good thing is, he often can't use it until the next turn, so I be sure to have Mordo purple ready to hit hard, and reduce this green down below his 10 needed. That's around 19K damage for 9 purple. Now sure the enemy team may be gathering a bunch of other colors so you don't need to wait for green to accumulate (like black since Hulk goes for it as well but can't spend it). 
Then you can siphon green after this, or whatever timing makes sense once you've earned this big hit. As stated, if the enemy team has Rogue though, I'd siphon green asap so that she has a harder time using it against you. 

Lots of big enemy health pools in this Hulk PvP, so I've been trying to bring C4ge along with Rogue & Hulk for his big red hit. the 13 AP cost can be tough, but with all the Hulk board shake they usually become available more easily than an average match. And if the enemy team has a red-strongest user like Cyke, you can siphon that right when you have 7 red AP and an available match on the board (7 + 3x2 = 13) , or 1 just red where you need two red matches to get the 13.

zodiac339

She and Cage have been buddies for Top Gun. Just gently touch the enemy Falcon, the Heroes for Hire over and over once you get a bird strike off. Proccing enemy Cage passive isn’t even so bad if you get the blue for Redwing. Karma came for me though. First attack on me was a 0/5/5 5* Gambit and boosted Mordo. Skip!

ValekBoss

Interesting to test if Rogue can destroy Thanos purple CD, though it 

She cannot destroy it with her Red power...

ammenell

rogue, cd and vulture.
if i don't need to siphon a specific color, i take black if possible and let rogue blow up 3 times a match. 
costs a healthpack, but this is more fun and faster than I thought. 

D4Ni13

mexus said:

ammenell said:

rogue, cd and vulture.
if i don't need to siphon a specific color, i take black if possible and let rogue blow up 3 times a match. 
costs a healthpack, but this is more fun and faster than I thought. 

Might be a good strategy for boss fights but i wouldn't let her do that in a PVP climb for instance.
I mean if I really want a 13K nuke I have other options: Mockingbird, Carol, Luke Cage, Iron Fist.

Her self-harm is not that bad... I think you can let her explode 1-2 times per match in average. That would mean a health pack at 5 games maybe ? And when she's boosted you can let her explode more times a match for 27k damage. 

Also helpful that she won't take damage if she kills the last enemy, but may be corrected soon (Ares used to do the same and now he takes damage regardless).

I defeated the last req 5* mission in CL9 with Rogue exploading and reducing the income damage, along with Vulture & DD. It was a blast, and didn't lose too much damage despite exploding 2-3 times per match. 

Quebbster

My Rogue only has 12 covers, but right now I am using her over my many other maxchamped fourstars. Definitely a wrecking ball.

D4Ni13

mexus said:

D4Ni13 said:

Also helpful that she won't take damage if she kills the last enemy, but may be corrected soon (Ares used to do the same and now he takes damage regardless).

My Ares doesn't self-harm when he downs the last enemy using his yellow.
He's my only 2* champ and I use him a lot.

Are you sure ? He does self harm himself since 3 or 4 days or something like that. Did you used him this recent ?

D4Ni13

mexus said:

D4Ni13 said:

mexus said:

D4Ni13 said:

Also helpful that she won't take damage if she kills the last enemy, but may be corrected soon (Ares used to do the same and now he takes damage regardless).

My Ares doesn't self-harm when he downs the last enemy using his yellow.
He's my only 2* champ and I use him a lot.

Are you sure ? He does self harm himself since 3 or 4 days or something like that. Did you used him this recent ?

Actually my most recent memory of downing an enemy using Sunder goes back to last week. Will try this later in DDQ but if you're saying they "fixed" this then I have no reason to doubt that.

Unfortunately

Just ended this match: 

DrDevilDinosaur

I agree that her self damage is not as bad as some are making it out to be. But also aware that the ideal usage for Siphon seems to be targeting a colour that you want to spam. As long as you can keep that AP pool under the threshold, the extra AP and damage adds up fast. That said, if I can recast Siphon after it nukes down the target then I'll let her explode.

Rick_OShay

The Ares self harm on final enemy is real, been happening a lot this week and may have for a while.

Most enemies in this event have red as their strongest color, Rogue herself is making great use of her siphon to punch holes in the board, remove their specials, and down opponents. I don't want her to explode until the final enemy, mostly because I don't want to wait for the green to activate the siphon again. If I cascade into too much red and she blows up, that's OK too, she has good health.

Edit: Oh and another thing, I like the way that Rogue's red power tile destruction damage is dealt separately from the main power damage. Meaning, if you down an enemy with her 'Sugah punch', the 3x3 tile damage hits the 2nd enemy. So, you can purposefully separate this onto a 2nd enemy with very little health remaining, or have strikes out to deal a 2nd blow of decent damage to another opponent.

D4Ni13

Rick OShay said:

Edit: Oh and another thing, I like the way that Rogue's red power tile destruction damage is dealt separately from the main power damage. Meaning, if you down an enemy with her 'Sugah punch', the 3x3 tile damage hits the 2nd enemy. So, you can purposefully separate this onto a 2nd enemy with very little health remaining, or have strikes out to deal a 2nd blow of decent damage to another opponent.

Yes, her red is pretty good as a power for both damage and utility. My only gripe is that her other 2 abilities are too good to pass (at least for me), so I will always play her red at 3 covers, unfortunately. But objectively speaking it really is a great power, and if it were at 9AP range it would have been one of the best reds in 4* land. 

Spoit

I don't have her champed to check, but at 2x AP from siphon, I'm finding that 8AP is really the break point for it being effective as a feeder. You can tell when it's safe to match by the power availability (and cast it to spend it down). Any more than that, and it was finicky not going all the way to 14, and blowing the load before you can cast the power with the AP. Though that might change with the kind of overflow you'd get when a 3 match gives 9 AP, and it only eats 14 of your stock

Rick_OShay

Spoit said:

I don't have her champed to check, but at 2x AP from siphon, I'm finding that 8AP is really the break point for it being effective as a feeder. You can tell when it's safe to match by the power availability (and cast it to spend it down). Any more than that, and it was finicky not going all the way to 14, and blowing the load before you can cast the power with the AP. Though that might change with the kind of overflow you'd get when a 3 match gives 9 AP, and it only eats 14 of your stock

At 5 covers Rogue's green Siphon still only produces double AP. So a match 3 gives you 6 AP. It does triple Damage, so if each tile is worth 85, it would do 765 damage instead of just 255 for the color.

Managing the siphon can be tricky, but I suggest that you don't cast it right away. If you have 8 AP in the color already you probably should not siphon until you've used that color's power out normally, or just accept the siphon damage.  If I have 3 AP in that color already, I generally try to get one more normal match which gets you up to 6, then siphon and make a following match which takes you safely up to 12.