**** Rogue (Classic) ****

Jaedenkaal

mexus said:

In addition to attack/knuckle tiles hitting her for full damage also attacks that target a random enemy hits her with full damage.

Sure. Even if she's in front? ( I mean, she's not losing anything in that case either, everyone else takes full damage from randomly-target powers too)

zodiac339

mexus said:

In addition to attack/knuckle tiles hitting her for full damage also attacks that target a random enemy hits her with full damage.

Hang on. If she’s in front with yellow at 4 or 5, does a random target power still have full effect? It should still lessen the damage of the power if she’s in front, regarless of who it actually hits, and only do full damage to her if she’s in the 2nd or 3rd spot and it randomly hits her.

Jaedenkaal

zodiac339 said:

Hang on. If she’s in front with yellow at 4 or 5, does a random target power still have full effect? It should still lessen the damage of the power if she’s in front, regarless of who it actually hits, and only do full damage to her if she’s in the 2nd or 3rd spot and it randomly hits her.

Not necessarily. Randomly-targetted powers might skip the isInFront check, since it doesn't matter.

zodiac339

Jaedenkaal said:

zodiac339 said:

Hang on. If she’s in front with yellow at 4 or 5, does a random target power still have full effect? It should still lessen the damage of the power if she’s in front, regarless of who it actually hits, and only do full damage to her if she’s in the 2nd or 3rd spot and it randomly hits her.

Not necessarily. Randomly-targetted powers might skip the isInFront check, since it doesn't matter.

Well, don’t have her Champed yet (soon!). Maybe it only affects single target powers. The way I read it, I took it to mean that any power (targeted, AOE, random) would be reduced as long as she’s in front, rather than just damage that targets her. I’ll have to check it out against some AOE powers after I get her 13th cover from Simulator. Sooooon!

Rick_OShay

I'd be quite worried if attack tiles hit her if she wasn't in front. 
Ha! I actually think Moonsilver Blades randomly hit her while in front and she reduced the damage. Will need to test on random powers to be sure.

Oh, and if you make a match containing a charged tile in a color that she has power siphoned, do you earn 10AP? 

Jaedenkaal

Rick OShay said:

Oh, and if you make a match containing a charged tile in a color that she has power siphoned, do you earn 10AP? 

You sure do. And the enemy team still gets 0. There's a profit combo here with Riri, I'm sure of it.

D4Ni13

All this talk of Rogue makes me sad because I have her at 5-5-2 and have 3 covers on the vine... Would I ask too much on a yellow cover ?

I could've done some tests, but 2 yellow covers are not enough...

Jaedenkaal

D4Ni13 said:

All this talk of Rogue makes me sad because I have her at 5-5-2 and have 3 covers on the vine... Would I ask too much on a yellow cover ?

I could've done some tests, but 2 yellow covers are not enough...

My 0/2/4 Rogue is envious of yours. Although, somehow I actually got 3 of those covers today. So maybe she'll get moving pretty quick.  

D4Ni13

Jaedenkaal said:

D4Ni13 said:

All this talk of Rogue makes me sad because I have her at 5-5-2 and have 3 covers on the vine... Would I ask too much on a yellow cover ?

I could've done some tests, but 2 yellow covers are not enough...

My 0/2/4 Rogue is envious of yours. Although, somehow I actually got 3 of those covers today. So maybe she'll get moving pretty quick.  

I had a mini hoard just for her, that's why she's like that. Hope to get her a yellow in the next 10 days, or I would have to lose 3 covers.

1 green you can get from sim, so you have 1/2/4 guaranteed at least.

D4Ni13

mexus said:

I still haven't managed to get her in front when a random-hitting attack hits. 
But I've bashed Rogue too much now I feel; siphon is hard to manage, expensive red, slow recovery rate, taking full damage from attack tiles etc. etc. Today I'm positive. It's Friday and I'm having pizza later.
One thing that is very good is that she doesn't self-harm if the siphon goes off killing the last standing enemy. A bit like Ares yellow; if you fire it to down the last enemy you don't take damage.

She also have perfect hair.

I don't find her Siphon to be hard to manage at all. Yes, you have to be careful to not gather too much AP, but most often you can manage to gather the right amount. Also 3-5-5 might the best choice if you don't plan to deal the damage (would also help with controling the AP gathered - double instead of triple). 

D4Ni13

mexus said:

It's actually double AP for both 3 and 5 covers. What changes is the match damage (double at 3 covers, triple at 5 covers). I have her set at 3 / 5 / 5 since I champed her since I always aim to not let the siphon explode - but it does anyway from time to time. As previously mentioned it's really hard to monitor the AP gainings so they don't go over the limit if you already have a few AP in that color before the siphon activates.
My example:
"Let's say you already have 2 AP in the pool - (activates )siphon (double AP for that color) - makes  a  match (+6 AP) - you land on 8 AP. Now you want to make one more match to get that 10 AP skill going so you make a match, gain another 6 AP - boom there goes the siphon and Rogue gets hurt and the AP you collected is drained."

Yes, it could happen. But instead you could wait for a 4-match that has a red on the line/column. By getting that you get double AP, so 2 AP, reaching 10. Also, you can wait a bit and activate the siphon after you have a more manageable AP. So insted of activating it at 2 AP, you make the match (get to 5) and then activate the siphon. Another normal match would take you to 11 AP, so again safe. You remain with 1 AP if you cast a 10 AP ability and with 2 matches you would reach 13, which is also safe. So you may plan ahead according to the board somewhat. 

Another strategy that I use, is gain the color I want to siphon and when I'm close to firing it, I siphon, make the last match, and I know for sure that it will explode on the next turn. 

So it's pretty flexible according to what you want from it. It goes wrong sometimes too. But it is manageable most of the time. And it is also very thematic. Rogue absorbs the powers of other but cannot fully control what she absorbs. 

D4Ni13

Ok, so I managed to champ Rogue today and I made some tests. Here are the conclusions:

She can reduce 75% of damage from tile damage and powers when in front, so a 5 in yellow is most times indicated. Really nice feeling when you only take 2500 damage instead of 10000.

If she is in front she will reduce AoE damage for herself as well. Khamala Khan hit my team for 4k AoE, Rogue took only 1k, the other allies the full damage. 

Could not test if random power is the same, but it should, because she reduces all powers, including passives (Dr Strange deals only 25% damage when Rogue is in front and has 2 active allies)

You can play her in 2 ways: nuke mode - 5/3/5, or utility mode - 3/5/5.

Pro & Cons between the 2:
Siphon is a really strong ability for both utility & damage. If you plan to never activate the damage component and only act as a battery & color denial, then 3/5/5 is the way to go. Just make sure you are the only red user if you go this route. If you have a stronger red user or Gambit, then 5/3/5 is the way to go. 

Gambit passively feeds Siphon if you activated on a red strong color, and it will deal damage, because it is a passive, and Gambit do not block passives. So if you have Bl4de, IM40, Rulk or Mockingbird in the enemy team, then you can play the nuke game with Gambit & Rogue and deal 13k damage every 2-3 turns or so, depending on how much red you actively gather besides Gambit's trait.

She also works well with St4r-Lord. They have board removal, color denial, AP reduction, good punch with red, and a great defence.

Her red is pretty good as utility, regardless of covers. The difference in damage is only 4.5k and will matter only if you think you will deal more damage with red than green. I had matches when I was 5/3/5 and used her red 3 times, and no green damage, and I also had games when I was 3/5/5 and used her nuke more times than red. So planning ahead is required to make the most out it. 

My prefered build is 5/3/5, simply because her red is expensive and while I can get the utility at 3 covers, the damage I would gain at 5 covers is weaker than most other red abilities in 4* land. On the other hand her green is better set at 5, even if there will be games in which you'll never use the damage component. Those times when you do want to use the nuke would be crucial, and not having enough damage, while also self harming yourself, would make you mad.

Black Duke

D4Ni13 said:

Ok, so I managed to champ Rogue today and I made some tests. Here are the conclusions:

She can reduce 75% of damage from tile damage and powers when in front, so a 5 in yellow is most times indicated. Really nice feeling when you only take 2500 damage instead of 10000.

If she is in front she will reduce AoE damage for herself as well. Khamala Khan hit my team for 4k AoE, Rogue took only 1k, the other allies the full damage. 

Could not test if random power is the same, but it should, because she reduces all powers, including passives (Dr Strange deals only 25% damage when Rogue is in front and has 2 active allies)

You can play her in 2 ways: nuke mode - 5/3/5, or utility mode - 3/5/5.

Pro & Cons between the 2:
Siphon is a really strong ability for both utility & damage. If you plan to never activate the damage component and only act as a battery & color denial, then 3/5/5 is the way to go. Just make sure you are the only red user if you go this route. If you have a stronger red user or Gambit, then 5/3/5 is the way to go. 

Gambit passively feeds Siphon if you activated on a red strong color, and it will deal damage, because it is a passive, and Gambit do not block passives. So if you have Bl4de, IM40, Rulk or Mockingbird in the enemy team, then you can play the nuke game with Gambit & Rogue and deal 13k damage every 2-3 turns or so, depending on how much red you actively gather besides Gambit's trait.

She also works well with St4r-Lord. They have board removal, color denial, AP reduction, good punch with red, and a great defence.

Her red is pretty good as utility, regardless of covers. The difference in damage is only 4.5k and will matter only if you think you will deal more damage with red than green. I had matches when I was 5/3/5 and used her red 3 times, and no green damage, and I also had games when I was 3/5/5 and used her nuke more times than red. So planning ahead is required to make the most out it. 

My prefered build is 5/3/5, simply because her red is expensive and while I can get the utility at 3 covers, the damage I would gain at 5 covers is weaker than most other red abilities in 4* land. On the other hand her green is better set at 5, even if there will be games in which you'll never use the damage component. Those times when you do want to use the nuke would be crucial, and not having enough damage, while also self harming yourself, would make you mad.

Thanks for this great post!

Just a little addition for my part:
The Gambit/Rogue combo does also work well when the enemies´ strongest colour is purple. I have used Rogue´s Gloves Off on a level 315 2* Bullseye in TaT, Gambit fed her with purple AP and two turns later she downed poor Bullseye (who was still at full health) with her Power Siphon.

zodiac339

Been enjoying my fresh Champed Southern Belle in Strange Days. Flames of Faltine is acceptable damage to the face when she uses Power Siphon on him for faster Crimson Bands uses or on Carol so Kate can Look for Trouble over, and over, and over again. I should set her 3/5/5 though, since I won’t let her explode.

D4Ni13

zodiac339 said:

Been enjoying my fresh Champed Southern Belle in Strange Days. Flames of Faltine is acceptable damage to the face when she uses Power Siphon on him for faster Crimson Bands uses or on Carol so Kate can Look for Trouble over, and over, and over again. I should set her 3/5/5 though, since I won’t let her explode.

Been doing the same, but I play her with Star-Lord and use Siphon to deny blue.

Black Duke said:

D4Ni13 said:

Ok, so I managed to champ Rogue today and I made some tests. Here are the conclusions:

She can reduce 75% of damage from tile damage and powers when in front, so a 5 in yellow is most times indicated. Really nice feeling when you only take 2500 damage instead of 10000.

If she is in front she will reduce AoE damage for herself as well. Khamala Khan hit my team for 4k AoE, Rogue took only 1k, the other allies the full damage. 

Could not test if random power is the same, but it should, because she reduces all powers, including passives (Dr Strange deals only 25% damage when Rogue is in front and has 2 active allies)

You can play her in 2 ways: nuke mode - 5/3/5, or utility mode - 3/5/5.

Pro & Cons between the 2:
Siphon is a really strong ability for both utility & damage. If you plan to never activate the damage component and only act as a battery & color denial, then 3/5/5 is the way to go. Just make sure you are the only red user if you go this route. If you have a stronger red user or Gambit, then 5/3/5 is the way to go. 

Gambit passively feeds Siphon if you activated on a red strong color, and it will deal damage, because it is a passive, and Gambit do not block passives. So if you have Bl4de, IM40, Rulk or Mockingbird in the enemy team, then you can play the nuke game with Gambit & Rogue and deal 13k damage every 2-3 turns or so, depending on how much red you actively gather besides Gambit's trait.

She also works well with St4r-Lord. They have board removal, color denial, AP reduction, good punch with red, and a great defence.

Her red is pretty good as utility, regardless of covers. The difference in damage is only 4.5k and will matter only if you think you will deal more damage with red than green. I had matches when I was 5/3/5 and used her red 3 times, and no green damage, and I also had games when I was 3/5/5 and used her nuke more times than red. So planning ahead is required to make the most out it. 

My prefered build is 5/3/5, simply because her red is expensive and while I can get the utility at 3 covers, the damage I would gain at 5 covers is weaker than most other red abilities in 4* land. On the other hand her green is better set at 5, even if there will be games in which you'll never use the damage component. Those times when you do want to use the nuke would be crucial, and not having enough damage, while also self harming yourself, would make you mad.

Thanks for this great post!

Just a little addition for my part:
The Gambit/Rogue combo does also work well when the enemies´ strongest colour is purple. I have used Rogue´s Gloves Off on a level 315 2* Bullseye in TaT, Gambit fed her with purple AP and two turns later she downed poor Bullseye (who was still at full health) with her Power Siphon.

You are right. Didn't think about it when I wrote that post, but purple works as well.

Rick_OShay

Champed Rogue today and I completely agree with what has been stated so far. 
Her build should certainly be determined by the enemy team you are facing, by looking at what strongest colors they have. 
I'm usually 3/5/5 since I'm planning to use her red quite a bit while she's shiny and new. Also, I plan most battles so that I don't want her siphon explosion to happen. She sure deflects a lot of damage overall, but she takes most of the match damage during the fight. I don't need her losing more health by blowing her up too often. 

Now, when running her with a boosted 4* who has quite high match damage, changing the spec to 5/3/5 makes a lot of sense due to the triple match damage on a siphoned color. That adds up a whole lot depending on the match and characters. 
For example, in the Thor / Sakaar LR's, using her with a strong 4* Thoress, matches on siphoned red really add up. And the bonus: If you have a match including a charged red tile, that's 5AP x2 = 10, meaning you can Smite again after just 1 red match. Incredible.

D4Ni13

Update: Rogue does reduce damage from random targeting abilities (Bl4de did less damage to her). 

TU ability damage suffers from the same effect as attack tiles: it doesn't belong to the enemy. So if it doesn't belong to the enemy it is not reduced. 

Rick_OShay

Aha, that is very good to know, especially when facing against Rogue. Similar to Peggy in the way that she doesn't increase the cost of TU powers against her. 

And I can't wait for the day that I experience the 33.3% chance that Rogue-in-front reduces Moonsilver Blades by 75%, ha.

D4Ni13

Rick OShay said:

Aha, that is very good to know, especially when facing against Rogue. Similar to Peggy in the way that she doesn't increase the cost of TU powers against her. 

And I can't wait for the day that I experience the 33.3% chance that Rogue-in-front reduces Moonsilver Blades by 75%, ha.

Every power reduced is like eating a piece of cake. Feels soooo good. 

Rick_OShay

D4Ni13 said:

mexus said:

...."

Yes, it could happen. But instead you could wait for a 4-match that has a red on the line/column. By getting that you get double AP, so 2 AP, reaching 10. Also, you can wait a bit and activate the siphon after you have a more manageable AP. So insted of activating it at 2 AP, you make the match (get to 5) and then activate the siphon. Another normal match would take you to 11 AP, so again safe. You remain with 1 AP if you cast a 10 AP ability and with 2 matches you would reach 13, which is also safe. So you may plan ahead according to the board somewhat. 

Another strategy that I use, is gain the color I want to siphon and when I'm close to firing it, I siphon, make the last match, and I know for sure that it will explode on the next turn. 

So it's pretty flexible according to what you want from it. It goes wrong sometimes too. But it is manageable most of the time. And it is also very thematic. Rogue absorbs the powers of other but cannot fully control what she absorbs. 

I was surprised to hear that you would get 2x AP on a color that you have siphoned when destroyed in a line from a match-4. I have tested this to find out that is Not the case, although I understand your reasoning. 
Red was siphoned, I had a match-4 in purple that would destroy 1 red tile. I had 8 red prior to the match-4, and had only 9 red once the turn ended. I ensured that I still had red siphoned, so I just want people to be aware.
Dang, I had to wait for my next match to optic blast the enemy Cyclops in the face!
@D4Ni13