**** Rogue (Classic) ****

D4Ni13

vinsensual said:

The good defensive abilities are the ones that circumvent shield tiles and do their own thing, like percentage damage reduction with Spiderwoman.  Cutting the damage of a 5* ability in half or 75% is strong. 

I think it is only 50%. The text says for every teammate, similar to Old Man Logan's heal. Or am I wrong ?

fork1977

It's 50%.  25% for each teammate

fork1977

I have WAY underestimated how useful Rogue is, and I must give a serious hat tip to D3 for the design.  

First, she is the only true AP inhibitor in the game.  Hood, Loki, KP, Rhulk and others can steal AP, and Jean, Widow and others can destroy it. Only Rogue stops one color from entirely being usable by the enemy team.  This ability alone makes her worth playing, but because D3 combined it with her other ability, she becomes both an AP inhibitor and AP accelerator, the only one who occupies both those roles (I see Rhulk as something different since he trades AP of one color for another, but there is an argument made for him (and possibly Iceman), too). That she can do so in one ability for 5AP is astounding.  And unlike any other AP accelerator, her ability lasts for that color until she either hits 14AP and explodes for 13K or is downed.  And with ~32k HP when boosted that is hard to do.

She is one of those toons you will not enjoy facing, especially if you do not use green, simply because she can neuter the primary attack for so many teams, all for 5AP.  I've gone whole fights watching the AI make multiple matches in their strongest color for zero effect.  Pair this with C&D or Iceman or anyone else who changes the board to that color and you are putting them in a box where they get only match damage.  It's so nice to see.

And the damage reduction is significant.  Every time you try to nuke her, unless she is in back, she takes half the damage until you down teammates.  She creates so many unpleasant choices.  Make every green match just to stop her from oublietting your highest color? Watch as your match and focus fire damage glances off her for 50% (cause she's going to be in front a fair amount)? There are definite counters, but man, what a great design.

And then her red generates AP and allows you a 3x3 hole and shuffle.  Yeah, it's pricey but a very good offensive third power.

And these powers so nicely work with her character.  They require some thought but not a ton.  Yet those with intimate knowledge of the game will benefit by strategically pairing her with someone who uses the enemies best color.  

She's stellar.  The biggest downside so far is that she needs health packs.  She takes a lot of hits.  

D4Ni13

fahq1977 said:

And unlike any other AP accelerator, her ability lasts for that color until she either hits 14AP and explodes for 13K or is downed.  And with ~32k HP when boosted that is hard to do.

Haven't thought about this yet, but boosted she would do 26k damage for her nuke (on top of the color blocking). I hardly wait to have her. 

fahq1977 said:

She's stellar.  The biggest downside so far is that she needs health packs.  She takes a lot of hits.  

Well, she has to have a weak point somewhere. And the need of health packs is somewhat thematic, as Rogue is a very turmoiled hero, often thinking to 'get cured' of her powers. I guess I like this kind of characters with struggles from within.

himatako

hopper1979 said:

geno685 it will all depend on when the 3X is applied, the same question need to be checked for Vision (I know nobody uses him) and possibly Mr. Fantastic with his black out (I would have to reread that power).  Does the 3x occur then the extra damage is applied or does the damage occur than it is tripled, the second is definitely the preferred option.  I think Thanos is the easiest to answer of the three I mentioned his pink does 80% more damage, this occurs at match than the 3x would be applied.  I am have not tested it yet but the order or operations has no effect on the the buffs in this case since they are both multiplications.  As I said she will be the third on a lot of 5 star teams from this point forward just for the match damage benefit alone.

Vision's power adds a constant bonus after the match damage is calculated and count as one attack, I think. For Mr. F, the damage from Imaginaut is considered an additional attack separated from the match damage.

As for Thanos, his power says "deals an extra X% damage". So I did a few tests as follow:

== TEST 1 ==
Conditions

• Thanos makes a black match ( 3 tiles)
• Thanos' purple at 4 cover (extra 200% damage)

Results

• Black Tile Damage = 85
• Black Match Damage = 255
• Actual Match Damage = 765

== TEST 2 ==

Conditions

• Thanos makes a black match ( 3 tiles)
• Thanos' purple at 4 cover (extra 200% damage)
• Rogue's Power Siphon activated (black)

Results

• Black Tile Damage = 85
• Black Match Damage = 255
• Actual Match Damage = 765

== TEST 3 ==


Conditions

• Thanos makes a black match ( 3 tiles)
• Thanos' purple at 5 cover (extra 260% damage)
• Rogue's Power Siphon activated (black)
• One friendly strike tile out (strength 239)

Results

• Black Tile Damage = 85
• Black Match Damage = 255
• Actual Match Damage = 1157

From the tests above, the calculation seems to be like this.

match damage(no strike tile)base match damage + (base match damage * max(multipliers)) = 

Applies this formula to each test, and we'll get:

Test 1

> 255 + (255 * max(2)) = 765
> 255 + (255 * 2) = 765

Test 2

> 255 + (255 * max(2,2)) = 765
> 255 + (255 * 2) = 765

Test 3
For test 3, we need to subtract the strike tile first. We'll get

1157 - 239 = 918

So our match damage without strike tiles is 918. 

> 255 + (255 * max(2,2.6)) = 918
> 255 + (255 * 2.6) = 918

From this, there are at least 2 possibilities that I can think of:
1. The multipliers aren't stacked, but only the maximum one will be chosen and applied to the calculation.
2. Damage calculation of Thanos' power overwrites Rogue's Power Siphon's. I cannot confirm this, but in test 3 I used Rogue's green first, then Thanos' purple. 

In any case, the multipliers aren't stacked for now. 

himatako

As for Rouge, I ran into a situation where both you and your opponent use Gloves off on the same color. Nobody can gain AP in that color, and there is no way for Rogue to fire off her Power Siphon. Unless you have an alternative way to gain AP in that color, consider that color out of the game until either Rogue's downed lol.

D4Ni13

mexus said:

When do you think Rogue enter the tokens?
Thursday?
Or start at next proper season?
Would be poop having to sit tight on my CP and tokens during the anniversary!

I'm with you... but I am sceptical

bluewolf

mexus said:

When do you think Rogue enter the tokens?
Thursday?
Or start at next proper season?
Would be poop having to sit tight on my CP and tokens during the anniversary!

My guess is next proper season. I assume they want to encourage spending on Rogue, who has been highly anticipated - hence the vault.  Also, if she stays locked until 10/19, that heightens her desirability as a hard to get character and makes bragging rights better for those who whale her.

Jaedenkaal

himatako said:

As for Rouge, I ran into a situation where both you and your opponent use Gloves off on the same color. Nobody can gain AP in that color, and there is no way for Rogue to fire off her Power Siphon. Unless you have an alternative way to gain AP in that color, consider that color out of the game until either Rogue's downed lol.

Strictly speaking, you could use a "gain AP" ability to gain the 14 AP. Oh, does power siphon stop (pause) when Rogue is stunned? If so, that's an option too.

Rick_OShay

Confirming that Power Siphon pauses as expected when Rogue is stunned. 
It's been excellent so far running Rogue with C4rol in the Close Contact PvP.  If enemy Carol has their team's strongest color, black, then be sure to get the gloves off on her as soon as possible. Then, when enemy Carol makes a black match, it does no match damage, gains them no AP, and your Carol's passive Energy Manipulation does it's thing. 
As stated, Mockingbird works great as a teammate - using her purple allows you to build additional black (if it's your strongest color), for example, without making your own black matches. 
Very fun mechanic to study and implement powers based on each of the enemy team's strongest colors. 

Dragon_Nexus

Is anyone slightly creeped out by her outstretched hand?
Its like...really detailed. Almost fetishistically detailed.

Anon

I really can't contain how excited I am that Rogue is in the game. I have her 1/1/0 and use her for every other battle, whether or not she's up to it.

I've been waiting 3 years for Rogue. Better believe I'm using her!

D4Ni13

Anon said:

I really can't contain how excited I am that Rogue is in the game. I have her 1/1/0 and use her for every other battle, whether or not she's up to it.

I've been waiting 3 years for Rogue. Better believe I'm using her!

At least you have that darn green cover. I have a 0-1-2 and would get to 0-2-2 with Webbed Wonder. That green really makes her worthwhile.

Anon

D4Ni13 said:

Anon said:

I really can't contain how excited I am that Rogue is in the game. I have her 1/1/0 and use her for every other battle, whether or not she's up to it.

I've been waiting 3 years for Rogue. Better believe I'm using her!

At least you have that darn green cover. I have a 0-1-2 and would get to 0-2-2 with Webbed Wonder. That green really makes her worthwhile.

Yeah she isn't doing eye popping damage yet, but her ap denial and accelerating is really useful. Honestly doing the Shield Training I was praying it wouldn't be her Yellow. It's not a bad power, but having that be your first cover for her would really suck.

Also holy **** dude 3 covers already?

D4Ni13

Anon said:

D4Ni13 said:

Anon said:

I really can't contain how excited I am that Rogue is in the game. I have her 1/1/0 and use her for every other battle, whether or not she's up to it.

I've been waiting 3 years for Rogue. Better believe I'm using her!

At least you have that darn green cover. I have a 0-1-2 and would get to 0-2-2 with Webbed Wonder. That green really makes her worthwhile.

Yeah she isn't doing eye popping damage yet, but her ap denial and accelerating is really useful. Honestly doing the Shield Training I was praying it wouldn't be her Yellow. It's not a bad power, but having that be your first cover for her would really suck.

Also holy tinykitty dude 3 covers already?

I ended #29 in CL9 in Hearts of Darkness (so I won 2 covers there), and the third is from her PvP 900 checkpoint, which was the only thing I focused in that event. Now I hope I get lucky like others and pull that 1 green cover from her vault. With the progression cover from Webbed Wonder, I would go to 5, and soon as she enters the tokens I can use my small hoard (which I began collecting just after she came into the game). 

As you can tell I REALLY WANT HER  

(And I didn't have the level requirement to get a cover from Training Shield). 

Tiger_Wong

I’ve got her at 1/2/3. That double AP is beyond amazing. I run her with 2* Magneto and 4* Cyclops in PVE vs teams with yelena and/or bullseye to double and deny purple. I forget that they don’t even do damage if they happen get a purple match. So that’s purple that does nothing, and less damage with red, yellow, and green matches. A match-4 gives me enough AP to fire mags polarity shift. 

And dont underestimate her yellow passive. You’re minizing 40% of all damage from 3 colors. She keeps your weaker guys of similar colors alive for a long time. I’m looking forward to getting it to 4 covers to hold off powers too.

Tiger_Wong

Yeah. If they fire a red, yellow, or green power, she steps in front and mitigates the damage. It doesn’t affect attack tiles or passive damage though.

Rick_OShay

As long as she's in front, Rogue will block the % listed of all color matches and powers.
Keep in mind that enemies fire powers before making a move, so if you have a power incoming at you, you'll need to make a match in her color to ensure she's in front. 
Otherwise, all enemy matches in green, red, or yellow send her up front to take/reduce that match damage.  

fork1977

Tiger Wong said:

Yeah. If they fire a red, yellow, or green power, she steps in front and mitigates the damage. It doesn’t affect attack tiles or passive damage though.

This is not accurate.  She steps in front if the opponent makes a red yellow or green MATCH.  Unless rogue is ALREADY in front before the enemies turn, she has no effect on a fired power, regardless of the color.  Since the turn is over after a non-match 5, the opponent will almost always fire powers first, which means rogue is ONLY able to reduce power damage if you made a match that put her in front.

She WILL cut any red, yellow or green match damage in half as long as two teammates are up and you have her fully covered in yellow.  That helps, but is not great.  As Himatako showed, it doesn't nerf strike tiles..  

But her true strength in yellow is 4 or 5 covers and matching strategically when the AI is ready to fire a power.

D4Ni13

mexus said:

I have a problem with her yellow passive:
"Reduces enemy power and match damage"

Enemy power, AND match damage?
Does it reduce enemy power damage? Enemy power as in enemy skill / special attack / whatever? AND match damage?

Yes. Exactly as Colossus, but hers is a passive and should have a lot more uptime.