A Truly Generous Gift... Oh Wait... Nevermind

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  • Lagartha
    Lagartha Posts: 186 Tile Toppler
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    shteev said:
    Lagartha said:
     You guys can all have my Sunder. I can't fathom ever using it. =/
    I'll swap you for my Counterspell.
    Unfortunately, that's also one of my 4 total Masterpieces. You can have that one too. I don't even need anything in return. If I could trade them for runes that I don't even need, I probably would. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    babar3355 said:

    Alright Ohboy you win. D3 is a shining beacon of generosity and competence.

    I now remember why I don't bother reading 99% of what you post.  Trolls gonna troll.


    That's not what I said. At all. 

    Stop moving the goal posts. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Mainloop25 said:
    Of course they don't owe it to us, but the lack of good will shown by taking away a gift and calling it a mistake... You don't see how that can rub people the wrong way? Really?? Are you middle management in a corporation? 

    That said, I'm perfectly happy with the 50 crystals they just gave us to apologize for the apology. However, if those 50 crystals were to suddenly disappear, I would feel perfectly justified in slinging mud at them. 

    There's a difference between a PR mistake and being greedy. I've already said it was a PR mistake. But one does not call people greedy when they refuse to give out free stuff. I thought that was manners 101, but barbar is teaching me some people missed that class. 

    This was a misstep from the powers that be, but the reaction from barbar was just ugly. Both happened. 
  • Pcell777
    Pcell777 Posts: 51 Match Maker
    edited August 2017
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    How about this analogy.

    A delivery truck carrying boxes of sneakers heading to your local Foot Locker store had an accident and flipped over.  Sneaker boxes scattered all over the road. Bystanders, some were your friends, quickly grabbed  some boxes and ran.  He called you on the phone saying "Hurry,  come get free sneakers!" But when you arrived at the scene, Foot Locker staffs have already secured the remaining sneakers and put them on another delivery truck.

    Now, you are shouting at them, "Greedy bastards, give me those sneakers!"  

    Who is the greedy one here?
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
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    Pcell777 said:
    How about this analogy.

    A delivery truck carrying boxes of sneakers heading to your local Foot Locker store had an accident and flipped over.  Sneaker boxes scattered all over the road. Bystanders, some were your friends, quickly grabbed  some boxes and ran.  He called you on the phone saying "Hurry,  come get free sneakers!" But when you arrived at the scene, Foot Locker staffs have already secured the remaining sneakers and put them on another delivery truck.

    Now, you are shouting at them, "Greedy bastards, give me those sneakers!"  

    Who is the greedy one here?


    That's a terrible analogy.

    A gift was delivered to everyone's inbox.  It was a mistake.  Some players collected the gift.  D3H now approached a fork in the road:

    1. Let all players keep the gifts.

    2. Pull the unclaimed gifts from the players that did not claim it.


    Choosing path #1 would guarantee everyone is happy and on a level footing.  Since it is an underwhelming Elite pack rotation, you're not flooding players' libraries with anything OP.

    Choosing path #2 would create an imbalance in the situation:  Some players were rewarded, and the rest were left in the dust.  While the players who received the pack are personally satisfied, the players who missed out are upset that the opportunity was clawed back before they could grasp it.


    The problem is this:  D3H could have chosen either path.  They chose Path #2.  That is the only issue here.  The decision they made wasn't a very generous one, it was more of a damage control one.  They did not see the accidental reward for players as an unintentional boon for the community, they in fact saw it as damaging their economy or their "state of the game".

    So how does that make us feel?  Well, it's more important to keep us in check than to distribute spontaneous gifts.  Guess what, that is where all the disappointment is coming from.  Not pettiness, not entitlement, and not greed.

  • Pcell777
    Pcell777 Posts: 51 Match Maker
    edited August 2017
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    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



  • Marvaddin
    Marvaddin Posts: 129 Tile Toppler
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    Ok, let's suppose D3H had these options, and chose not to give for free something they can sell. Would giving it damage their income? Probably not. This puts players that got the item in an unfair advantage over others? No. Did they waste a chance to make people happy, and instead some people are angry? Well, maybe.

    But sincerely, I'm mostly impressed by how some people can react so bad about a weak card, from a collection they will never complete, which is supposed to be used to play a simple game. And this is not because they had the right to get it, but because other people (who hadn't the right too) got it. Looks like envy to me.

    Like I said before, why don't you forget this "mistake", and the "bad" choice that followed it and go do something you like... play a game, for example? Let it be.

    Just a tip: don't expect people being generous about things that have monetary value, and even more if it's a company. You see a booster, a mythic card. The company see the chance of getting money for it. This money probably goes for someone that hardly knows anything about the game, a "boss". One of his employees did something wrong, and probably tried to avoid consequences, even before the boss knew about it. The company itself probably never had the "choice" you mentioned, as someone that had not the power to decide about distributing items was afraid of the consequences to his / her job. Did something he / she couldn't, tried to "solve the problem" asap. If I was the guy behind this mistake, it's what I would do.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
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    Pcell777 said:
    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



    It's a terrible analogy because nobody stole anything.  A truck didn't flip over.  You're also talking about complete strangers that have no business with the company, instead of a dedicated community that funds this entire application with their hard earned money.

    A more accurate analogy would be that Footlocker delivered a new pair of shoes to all of its frequent customers on file by mistake.  Then instead of leaving it there, they took the time to go to everyone's house to take the box out of the mailbox from those who didn't claim it yet.

    The issue is that they decided to go door to door to claim it back, instead of just leaving it as a gift for their frequent customers.  We fund the game, so distributing an extra card would raise spirits and could even generate more funding.  But let's throw away all that good will and preserve our precious cards that will expire several months down the road instead.  Sad part is that is a management decision and the devs are going to take the heat for it.

  • Pcell777
    Pcell777 Posts: 51 Match Maker
    edited August 2017
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    Steeme said:
    Pcell777 said:
    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



    ...

    A more accurate analogy would be that Footlocker delivered a new pair of shoes to all of its frequent customers on file by mistake.  Then instead of leaving it there, they took the time to go to everyone's house to take the box out of the mailbox from those who didn't claim it yet.

    The issue is that they decided to go door to door to claim it back, instead of just leaving it as a gift for their frequent customers.  We fund the game, so distributing an extra card would raise spirits and could even generate more funding.  But let's throw away all that good will and preserve our precious cards that will expire several months down the road instead.  Sad part is that is a management decision and the devs are going to take the heat for it.

    Hey, your analogy is better than mine :-). But the conclusion is the same.  A company can reward their customers with gifts.  That doesnt mean customers are entitled to ask for free gifts from the company.  People who are complaining about not getting free gifts are greedy.  People who are angry that some got the gift while they don't are just envious.  
    Generosity is a choice, not a virtue, especially in business.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
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    Pcell777 said:
    Hey, your analogy is better than mine :-). But the conclusion is the same.  A company can reward their customers with gifts.  That doesnt mean customers are entitled to ask for free gifts from the company.  People who are complaining about not getting free gifts are greedy.  People who are angry that some got the gift while they don't are just envious.  
    Generosity is a choice, not a virtue, especially in business.

    I don't think you understand why players are upset.  Like I said in my post, this is not about pettiness, greed, or entitlement.  It's about the choice that D3H made.  Instead of choosing the positive path #1, they took the negative path #2.  That means they are more interested in damage control than nurturing a happy player base.

    The irony is that by damaging player morale, they are actually causing more damage than they are preventing.

  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo

    This thread in video form. 
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Pcell777 said:
    Steeme said:
    Pcell777 said:
    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



    ...

    A more accurate analogy would be that Footlocker delivered a new pair of shoes to all of its frequent customers on file by mistake.  Then instead of leaving it there, they took the time to go to everyone's house to take the box out of the mailbox from those who didn't claim it yet.

    The issue is that they decided to go door to door to claim it back, instead of just leaving it as a gift for their frequent customers.  We fund the game, so distributing an extra card would raise spirits and could even generate more funding.  But let's throw away all that good will and preserve our precious cards that will expire several months down the road instead.  Sad part is that is a management decision and the devs are going to take the heat for it.

    Hey, your analogy is better than mine :-). But the conclusion is the same.  A company can reward their customers with gifts.  That doesnt mean customers are entitled to ask for free gifts from the company.  People who are complaining about not getting free gifts are greedy.  People who are angry that some got the gift while they don't are just envious.  
    Generosity is a choice, not a virtue, especially in business.
    The bit that this analogy is missing is this:

    Those are magic sneakers that let people run faster. Wayde Van Niekerk got a pair, and Usain Bolt didn't.

    The problem is that the IAAF has decided it will let people run competitive events in their magic sneakers.



    Now I could see how one refutation of this analogy might be that the magic sneakers are ****, and to that, I say: yes, prizes in MTGPQ are really **** now.

  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ohboy said:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo

    This thread in video form. 
    I believe a more pertinent scientific experiment would be this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rAOyh7YmEc
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    shteev said:
    Pcell777 said:
    Steeme said:
    Pcell777 said:
    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



    ...

    A more accurate analogy would be that Footlocker delivered a new pair of shoes to all of its frequent customers on file by mistake.  Then instead of leaving it there, they took the time to go to everyone's house to take the box out of the mailbox from those who didn't claim it yet.

    The issue is that they decided to go door to door to claim it back, instead of just leaving it as a gift for their frequent customers.  We fund the game, so distributing an extra card would raise spirits and could even generate more funding.  But let's throw away all that good will and preserve our precious cards that will expire several months down the road instead.  Sad part is that is a management decision and the devs are going to take the heat for it.

    Hey, your analogy is better than mine :-). But the conclusion is the same.  A company can reward their customers with gifts.  That doesnt mean customers are entitled to ask for free gifts from the company.  People who are complaining about not getting free gifts are greedy.  People who are angry that some got the gift while they don't are just envious.  
    Generosity is a choice, not a virtue, especially in business.
    The bit that this analogy is missing is this:

    Those are magic sneakers that let people run faster. Wayde Van Niekerk got a pair, and Usain Bolt didn't.

    The problem is that the IAAF has decided it will let people run competitive events in their magic sneakers.



    Now I could see how one refutation of this analogy might be that the magic sneakers are tinykitty, and to that, I say: yes, prizes in MTGPQ are really tinykitty now.


    I didn't see you complaining when your team got sponsored magic sneakers that helped you win competitive events. 

    You had a whole shelf of them. And those weren't tinykitty sneakers either. 
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
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    Ohboy said:
    shteev said:
    Pcell777 said:
    Steeme said:
    Pcell777 said:
    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



    ...

    A more accurate analogy would be that Footlocker delivered a new pair of shoes to all of its frequent customers on file by mistake.  Then instead of leaving it there, they took the time to go to everyone's house to take the box out of the mailbox from those who didn't claim it yet.

    The issue is that they decided to go door to door to claim it back, instead of just leaving it as a gift for their frequent customers.  We fund the game, so distributing an extra card would raise spirits and could even generate more funding.  But let's throw away all that good will and preserve our precious cards that will expire several months down the road instead.  Sad part is that is a management decision and the devs are going to take the heat for it.

    Hey, your analogy is better than mine :-). But the conclusion is the same.  A company can reward their customers with gifts.  That doesnt mean customers are entitled to ask for free gifts from the company.  People who are complaining about not getting free gifts are greedy.  People who are angry that some got the gift while they don't are just envious.  
    Generosity is a choice, not a virtue, especially in business.
    The bit that this analogy is missing is this:

    Those are magic sneakers that let people run faster. Wayde Van Niekerk got a pair, and Usain Bolt didn't.

    The problem is that the IAAF has decided it will let people run competitive events in their magic sneakers.



    Now I could see how one refutation of this analogy might be that the magic sneakers are tinykitty, and to that, I say: yes, prizes in MTGPQ are really tinykitty now.


    I didn't see you complaining when your team got sponsored magic sneakers that helped you win competitive events. 

    You had a whole shelf of them. And those weren't tinykitty sneakers either. 
    Really. You've never seen me post anything about game balance. I see.

    I have to agree with m'colleague @babar3355 on this one... you are trolling us.

    Hey that's weird... when I editted this post, it stopped condensing the quotes...
  • TheDragonHermit
    TheDragonHermit Posts: 465 Mover and Shaker
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    Why on any of the plains is this thread still so active? We got the official statement on this, the people who are angry about this have acknowledged that the thing they missed out on (or haven't in some cases) really wasn't that stellar, the people who are defending the decision are just retreading the same arguments (come to think of it so are those against it), and nothing new is being brought up. This is just becoming a vortex of negativity that defies the laws of thermodynamics by feeding upon itself to grow bigger. Can we all just agree that this is a polarizing, but ultimately pointless subject and move on to argue about something else that is more substantial and worth the time? Seriously, are the things in the elite packs actually worth all this fuss? 
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 971 Critical Contributor
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    The part that is missing from the analogy is that when as @Steeme  said, Footlocker sent all their clients a new pair of shoes, they added a note to it stating that this was a gift to say sorry for the mishaps in the past.



  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    shteev said:
    Ohboy said:
    shteev said:
    Pcell777 said:
    Steeme said:
    Pcell777 said:
    My analogy was straight forward.

    Foot Locker = D3Go
    The truck accidently flipped = gifts were accidently given out
    The bystanders who stole the sneakers = players who grabbed the gift in time.
    You = You (ppl who were too late to get freebies)
     
    The Accident were not meant to happen.  Foot Locker and D3Go have every right to reclaim whatever left of their products.  And you have no right to ask them for anyhing not meant for you for free.  This is not some deep philosophy, it is a human common sense.



    ...

    A more accurate analogy would be that Footlocker delivered a new pair of shoes to all of its frequent customers on file by mistake.  Then instead of leaving it there, they took the time to go to everyone's house to take the box out of the mailbox from those who didn't claim it yet.

    The issue is that they decided to go door to door to claim it back, instead of just leaving it as a gift for their frequent customers.  We fund the game, so distributing an extra card would raise spirits and could even generate more funding.  But let's throw away all that good will and preserve our precious cards that will expire several months down the road instead.  Sad part is that is a management decision and the devs are going to take the heat for it.

    Hey, your analogy is better than mine :-). But the conclusion is the same.  A company can reward their customers with gifts.  That doesnt mean customers are entitled to ask for free gifts from the company.  People who are complaining about not getting free gifts are greedy.  People who are angry that some got the gift while they don't are just envious.  
    Generosity is a choice, not a virtue, especially in business.
    The bit that this analogy is missing is this:

    Those are magic sneakers that let people run faster. Wayde Van Niekerk got a pair, and Usain Bolt didn't.

    The problem is that the IAAF has decided it will let people run competitive events in their magic sneakers.



    Now I could see how one refutation of this analogy might be that the magic sneakers are tinykitty, and to that, I say: yes, prizes in MTGPQ are really tinykitty now.


    I didn't see you complaining when your team got sponsored magic sneakers that helped you win competitive events. 

    You had a whole shelf of them. And those weren't tinykitty sneakers either. 
    Really. You've never seen me post anything about game balance. I see.

    I have to agree with m'colleague @babar3355 on this one... you are trolling us.

    Hey that's weird... when I editted this post, it stopped condensing the quotes...

    No I really don't recall you ever complaining that the coalition rewards were too good. Care to jog my memory? 
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ohboy said:

    I didn't see you complaining when your team got sponsored magic sneakers that helped you win competitive events. 

    You had a whole shelf of them. And those weren't tinykitty sneakers either. 


    I don't recall getting sponsored. I recall having a team that scored the most points.  Some might call that winning the sneakers.

    I guess you got sponsored every time you spent 2-3 days of your life grinding QB for a pair of magic sneakers. It probably didn't feel like a gift did it?  And why did you refuse to join a top coalition?

    Anyway, my stance is well known.  Let everyone who is willing to put enough time and/or money into the game collect all of the available sneakers. Then we don't have to feel resentment and frustration over a game that relies entirely too much on blind luck. 

    We could actually compete to see who the best players are rather than who has the best cards.

    We could actually discuss deck building and try out other player's decks rather than having to find substitutes for everything.

    We could actually get excited about a new set coming out rather than knowing that we won't actually get to play with 80% of the mythics.



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