Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

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Comments

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards
    From the explanations I've read in this thread, the people who were getting to 1200 are mainly just people who exploit the Line app and coordinated attacks in specific slices. That's not whales vs. vets. 
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,760 Chairperson of the Boards
    Borstock said:
    From the explanations I've read in this thread, the people who were getting to 1200 are mainly just people who exploit the Line app and coordinated attacks in specific slices. That's not whales vs. vets. 
    Considering I am on day 1306 I think I qualify as a vet.  I also hit 1200 points each PVP.  This directly effects me and other players like me.  I was able to hit 1300 points before line was even big in MPQ.  There are many people who hit 1200 without line as well.  There are multiple effects this test is having do different styles of players.  Because someone uses line is no reason to say they are not being effected negatively nor should they be punished.
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    I don't see it as an attempt to directly punish anyone, but it definitely makes life harder for segments of the player base.  It is probably an attempt to make PvP more accessible to a lot more people knowing some will be unhappy, and the point of a test is to see what happens.  This addresses the most common complaint about PvP, so i take it at face value that the devs are trying. 
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    I haven't played PvP competitive for a long time because I don't like the current system.  However, I can say this change is terrible because it makes players play considerably more than they currently would have to.  In addition, less players will get the CP rewards contrary to what the devs said as I know many players get to 1200 and then let their points fall.  It simply follows the pattern of the devs saying....hey....you need to spend a few more hours playing this match 3 game to get the rewards you used to.  Saw it in PvE and now it is coming to PvP......
  • derrickn
    derrickn Posts: 49 Just Dropped In
    Considering that 9.3 seconds after I hit 625 points, I get deluged by 29 attackers taking me down 60+ points each, yeah I'd say it takes more than 40 wins to get to 900 points.    More than 400 even.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    derrickn said:
    Considering that 9.3 seconds after I hit 625 points, I get deluged by 29 attackers taking me down 60+ points each, yeah I'd say it takes more than 40 wins to get to 900 points.    More than 400 even.
    What's wrong with that? 

    You give zero information on your roster, play commitment, how much you've spent, how long you've played. Etc.

    It seems like the forum believes any roster, any level of player should hit 900. This isn't pve where if you just participate you win.

    Why can't there be a play mode that takes a level of roster depth to succeed. I don't want to play Bejeweled blitz.

    Isn't it boring to play a game that's setup where there is zero failure?
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    it's a test. in the off-season. they're trying it and then re-evaluating. play it. give feedback. see how they change it...

    i applaud the attempt anyways.


    can we focus some dev effort on new game modes maybe??
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    sh81 said:
    Ebolamonkey84 said:
    In the current event, it took me 15 wins to get to 900.  With the new system, I would not even have the 10 cp yet.
    I dont know how/why, Im not that great with the nuances of PVP, but I can say it takes me that - at least - to hit 575.


    Yes, this change is good for you and everyone else who does 575-900 in PVP.

    It's terrible for everyone doing 1200+ now.

    Let's just agree on that.

    Except for the mean cyberbullies in s2.
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    Borstock said:
    From the explanations I've read in this thread, the people who were getting to 1200 are mainly just people who exploit the Line app and coordinated attacks in specific slices. That's not whales vs. vets. 
    I don't like the battle chats either so i get my 1200 on  my own. The whales i know usually are shield checking. 

    Imho you're talking about different problems that this test won't fix. Your mmr will still be broken, most high end alliances will still coordinate and shield check and pvp will still remain a constant uphill battle no matter how much you improve. 

    This will improve your chances at the 900 points progression but should you ever join the 5star ranks where all that matters is CP and Legendaries this will do nothing for you and everything against you
  • Black Duke
    Black Duke Posts: 694 Critical Contributor
    Well, yesterday I had a straight climb from 0 to 950 points in Daredevil-PVP. I didn´t really count my wins but I guess I´ve won around 15 or 16 battles. In the new system I would have only gotten round to the 10 CP which means that I would have missed half of the progression rewards. Sorry but that´s ridiculous and by no means fairer than the old system!
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    For those above?  Honestly Im not sure where it leaves you.  Clean up in PVE as if it were DDQ to mitigate what you lose in PVP progression?


    Please.
    Level 400 enemies in CL8, if/when they roll out the new PVE model, is not DDQ.
    That's where I play.
    Yes, it will be a lot easier than the 451s I'm facing now, but that's mostly because those extra 50 levels scale up INSANELY.

    Level 400 will still be a challenge for anyone not rocking 480s+ - those are the guys who will take placement from me in CL8.

    I'm already "cleaning up" in PVE since I'm t10 even with my scaling in cl8, so losing 15 CP for 1200 is a net loss.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    When the test happened numerous 5* players were coming and saying it took less than 30 minutes to do their clears.  They played mostly Thanos+2 and cruised through without even trying.

    These same players where ones also saying they didnt even bother with PVE because it was far to much work, but "put this test live now because we love it!".

    While my clears went from 1h 30m to about 1h 30m.


    Yes I know.
    Those players are not me.
    I'll clear in 35 minutes because I'm not using my Thanos to consume health packs in PVE.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    35 minutes, oh no! The hardship! ;)


    I'm clearing in 50 now, but using healthpacks like candy.
    35 without health will be heaven.
    Zero interest in 25 minute clears.
  • sirwookieechris
    sirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    edited July 2017
    I've only read through a couple pages of comments, but this does seem like it will flip certain play styles.

    as someone who is on the 3* to 4* transition, I join pvp in the last few hours, hoping to get in after a flip, play to 575, and than judge if it's worth to continue on or just shield for top 20/50. This is SC8,  it I have been doing this since SC6/7 since with my roster I get destroyed by champed 4 star teams. There was no reason to join events early.

    now I can join at the start and play normally. Maybe even get the extra covers that I need. On the other hand, of you are one of the vets complaining of the uselessness of 4* covers and crying at the loss of cp, then you would likely gain from swapping playstyles. Don't play the 40 matches. Join slices right at the end and rush for t10. It would likely be less time that you currently play at the moment anyway.

    the ones truely hurt by this are those who want both the covers and the cp AND were accomplishing this already. Only D3 knows the numbers on if this will help more people than it hurts.
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
    @Brigby

    What I'd love to see after this test is some stats.  A simple table that shows by event for the last 3 events of the season and for Devine Hero's by shield clearance level and slice;

    How many people got 1200 and finished within t10 for the event
    How many people finished t10 without getting 1200
    How many people got 1200 and did not finish within t10

    What I'm certain this will show is that this change is highly beneficial for lower shield clearance levels and probably 1 or 2 slices at the higher shield clearance levels but at shield clearance level 7 & 8 there will be a not insignificant number of player for whom this change is disastrous.

    That should also make reasonably obvious the solution - reduce the CP award from the proposed 15 to t10 so say 5 for all shield clearance levels and for shield clearance levels 7 & 8 (maybe 6 if the data supports it) bring back the 1200 equivalent progression CP to 15.

    It's fairly obvious with the statements about the absence of SCl 9 & 10 yet that you are struggling to retain players at the higher end of the game as it is - I'm convinced the data will show this will only make it worse and hopefully then some common sense will prevail.

    To be honest I'd assume/hope this is data that has already been looked at but statements on discord about the change suggest not and that its one persons pet project with little understanding of gameplay at the higher levels of the game - but then again we are your beta testers so maybe it would be worth listening to what we say :)
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,760 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    Bowgentle said:
    sh81 said:
    Ebolamonkey84 said:
    In the current event, it took me 15 wins to get to 900.  With the new system, I would not even have the 10 cp yet.
    I dont know how/why, Im not that great with the nuances of PVP, but I can say it takes me that - at least - to hit 575.


    Yes, this change is good for you and everyone else who does 575-900 in PVP.

    It's terrible for everyone doing 1200+ now.

    Let's just agree on that.

    Except for the mean cyberbullies in s2.
    If you say so, I wouldnt know.

    I think in general, this is better for the majority - those hitting 1200+ must surely be a minority?

    So if its for the greater good, its for the best, but of course thats not to say I dont sympathise with those that lose out.







    Here is the thing when you talk about the greater good.  The fact is by taking the CP out of progression it is limiting the 5* transition because LT are the only way to get 5*.  If the made the 15 CP available at 40 wins 1200 plus players would still ha e to play 2X as much as they do now for the same rewards.  For players transitioning to 4* achieving 40 wins men's starting PVP much earlier and getting into brackets with more 5* players so they will be out of the top 10 and not get the CP.  there are ways to make PVP better for players with 3* and 4* rosters, but it should not come at the expense of top end players.  accross all games I play the more developed you are the more rewards you can get and you have an advantage over less developed rosters.  This is the reason people should want to advance there roster.  If they want to tie wins to rewards they need to tie them to CL and add CL 9 and possible 10.  Give out CP for final progression at higher levels and CP for placement at lower levels.  This will allow high end players to progress and less developed rosters to progress in PVP.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,332 Chairperson of the Boards
    The overall idea is good, but 40 victories are way too much for the 4* cover. Even if you only managed to play 38-point fights (the minimum not to take an overall loss from retaliation) you'd only need 24 wins to get 900 points, but since from 0-400 points you usually get 55+ point battles, it comes to less than 20. 40 is twice as many, which, bears mentioning, means twice as much time playing an already time-consuming game. I understand that the number cannot be exactly equivalent because now the chance to be impeded by defeats/attacks is gone, but twice is definitely way too much. Surely, if MPQ were one of those ad-based games I'd see why they want us to spend more time playing, but since it is not, there's no point to make us play more for the same rewards.

    I encourage people to play the event but let go this once of that 4* cover. We need to send a strong message that we don't want to spend more time playing the same event for the same rewards. Since this is only a test, this is our opportunity to show them that they need to do better.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    _M4ru_ said:
    A few "interesting" comments from devs: 
    How dare we to optimize our play time! We should all be ashamed! Grind 8+ hours or die!
    So intent is play more for a less rewarding experience....
    Option 1
    Play more for less rewards
    Option 2
    Play less for less rewards (stop playing)

    I'll take option 2

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