alaeth said: Borstock said: You're getting attacked in there, too. If you're getting attacked in competitive PvP before 900, you're doing it wrong.1. climb to "float point" (typically 400 pts) - in the current model, the risk vs reward makes you an unappealing target... so you are unlikely to be hit2. When time permits, climb to your first shield point (800, 900, or higher). 5* rosters typically don't even shield until they're well over 1200.3. shield hop to preserve your points, hitting only targets that are 60+ points to make it "worth it" to break your shield and expose yourself.The concept of slow climbing to 1200 is not realistic. People will see you out, and you will get hit (as you suggest). That's why shields exist. Shield hopping is used by every single top 10 player in scl6, 7, and 8.In the new model, the moment you appear you'll be attacked because points are irrelevant (very few ppl with be able to hit top 10 finish, so most will just rush for 40 fights... doesn't matter if you're worth 1 pt or 75. In the current model, point-based progression actively discourages hitting low scores... the reward isn't worth the risk. In the new model (assuming no MMR changes), those poor 2* and 3* rosters I see are going to be annihilated.
Borstock said: You're getting attacked in there, too.
Borstock said: Honestly, it's starting to sound more and more to me as if the devs are trying to make you people all play like the people with a similar experience to the one I've had.
chitown021 said: Finally! I've been begging for this forever! I don't give a tinykitty at this point about finishing in first place since I'm not powerful enough to hold my spot, nor rich enough to shield myself. I just want the progression rewards. Right now I play long enough to get to 400 and the hero points, then I quit because I tread water after that. I lose points faster than I can gain so I can't get to the next reward.
Punishu777 said: Borstock said: Honestly, it's starting to sound more and more to me as if the devs are trying to make you people all play like the people with a similar experience to the one I've had. Trust me @Borstock for those of us with 1100+ days in who have been fighting in PvP since hulk bombing was the way to win, we have paid our dues and spent our time playing a huge number of matches for minimal rewards.
Pinko McFly said: Asides from the CP nerf, this change could be made totally acceptable to all level of players with one simple change, make it either/or for each level of prizes.4* cover : 40 wins or 900 points, whichever comes first.Using this mentality the CP could be put in at 50 wins or 1200.This gives the low level players shots at the rewards if they want to grind it. Top level players still have benefit from being top level and are not presented with a grind.
Vhailorx said: chitown021 said: Finally! I've been begging for this forever! I don't give a tinykitty at this point about finishing in first place since I'm not powerful enough to hold my spot, nor rich enough to shield myself. I just want the progression rewards. Right now I play long enough to get to 400 and the hero points, then I quit because I tread water after that. I lose points faster than I can gain so I can't get to the next reward. But you arent gettibg the progression rewards. You are getting most of the progression rewards, but you are missing out on the single best prpgression reward: cp. And you have to play more matches than ever to get less than before. In principle making the progression rewards more accessible is great. In implementation though, this change makes life much worse for a lot of players.
Slothkins said: This is an excellent change, and I will actually start playing PvP if it becomes permanent. I expect it will be a benefit to the vast majority of the player base who doesn't use line to coordinate their play, or who don't even know that the option exists.
Borstock said: Punter1 said: 10 pages in - so maybe missed this as I skipped some of the discussion. In a system where a min of 38 pts/win is what most players look for in PVP the win count at the top end of the scale seems to be pushed too high. I don't know why the later rewards skew so far from that total. If you're getting better than 38pts, it should take at most 24 fights to hit 900, if the climb is good and you find some 60pt matches then quite a few less. Table below shows the difference. I'd argue that it looks good until around 725/800 reward mark, then jumps too quickly. At most the win count should be 10 above the 38 pt match win count. Based on the above I think 30 wins for 900 is reasonable, that's avg of 30pt matches, which allows for some hits. You're getting attacked in there, too.
Punter1 said: 10 pages in - so maybe missed this as I skipped some of the discussion. In a system where a min of 38 pts/win is what most players look for in PVP the win count at the top end of the scale seems to be pushed too high. I don't know why the later rewards skew so far from that total. If you're getting better than 38pts, it should take at most 24 fights to hit 900, if the climb is good and you find some 60pt matches then quite a few less. Table below shows the difference. I'd argue that it looks good until around 725/800 reward mark, then jumps too quickly. At most the win count should be 10 above the 38 pt match win count. Based on the above I think 30 wins for 900 is reasonable, that's avg of 30pt matches, which allows for some hits.
10 pages in - so maybe missed this as I skipped some of the discussion. In a system where a min of 38 pts/win is what most players look for in PVP the win count at the top end of the scale seems to be pushed too high. I don't know why the later rewards skew so far from that total.
If you're getting better than 38pts, it should take at most 24 fights to hit 900, if the climb is good and you find some 60pt matches then quite a few less. Table below shows the difference.
I'd argue that it looks good until around 725/800 reward mark, then jumps too quickly. At most the win count should be 10 above the 38 pt match win count. Based on the above I think 30 wins for 900 is reasonable, that's avg of 30pt matches, which allows for some hits.
Dragon_Nexus said: Wow...only just noticed this.I like the idea in theory. The proof will be in the playing, I guess. My worry so far is I have *no* idea how many matches I win while getting up to 800+ like I currently do. I have in my head it's around 20 or something.I think the tricky part is going to be trying to balance wins and points. I mean, it would suck having a good score at 36 wins and having to win 4 more times but then being whacked back down 100 points while getting those wins when you could have just shielded and got good placement instead.That said...placement is still kinda bogus in PvP land. Getting a really good score in CL8 still only nets you a handful of 3*s.Still, I'm optimistic. I play PvP primarily for progress rewards anyway. I try to get to 900 for that 4* cover and rarely get it these days. If this can make it easier, or at least attainable through sheer work load, then I'm all for it.Who knows, by eliminating the idea of "Get to 575 for the CP then quit" we might see the points open up WAY more. Higher scoring might be much easier since people will be fighting and winning more to get the higher rewards.
madok said: Pinko McFly said: Asides from the CP nerf, this change could be made totally acceptable to all level of players with one simple change, make it either/or for each level of prizes.4* cover : 40 wins or 900 points, whichever comes first.Using this mentality the CP could be put in at 50 wins or 1200.This gives the low level players shots at the rewards if they want to grind it. Top level players still have benefit from being top level and are not presented with a grind. @Brigby This x 1000. Instead of changing the system from A to B expand the system to be A AND B. Make it so either approach is viable and you solve the problems folks have outlined.As a programmer myself, unless they have seriously coded themselves into a corner this should be pretty simple since you are still tracking both #s.
aesthetocyst said: Vhailorx said ... this change makes life much worse for a lot of players. Making life better for this player.Devs, please make this change permanent immediately. Make it even more blundering while you're at it. I have faith in you.
Vhailorx said ... this change makes life much worse for a lot of players.