Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

Borstock

Bowgentle said:

Well Xeno's roster is better than yours, then.

If his roster is better than thirty-six champed 4* characters plus everything that goes with it, that's fine, but he's also going to be better than a lot of rosters and so he's talking to fewer people than he thinks he is.

bluewolf

Just to throw out there....this is a small help for vaulted characters. A lot more vaulted 4's are available in PVP than PVE.  If you are guaranteed a cover for play, it's not bad for those who need a cover.  Not saying this is all sunshine.  Just a help.

zodiac339

Borstock said:

alaeth said:

Borstock said:

You're getting attacked in there, too.

If you're getting attacked in competitive PvP before 900, you're doing it wrong.

1. climb to "float point" (typically 400 pts) - in the current model, the risk vs reward makes you an unappealing target... so you are unlikely to be hit

2. When time permits, climb to your first shield point (800, 900, or higher). 5* rosters typically don't even shield until they're well over 1200.

3. shield hop to preserve your points, hitting only targets that are 60+ points to make it "worth it" to break your shield and expose yourself.

None of what you just described is true of my PvP experience... at all.

The 400 pt float point is exactly what I do, and I can usually count on getting hit at least 5-10 times if I "float" there. Once I get to around 800, I'm consistently getting hit while I'm playing. I have never, in my entire time playing from the lower ranks to now, been able to climb higher than 900 without consistent attacks at that point. It's shield hop or die. And once I've gotten to that point, the matchmaker has NEVER given me anything remotely close to a 60 point target. Once I've hit 900, I don't even see 40 point targets and they're usually less than 30 points each.

No, you mean they're worth "30" points. When you actually win, they're worth 9 points. PVP scoring system is so messy.

BearVenger

I don't think more vaulted 4*s are available. Both event types use an alphabetical distribution to go through the 4* ranks.

Borstock

zodiac339 said:

Borstock said:

alaeth said:

Borstock said:

You're getting attacked in there, too.

If you're getting attacked in competitive PvP before 900, you're doing it wrong.

1. climb to "float point" (typically 400 pts) - in the current model, the risk vs reward makes you an unappealing target... so you are unlikely to be hit

2. When time permits, climb to your first shield point (800, 900, or higher). 5* rosters typically don't even shield until they're well over 1200.

3. shield hop to preserve your points, hitting only targets that are 60+ points to make it "worth it" to break your shield and expose yourself.

None of what you just described is true of my PvP experience... at all.

The 400 pt float point is exactly what I do, and I can usually count on getting hit at least 5-10 times if I "float" there. Once I get to around 800, I'm consistently getting hit while I'm playing. I have never, in my entire time playing from the lower ranks to now, been able to climb higher than 900 without consistent attacks at that point. It's shield hop or die. And once I've gotten to that point, the matchmaker has NEVER given me anything remotely close to a 60 point target. Once I've hit 900, I don't even see 40 point targets and they're usually less than 30 points each.

No, you mean they're worth "30" points. When you actually win, they're worth 9 points. PVP scoring system is so messy.

I've found that usually only happens when I retaliate against a loss. As long as it's a fresh match, the point total is usually within +/- 3pts for me.

crackninja

40 matches is a lot, but at least I know it's doable for a cover I really want, vs the standard beat down I get trying to hit 900.

Maceo511

elvy75 said:

Borstock said:

I honestly have no idea how you're getting 50 points per match. The matchmaker stops giving me targets that juicy at 500. I can skip until my thumb turns numb.

The issue is that in your mmr range many people just quit after hitting 575. Also slice in which you play plays big role. Its easier to find 75 points target in slices 1,3 and 4. Those slices trickle down the points down to lower rosters. you see if 5* roster gets over 2k points, they will grill and people with 4* rosters can q them for 75 points. Those 4* rosters will be visible and can be beaten by people with boosted 3*. So everyone in the chain wins 75 points because the big guy grilled. In slice like s2 grills dont exist, big guys there keep points for themselves, and because of MMR no one can even see them, so max points in those slices are only around 1200, but since points dont trickle down, you will never be able to q someone with high points. Also another reason is that for high roster in limited slices like s2 MMR breaks down after they get over certain level ... maybe 900ish points or even less and they can q now everyone, including low 3* teams, and they further suppress points by hitting them. 

Actually I believe they dump before hitting in S2.  They are real sickos there.

Killabee

For me personally as a 4* transitioner, I hope this becomes more than a test. I've never been able to get past 900 and very seldomly get to 800 on season pvp. And I do play a lot of pvp probably have to get 40-70 wins for top50 placement. I get to 300-400 day one, then 575 on day2, day3 I climb back up to 650-750 and shield because I simply can't beat constant rhulk or double boosted 4* rosters or the occasional monster 5* rosters. 

So for me, this is a huge QOL change for me and also is a small answer to vaulting because now I'll have more access to vaulted 4* rewards besides pve where I normally rank 3-10.

ZamWiesel

Currently @2348 points in blind justice and still not in top 10. Not getting the CP with the new system means a much slower process for me in transitioning from a 4* roster to a 5* roster. Doesn't help that the cp system is so horrible already with extreme dilution in classics and the fact that we STILL don't have colorless cover rewards yet!

Bowgentle

Maceo511 said:

elvy75 said:

Borstock said:

I honestly have no idea how you're getting 50 points per match. The matchmaker stops giving me targets that juicy at 500. I can skip until my thumb turns numb.

The issue is that in your mmr range many people just quit after hitting 575. Also slice in which you play plays big role. Its easier to find 75 points target in slices 1,3 and 4. Those slices trickle down the points down to lower rosters. you see if 5* roster gets over 2k points, they will grill and people with 4* rosters can q them for 75 points. Those 4* rosters will be visible and can be beaten by people with boosted 3*. So everyone in the chain wins 75 points because the big guy grilled. In slice like s2 grills dont exist, big guys there keep points for themselves, and because of MMR no one can even see them, so max points in those slices are only around 1200, but since points dont trickle down, you will never be able to q someone with high points. Also another reason is that for high roster in limited slices like s2 MMR breaks down after they get over certain level ... maybe 900ish points or even less and they can q now everyone, including low 3* teams, and they further suppress points by hitting them. 

Actually I believe they dump before hitting in S2.  They are real sickos there.

And witches.
#neverforget

Nepenthe

Pinko McFly said:

Asides from the CP nerf, this change could be made totally acceptable to all level of players with one simple change, make it either/or for each level of prizes.
4* cover : 40 wins or 900 points, whichever comes first.

Using this mentality the CP could be put in at 50 wins or 1200.

This gives the low level players shots at the rewards if they want to grind it. Top level players still have benefit from being top level and are not presented with a grind.

This is the best suggestion I've seen in this thread. LOVE the idea. Will probably be putting this in whatever feedback survey they end up doing after the test. @Pinko McFly

Borstock

ZamWiesel said:

Currently @2348 points in blind justice and still not in top 10. Not getting the CP with the new system means a much slower process for me in transitioning from a 4* roster to a 5* roster. Doesn't help that the cp system is so horrible already with extreme dilution in classics and the fact that we STILL don't have colorless cover rewards yet!

That would put you 8th in my slice. Top 25 starts at 909.

pheregas

Day 1235 player here.  I regularly score 900+ points (and even 1200+ if I have the HP). 

This test will be dedicated to playing the lowest tiered teams I can get away with.  I will not be using 4/5* characters in this PVP.  I will actively avoid boosted characters.

I invite all players to actively target me with comparable teams.  We will retaliate each other all day long until 40 wins are achieved.

I will then walk away and be saddened by my lack of placement rewards for twice the amount of wins.  But I will not have spent any HP.  Nor any health packs.  I will use no consumables and throw the entire weight of my 3* roster, including all the dupes, into my 40 wins.

D3 gets nothing from me this event.

Also:  Keep in mind this happens concurrently with the Sinister Six Event.  This is the week without iso or rewards in general.  Hope you don't have any covers pending.

ZamWiesel

Borstock said:

ZamWiesel said:

Currently @2348 points in blind justice and still not in top 10. Not getting the CP with the new system means a much slower process for me in transitioning from a 4* roster to a 5* roster. Doesn't help that the cp system is so horrible already with extreme dilution in classics and the fact that we STILL don't have colorless cover rewards yet!

That would put you 8th in my slice. Top 25 starts at 909.

That would be nice. Top 25 in my slice starts @1600. This is a new personal best for me as usually I'm in the 1300-1600 range. Couldn't be done without the generous help of the 5* frontrunners and grillers. 

Ruinate

Darknes21 said:

Sounds to me like you guys are trying to get people to buy more Health Packs again! 

Here is an idea....how about open CL 9 & 10...how long has it been 9 - 12 months? Coming Soon....Right! 


-Darknes21 

There won't be a CL 9 or 10.

They just removed 15 CP from prog over to T10 placement.  There is no 4*+ that is going to be okay with passing on 15 CP after winning 40 freaking matches.  This means players will drop in CL and spread out.  The improved rewards in higher CL is minuscule.  I once dropped to CL6 in a new release pve and it was glorious.

And so when we ask "When is CL 9?"
They will say "There aren't enough players in 8."

mikebdot

My strategy will be: win 5-10 matches with Thanos / strange / whoever, retreat 10-15 times with an awful team (a great use for much derided characters *cough* mordo *cough*) and do it again. Hooray. I'm so awesome. 

Will MMR prevent this from working? 

At first I thought this was good for me, but is this what my life has become? Finding ways to limit the amount of time I play a game that is supposed to be a fun escape from reality? 

Who am I kidding? Of course it is. 

Punishu777

This seems ridiculous. In my play for 1.2k progression I average about 60 points per match, sometimes more sometimes less. That means it takes me about 20 matches to get all rewards including the 15cp at 1.2k. Now you're telling me I have to play twice as many matches for half the cp, which is really the only thing that matters, and then worry about placing t10 to get the rest. In many slices that's easy, in slice 3 or 4, not so easy.

@Brigby I agree with whoever said that what the developers should be spending time with is cl9 and cl10 and fixing pve scaling; not making it harder and more time consuming to get cp.

GrumpySmurf1002

Borstock said:

I honestly have no idea how you're getting 50 points per match. The matchmaker stops giving me targets that juicy at 500. I can skip until my thumb turns numb.

This season I'm averaging 1497.5 per PvP, and 29.75 wins.   (50.3 per win)
Season before was 1477.4 and 26.3.  (56.2 per win)

Borstock

GrumpySmurf1002 said:

Borstock said:

I honestly have no idea how you're getting 50 points per match. The matchmaker stops giving me targets that juicy at 500. I can skip until my thumb turns numb.

This season I'm averaging 1497.5 per PvP, and 29.75 wins.   (50.3 per win)
Season before was 1477.4 and 26.3.  (56.2 per win)

Honestly, it's starting to sound more and more to me as if the devs are trying to make you people all play like the people with a similar experience to the one I've had.

lokiagentofhotness

alaeth said:

Borstock said:

You're getting attacked in there, too.

If you're getting attacked in competitive PvP before 900, you're doing it wrong.

1. climb to "float point" (typically 400 pts) - in the current model, the risk vs reward makes you an unappealing target... so you are unlikely to be hit

2. When time permits, climb to your first shield point (800, 900, or higher). 5* rosters typically don't even shield until they're well over 1200.

3. shield hop to preserve your points, hitting only targets that are 60+ points to make it "worth it" to break your shield and expose yourself.



The concept of slow climbing to 1200 is not realistic.  People will see you out, and you will get hit (as you suggest).  That's why shields exist.  Shield hopping is used by every single top 10 player in scl6, 7, and 8.


In the new model, the moment you appear you'll be attacked because points are irrelevant (very few ppl with be able to hit top 10 finish, so most will just rush for 40 fights... doesn't matter if you're worth 1 pt or 75.  In the current model, point-based progression actively discourages hitting low scores... the reward isn't worth the risk.  In the new model (assuming no MMR changes), those poor 2* and 3* rosters I see are going to be annihilated.