Proof that the devs are not listening to the players.

Ohboy

You're playing to get the rewards. It's not the same as playing training grounds past 4 games. 

To hear you describe it like that, it's obvious you feel entitled to your coalition rewards. Those are earned, in case you have forgotten. 

Phillmoore

Agree with ohboy.  And @Dologan. I may not be in top 10 teams. But i score over 1100 points in these event to help my team out.  We rarely rank top 100. And you know i like that. We play when we can and everybody contributes something  at the level they are able to without any pressure to sign on and play.  Much more fun like that. Maybe you should play the game from that angle instead of win win win.  The rewards are not worth your time? Don't play them then. If they are worth your time. Dont complain about having to play too often. That's your choice 

and I truely believe that this discussion is over.  It's not going to change just because a handful of the top players feel it's unfair.  The majority of casual players are just happy to play a game which is mostly free to play and just takes some of your time.  And if you don't have that time.  Don't play or at least stop complaining.  

Dologan

Ohboy said:

You're playing to get the rewards. It's not the same as playing training grounds past 4 games. 

To hear you describe it like that, it's obvious you feel entitled to your coalition rewards. Those are earned, in case you have forgotten. 

Ah, disingenuous as ever...

Of course they are earned, duh. But even you must realise what is happening. First D3H massively nerfs the rewards, and now on top of that they have raised the bar of what one needs to do to earn them.

It is no longer sufficient to have good cards, build solid decks and play well to hit most/all objectives; you're now expected to play the same 9 matches over and over for an inordinate amount of time that most people with half a social or family life will struggle to find. This IS supposed to be a game, it IS supposed to be fun, and not just for casuals, but also top 10 coalition players, who number among the most enthusiastic. But the way D3H is managing things, they are punishing those players just for wanting to do the best they can.

You shouldn't have to play all the time, but the way the coalition system is implemented pressures you to if you don't want to let your mates down. Even if your coalition has a feeder coalition of subs, if you want/need to miss an event you then have to leave the group altogether and have your cumulative points reset. Some people don't mind that, but others do. Oh, and if you're the coalition leader? Tough luck, you can't leave and re-assume command later without a trusted mate and some ridiculous contortions. 

Ohboy

Dologan said:

Ohboy said:

You're playing to get the rewards. It's not the same as playing training grounds past 4 games. 

To hear you describe it like that, it's obvious you feel entitled to your coalition rewards. Those are earned, in case you have forgotten. 

Ah, disingenuous as ever...

Of course they are earned, duh. But even you must realise what is happening. First D3H massively nerfs the rewards, and now on top of that they have raised the bar of what one needs to do to earn them.

It is no longer sufficient to have good cards, build solid decks and play well to hit most/all objectives; you're now expected to play the same 9 matches over and over for an inordinate amount of time that most people with half a social or family life will struggle to find. This IS supposed to be a game, it IS supposed to be fun, and not just for casuals, but also top 10 coalition players, who number among the most enthusiastic. But the way D3H is managing things, they are punishing those players just for wanting to do the best they can.

You shouldn't have to play all the time, but the way the coalition system is implemented pressures you to if you don't want to let your mates down. Even if your coalition has a feeder coalition of subs, if you want/need to miss an event you then have to leave the group altogether and have your cumulative points reset. Some people don't mind that, but others do. Oh, and if you're the coalition leader? Tough luck, you can't leave and re-assume command later without a trusted mate and some ridiculous contortions. 

Therein lies the rub doesn't it? Everything is user imposed. You guys keep telling me you're the most dedicated bunch of players who put in all that effort, so you deserve the better prizes... But then you complain it requires too much effort. 

If you guys are all such a close knit bunch of agreeable jolly fellows and everyone hates the grind, then just take a vote and stand down for the event. Then everyone gets to play less. Don't worry someone will still get the top rewards. It's not going away just because you're not playing every cycle. 

If you insist on getting the top rewards, then go earn them. Clearly you guys don't want to "do the best you can" as you put it. That's why you're complaining. You guys want to be the top without playing it out to see who is most dedicated.

Because what's doing the best you can? See if you can score the perfect cycle? That goal is achieved just playing one cycle...why play more?  Get the highest total aggregate score? Then you want more charges to work towards that goal. All these pretty, honorable words... Empty excuses. You just want the rewards for less work. 

Your private coalition rules are the ones that bind you, not the event format. Either change them or find a more suitable coalition. 

Thésée

We don't want less work, just the same as it was before with good old 8 hours timers. 
Helping teammates by putting points like Philmore does is fun, that's what we like, that's all. We don't like the strain this format creates. We're not asking for more rewards (or at least, not in this thread :-) 

naphomci

Phillmoore said:

Agree with ohboy.  And @Dologan. I may not be in top 10 teams. But i score over 1100 points in these event to help my team out.  We rarely rank top 100. And you know i like that. We play when we can and everybody contributes something  at the level they are able to without any pressure to sign on and play.  Much more fun like that. Maybe you should play the game from that angle instead of win win win.  The rewards are not worth your time? Don't play them then. If they are worth your time. Dont complain about having to play too often. That's your choice 

and I truely believe that this discussion is over.  It's not going to change just because a handful of the top players feel it's unfair.  The majority of casual players are just happy to play a game which is mostly free to play and just takes some of your time.  And if you don't have that time.  Don't play or at least stop complaining.  

You can believe the conversation is over, but several people here do not agree (though with the studio closure it may all be moot). You contendi that the majority of casual players like this, but you offer no proof. Your statement does not make something irrefutably true, as you seem to think it does.

And, @Ohboy, you can still earn the rewards with 8 hour charges. The difference is that 4 hour charges reward coalitions willing to sacrifice a lot more time, and willing to stay/wake up at odd hours. If the node recharges at in the middle of the night for lots of people and the event ends, it is not about how you play, it is about a willingness to track and wake up in the middle of the night.

Ohboy

@naphomci

4h charges actually help people who can't beat every node reliably get to their progression. 

Thésée said:

We don't want less work, just the same as it was before with good old 8 hours timers. 
Helping teammates by putting points like Philmore does is fun, that's what we like, that's all. We don't like the strain this format creates. We're not asking for more rewards (or at least, not in this thread :-) 

How bad is everyone's memory. 8h recharges are like a blip in the history of mtgpq events. The good old times was 4h. And people just did that. You do just want less work. You've had a taste of it and decided you didn't want to work as hard. And that's totally fine. Just don't. Like I said...take a vote and stand down. If you aren't, it's just because you want the same rewards for doing less. 

naphomci

Ohboy said:

@naphomci

4h charges actually help people who can't beat every node reliably get to their progression. 

Except that really isn't true in context. The event ends much sooner under a 4 hour recharge than it did under the 8 hour recharge. So, you are probably getting pretty close to the same number of attempts under either system.

Machine

I didn't follow the entire discussion, but why was the timer changed from 8 hours to 4 hours without any notification? Did @Brigby answer that question already somewhere?

Edit: Just to add my two cents: the change to 4 hours made this weekend event a horrible grind which I don't like at all. Playing to 750 and then stop is a possibility, but that's not how an event is supposed to work, right? It also lets the rest of the team down. I don't believe that should be the direction this game is heading.

Steeme

Machine said:

I didn't follow the entire discussion, but why was the timer changed from 8 hours to 4 hours without any notification? Did @Brigby answer that question already somewhere?

Edit: Just to add my two cents: the change to 4 hours made this weekend event a horrible grind which I don't like at all. Playing to 750 and then stop is a possibility, but that's not how an event is supposed to work, right? It also lets the rest of the team down. I don't believe that should be the direction this game is heading.

The statement from the developers (hearsay through Brigby) was that the 8 hour node recharge was a bug.  The PvE coalition event was always intended to be 4 hours.

By the way, why don't we all compromise and push for 6 hour charges?  It's a simple change that can work in the short term until a real solution is presented.  If we can't agree on a compromise, then how does D3? determine the best solution?

Ohboy

naphomci said:

Ohboy said:

@naphomci

4h charges actually help people who can't beat every node reliably get to their progression. 

Except that really isn't true in context. The event ends much sooner under a 4 hour recharge than it did under the 8 hour recharge. So, you are probably getting pretty close to the same number of attempts under either system.

Well yeah, because you guys campaigned to get it ended earlier. So now neither camp gets what they need. 

Dologan

Yes, ohboy, we want the same rewards for less work. That's exactly what we want and there is no shame in that, because the current work it requires to get to the top is not reasonable or befitting of a bloody mobile game about zombies, mummies and whatnot meant to be played for entertainment by people with other activities in life. It didn't use to be that way and there is no reason it should. 

Top rewards are earned by a mixture of skill (building/steering decks), luck (getting and drawing cards, matches), cooperation (helping mates) and dedication/grinding. The format absolutely influences their balance and 4 hour recharges overwhelmingly tilt that it towards the dedication/grinding aspect, exploiting and abusing the fact that there will always be some people bored, addicted, greedy and/or masochistic enough to try going through the hoops no matter how high they're placed, to the detriment of overall enjoyment and alienating those that may have the skill and resources, and probably even the dedication to earn the top rewards, but not the time required to do so. 

Of course, it will probably shock you to hear that some people don't consider it reasonable to require inordinate dedication to earn top rewards -- I'm talking to the guy who would routinely grind Quick Battle matches for hours and hours on end to earn that mythic reward and who always resented that groups of people could earn the same reward by working well together with comparatively fewer matches during coalition events.

Machine

Steeme said:

The statement from the developers (hearsay through Brigby) was that the 8 hour node recharge was a bug.  The PvE coalition event was always intended to be 4 hours.

By the way, why don't we all compromise and push for 6 hour charges?  It's a simple change that can work in the short term until a real solution is presented.  If we can't agree on a compromise, then how does D3? determine the best solution?

That seems a bit strange. Fateful Showdown and Revolt Against the Consulate were also 8 hour refresh events as I can recall. Anyway, one of the compromises could indeed be 6 hour recharges which is way better than 4 hour recharges. Another solution could be to spread the horrible grind over a longer period of time. I personally don't mind if this event runs twice as long, but with an 8 hour timer.

Mainloop25

Fateful Showdown and Ratc had 4-hour timers back when they were new. I believe it changed sometime before 2.0 dropped?? 

Thésée

Mainloop25 said:

Fateful Showdown and Ratc had 4-hour timers back when they were new. I believe it changed sometime before 2.0 dropped?? 

First event with 8 hours timers was the ill-fated first edition of Fateful Showdown  with Panharmonicon as a reward, last December 

shteev

The dev team quit. That definitely seems like proof that they aren't listening any more.

Brigby

shteev said:

The dev team quit. That definitely seems like proof that they aren't listening any more.

To be precise, Hibernum's studio closed yesterday. It is a slight, but important difference. We are however still working with a trusted team of engineers and programmers to keep the vision of this game's future alive.

Adjunct

They must really be trusted team of engineers because I've read that same quote from Brigby at least 3 times.

Abenjes

more trusted than Hibernum obviously

Ohboy

Dologan said:

Yes, ohboy, we want the same rewards for less work. That's exactly what we want and there is no shame in that, because the current work it requires to get to the top is not reasonable or befitting of a bloody mobile game about zombies, mummies and whatnot meant to be played for entertainment by people with other activities in life. It didn't use to be that way and there is no reason it should. 

Top rewards are earned by a mixture of skill (building/steering decks), luck (getting and drawing cards, matches), cooperation (helping mates) and dedication/grinding. The format absolutely influences their balance and 4 hour recharges overwhelmingly tilt that it towards the dedication/grinding aspect, exploiting and abusing the fact that there will always be some people bored, addicted, greedy and/or masochistic enough to try going through the hoops no matter how high they're placed, to the detriment of overall enjoyment and alienating those that may have the skill and resources, and probably even the dedication to earn the top rewards, but not the time required to do so. 

Of course, it will probably shock you to hear that some people don't consider it reasonable to require inordinate dedication to earn top rewards -- I'm talking to the guy who would routinely grind Quick Battle matches for hours and hours on end to earn that mythic reward and who always resented that groups of people could earn the same reward by working well together with comparatively fewer matches during coalition events.

Oh for crying out loud. This has gone on long enough. I've never begrudged coalitions for getting their rewards. My beef was with the anti competitive practices and the over the top prizes. This went for QB top prizes too. 

What, you think that I wasn't good enough to get into a top coalition? Or perhaps you're like @andrewvanmarle, who laughably thought I didn't put in as much effort in the game as he did. If I resented your rewards as much as you say, I could easily have joined one. 

So let me set the record straight. Because this is not the first, second or third time someone has insinuated I'm envious because I can't get in a top coalition. I set up a coalition on day 1, and much like everyone here who claims to be so, I value the people in my coalition. I won't kick/replace them for doing badly, nor will I leave them just to better my rewards like so many who somehow still claim to be close comrades with their team, but require score tracking instead of trust. 

There is absolutely no shame in wanting to be efficient. You're right about that. The shame comes from trampling on others to get there. 8 hour charges were fine until you guys campaigned to cut the event short. Now there are less charges for everyone, and some people need every charge they can get. They're not playing a mindless grind like you guys. Some of them still find it hard to beat certain bosses. They need those charges. You had your event shortened to 2 days. Let the little guys win one. God knows you can afford to.