whycantwesyncpc wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: Crnch73 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: You don't. If you are missing 1 or 2 covers you can set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off, but really you should be focused on the newer characters. If resources are an issue for you then don't champ all 12 of them - pick the good ones. This should be no different from today - if you are currently resource starved then you should already be discarding the garbage tier characters so that you can focus on the better ones. You should continue to do that. I am not trying to be argumentative here... but it sorta feels like you are. I usually laugh at it all, it amuses me. But for some reason, you just seem to disagree with everyone on this thread. Which is fine, you are allowed to do so. It just seems like you are on a mission to tell everyone "stop being upset"... maybe just let em be upset? Sorry, I don't care about your feelings. I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this without getting banned again...... My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic. lol, you say that you want to go by logic and then pretend that every number and issue that doesn't work with defending the system simply either doesn't exist or just magically resolves itself. Do you ever think they maybe people actually know how much iso they have/get? It would take, what 4 million iso to champ 12 4* characters? When I started tracking what I needed to champ my 3 starts I was almost the exact same amount away. I'm not going to go back to do the match on the exact amount it is for at 12 but what I needed to do it was within 250,000. It's now almost a year later and I still have one left to champ, (not even counting the new hawkeye) So I know it will take around a year once I get started, and again that is not even counting reduced champ rewards. If you want to look at this logically and objectively you have to understand that not everyone plays like you do, has the same goals as you do, and the same resources available as you do. Until you do you are nothing but a troll. I'm not saying that to be mean or even give you a hard time. The new system sucks and causes problems for a lot of us. Just because you are not one of them doesn't mean we are all automatically wrong. By the way, if they took out the vaulting and kept everything else like keeping the latest legendaries the latest 12 it would far more benefit the game as it would give you what you want, focus on the latest and an easy way to get 4*'s champed without taking away choice from the players.
Fightmastermpq wrote: Crnch73 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: You don't. If you are missing 1 or 2 covers you can set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off, but really you should be focused on the newer characters. If resources are an issue for you then don't champ all 12 of them - pick the good ones. This should be no different from today - if you are currently resource starved then you should already be discarding the garbage tier characters so that you can focus on the better ones. You should continue to do that. I am not trying to be argumentative here... but it sorta feels like you are. I usually laugh at it all, it amuses me. But for some reason, you just seem to disagree with everyone on this thread. Which is fine, you are allowed to do so. It just seems like you are on a mission to tell everyone "stop being upset"... maybe just let em be upset? Sorry, I don't care about your feelings. I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this without getting banned again...... My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic.
Crnch73 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: You don't. If you are missing 1 or 2 covers you can set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off, but really you should be focused on the newer characters. If resources are an issue for you then don't champ all 12 of them - pick the good ones. This should be no different from today - if you are currently resource starved then you should already be discarding the garbage tier characters so that you can focus on the better ones. You should continue to do that. I am not trying to be argumentative here... but it sorta feels like you are. I usually laugh at it all, it amuses me. But for some reason, you just seem to disagree with everyone on this thread. Which is fine, you are allowed to do so. It just seems like you are on a mission to tell everyone "stop being upset"... maybe just let em be upset?
Fightmastermpq wrote: You don't. If you are missing 1 or 2 covers you can set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off, but really you should be focused on the newer characters. If resources are an issue for you then don't champ all 12 of them - pick the good ones. This should be no different from today - if you are currently resource starved then you should already be discarding the garbage tier characters so that you can focus on the better ones. You should continue to do that.
OneLastGambit wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: Crnch73 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: Sorry, I don't care about your feelings. I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this without getting banned again...... My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic. I am very much the same way, in that numbers and logic rule my world. I am constantly thinking analytically rather than emotionally in my life. There can be some analytical arguments made that still point out that this new system is seriously flawed, some of which I imagine you would totally agree with. There are other emotional arguments that I understand, you don't care about. Not trying to change who you are or how you think. I just feel that if you can't let em be upset, it's only going to drag you down too, right? Telling people their opinions and feelings are wrong... rather than just disagreeing with them... that's not getting us anywhere. That's all I meant. Let people be upset, it shouldn't affect you at all. It does affect me when people threaten to quit paying to support a game I enjoy because they are thinking irrationally. Again, I don't care if you want to get emotional, but I'm going to point out the areas where I feel people aren't being rational. I actually agree with pretty much all of your posts on this subject and like you and pretty grounded in logic (my day trade is as a researcher), the only logical argument against the new system and that covering someone before they move out of the pool (even 8months later) is that you will pull more tokens for that character it does not necessarily mean they will be useful tokens as they may well be a colour that you have maxed. When all tokens were in the pool it didn't matter as much since you could carry on pulling forever and have equal chances of *eventually* pulling the one you need. Now there is a somewhat arbitrary time limit on it as you're trying to do it before they move to the forgotten pool. Now the counterpoint to this point (why the hell am I arguing against my own points?) is that with Bonus Heroes you can (in theory) target your pulls to that character that just slipped out - therefore rendering that point moot (in theory). I believe this is the point that some are either failing to grasp or ignoring completely.
Fightmastermpq wrote: Crnch73 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: Sorry, I don't care about your feelings. I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this without getting banned again...... My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic. I am very much the same way, in that numbers and logic rule my world. I am constantly thinking analytically rather than emotionally in my life. There can be some analytical arguments made that still point out that this new system is seriously flawed, some of which I imagine you would totally agree with. There are other emotional arguments that I understand, you don't care about. Not trying to change who you are or how you think. I just feel that if you can't let em be upset, it's only going to drag you down too, right? Telling people their opinions and feelings are wrong... rather than just disagreeing with them... that's not getting us anywhere. That's all I meant. Let people be upset, it shouldn't affect you at all. It does affect me when people threaten to quit paying to support a game I enjoy because they are thinking irrationally. Again, I don't care if you want to get emotional, but I'm going to point out the areas where I feel people aren't being rational.
Crnch73 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: Sorry, I don't care about your feelings. I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this without getting banned again...... My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic. I am very much the same way, in that numbers and logic rule my world. I am constantly thinking analytically rather than emotionally in my life. There can be some analytical arguments made that still point out that this new system is seriously flawed, some of which I imagine you would totally agree with. There are other emotional arguments that I understand, you don't care about. Not trying to change who you are or how you think. I just feel that if you can't let em be upset, it's only going to drag you down too, right? Telling people their opinions and feelings are wrong... rather than just disagreeing with them... that's not getting us anywhere. That's all I meant. Let people be upset, it shouldn't affect you at all.
Fightmastermpq wrote: Sorry, I don't care about your feelings. I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this without getting banned again...... My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic.
OneLastGambit wrote: Actually it would take 5.2m iso to level them to 270 if we include the champ tax too then its actually be 5.35m to champ all 12
Fightmastermpq wrote: OneLastGambit wrote: Actually it would take 5.2m iso to level them to 270 if we include the champ tax too then its actually be 5.35m to champ all 12 Please stop quoting the old ISO costs. It's 378k for 1 or 4.5m for 12.
You don't. If you are missing 1 or 2 covers you can set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off, but really you should be focused on the newer characters. If resources are an issue for you then don't champ all 12 of them - pick the good ones. This should be no different from today - if you are currently resource starved then you should already be discarding the garbage tier characters so that you can focus on the better ones. You should continue to do that.
whycantwesyncpc wrote: Can we just admit that the new system really sucks for some of us already?
whycantwesyncpc wrote: ~snipped~
Jaedenkaal wrote: whycantwesyncpc wrote: Can we just admit that the new system really sucks for some of us already? We've agreed that large numbers of people don't like the new system from page 1. That's what this whole thread (and at least one other) is about. Whether the system is actually bad or whether it only appears that was is pretty academic as of today, 7 days or so into the new program. Fight, and I, and several others are simply arguing that there's no reason that it's going to turn out to be a terribad system just because it's different than the old system and superficially similar to even older systems that were unpopular and historically regarded as bad.
Fightmastermpq wrote: My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic.
Daredevil217 wrote: Continuing with your second point, I absolutely let the covers dictate the champ-order for me which is why of my 5 champs (I just bought my 13th Red Hulk outright for 120 CP, because under this new system it was the only way I'd ever champ him), 3 are garbage-tier. I said exactly what you quoted "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order". And I LOVED it. You telling people to change the way they play to "just focus on the best characters and forget the rest" assumes everyone plays like you.
JVReal wrote: I didn't read all the bloated posts, my apologies if this is a repeated idea. Since they have a mechanism in place that allows a "Bonus" character to be pulled from a limited, user selected, group of characters... why can't they limit the general pool to be from a group of user selected characters? You pick your 'favorite 12' that you want included in the pool of characters and your bonus characters come from that same pool. Everyone's pools will be customized.
Daredevil217 wrote: Fightmastermpq wrote: My threshold for people who prefer emotion to logic when it comes to understanding these changes is quite low. And my goal isn't to argue per se, but to point out inconsistencies in logic with regards to how this new system will impact the playerbase. For example, not too long ago the advice that was commonly given was "champ all the things" and people gave it, and followed it, using the reasoning of "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order." And that's true.......if you make enough ISO to outpace the release rate. But now all of a sudden everyone is acting like they are so ISO starved that they could never champ the 12 newest 4*s in SIX MONTHS before they enter the vault. That's a pretty huge inconsistency in logic. You claim "logic" but admitted that this system works for your unique situation. You turned down the most-suggested compromise for those who the system doesn't work for (adding the vaulted characters to classic legends) because you'd have to pay 5 more CP to continue pulling from a pool of the latest 12 (again, a system that works for you). A logical person would look at a situation from ALL angles and not just what works for them. This actually feels like it is very personal for you (and several people have pointed this out to you in one way or another). I'm just saying, you may not be the calm, logical voice of reason you think that you are. The funniest thing to me is you say it affects you when people who don't like the changes are threatening to leave the game. So rather than looking to the developers to find the best compromise you tell the customer to essentially "stop whining, get over themselves, and deal with it". Where is the logic in that? The funny thing is, for someone who seems to be "ruled by logic" you seem to be sweeping a lot of logical arguments that point out the glaring flaws of this system under the rug. Examples of said flaws are: - For vets: wrecking champing for vaulted characters (a side effect being the slowing down of resources/income those champ levels provide) - For transitioners: resetting progress for many people (like myself, Gurlbye and many others who have SEVERAL 4* at 7-12 covers and are being asked to ignore them or get them at a SNAILS pace and focus only on new characters.) - For newbs: Implementing a system that promotes having a small focused roster in a game that promotes roster diversity and walling off the majority of characters behind double RNG. As for your second point (and another glaring flaw with vaulting)- Under the old system, dilution was actually helping me (and likely others) in terms of not being adequately resourced. Cover distribution was so spread out that by the time I got a 13th cover I could champ them easily. Then just stack iso until the next cover came in. I didn't have to have 4 million on hand because I wasn't champing characters that fast. Under the new system you have a finite amount of time before the characters are sent to the land of forgotten covers which is putting pressure on players on SOME players to invest in and champ asap, and OTHER players are throwing their hands up saying "what's the point?". Continuing with your second point, I absolutely let the covers dictate the champ-order for me which is why of my 5 champs (I just bought my 13th Red Hulk outright for 120 CP, because under this new system it was the only way I'd ever champ him), 3 are garbage-tier. I said exactly what you quoted "yeah, I'm going to champ everyone eventually anyway, might as well just let the covers I get guide my champ order". And I LOVED it. You telling people to change the way they play to "just focus on the best characters and forget the rest" assumes everyone plays like you. FINALLY, and this is a very important point. You (and others) see things the way they are and decide, I'm going to live with it, it is what it is, no point in complaining, etc. By no means is this a bad response to such a drastic change. Myself (and others), have decided to point out the many flaws this new system has created and have asked the developers to think about their player-base and how they may have over-corrected (to put it lightly) the dilution problem with extreme vaulting. Asking for compromise, speaking up and offering solutions when you see a broken system (especially when people in power are willing to listen and make additional changes, which I'm really hopeful for) is not a bad reaction either. But just know if everyone took your approach nothing would ever change. And what a boring world (and game) that would be.
Hyposphere6234 wrote: Wait, they've changed the Classic\Legendary Tokens to only have a chance of receiving a cover for the latest twelve 4*s and not for a chance of all of them? I totally regret spending all of my CP's yesterday. Why did the developer's think this is a good idea? Yesterday I was praising the new system as it allowed me to get my final three covers for 3* Thanos and that twenty draws with CP and LT's contained no duplicates. Now I know why I got the draws I did. I've just looked over the "Bonus Heroes" info on the help section in the app and there's no mention of the restrictions and changes to Classic\Legendary Tokens at all. I had praise for this system until I learned this information. I'm very much in 3* to 4* transition and now this system has completely screwed me over. This is very much a d.i.c.k. move on so many levels. This is a horrible decision D3 and you should be ashamed of yourselves. I had a lot of issues before with D3 catering for the elite and not the many before. A lot of changes were made to benefit everyone but this change has shifted things purely back into the elite territory. I won't be renewing my VIP next month as the bonus LT's are worthless to me now. Right now I'm in two minds of even playing the game anymore as before the changes I was finally getting covers for older 4*s which made them more useful, because of transitioning, but now I've learned that the new changes have completely boned me because not only do I have to rely on RNG I now have to rely on RNG + more RNG. Well done D3 for trying to cater for the people already "there" and screwing over the majority of people trying to get "there."
Straycat wrote: For vets: trading champ rewards for progress on new characters seems like a fair trade. For transitioners: As it was before, it is hard to get specific covers. Champ rewards, progression rewards, boss events are still more reliable at getting covers. Now, I basically have to accept that Thor (1/4/5), with her yellow available soonish from champ rewards, leaving her at 1/5/5, will not get covered. If I really wanted to I would set her as favorite and save up 240 cp. That's about as reliable as it was before. And in this system I don't have to worry about pulling a Thor blue that I wouldn't be able to use. For newbs: I dunno how to start at 1 these days anyways. It might help their hp for roster spots, but hurt that they can't get everyone for ddq. Seeing the merits of the system is not the same as giving up and saying "deal with it, no point to complain". Its more about finding the flaws of the old system that the new system clears up. I think dilution was bad, and so far the new system has been ok for me. I haven't gotten any wasted covers, which was my main problem with the old system. For you dilution i.e. slow progress on covers was good since it doesn't take much iso. The problem is just delayed tho, eventually you end up with 2-3 fully covered with covers expiring and not enough iso, or just tons of wasted covers. I mainly don't like that Moonknight will be gone before I have him decently covered, but I know its not the end of the world. I just have to forget about him. Like I do Thor, Jean, Quake, X-23 etc to focus on the latest 12. I also don't have to worry about spending iso where I don't want.