Tromb2ch2 wrote: n25philly wrote: What about the abnormal player? Not everyone treats this like a second job. When I started tracking what I need resource wise to champ my 3* it slightly more than what it would cost to champ these twelve. That was back during the first running of the civil war event. I am just reaching the end now, two left to champ. It's been almost a year? This also kills any chance I have at leveling and champing the old characters? If I am forced to use so much iso to constantly stay on top of the newest 12 that are forced on us how could I possibly every hope to level and champ one of the old ones, especially with all of the champ rewards being stolen from us due to the removed characters? The abnormal player like yourself should realistically be happy about this change. In the old system because you were pulling characters at a slower rate it took you forever to champion any character as the pool gets more and more diluted. Now you have a higher chance of even covering one character. And the best part is you can pick said character! If anything you get the more benefit out of this change than the rest of us. You have yet to tell us which character in particular you want so we can't help you meet your goal. So help us help you, what character do you want to champ in particular?
n25philly wrote: What about the abnormal player? Not everyone treats this like a second job. When I started tracking what I need resource wise to champ my 3* it slightly more than what it would cost to champ these twelve. That was back during the first running of the civil war event. I am just reaching the end now, two left to champ. It's been almost a year? This also kills any chance I have at leveling and champing the old characters? If I am forced to use so much iso to constantly stay on top of the newest 12 that are forced on us how could I possibly every hope to level and champ one of the old ones, especially with all of the champ rewards being stolen from us due to the removed characters?
Tromb2ch2 wrote: Daredevil217 wrote: I would actually love your help with my roster. I would like to cover max and champ the following characters with 8 or more covers below (I have more with 8+ covers, these are just the ones I'd be really happy to pull a cover for and eventually champ): Jean Grey (All New X-Men) 5/3/4 Red Hulk (Thunderbolt Ross) 2/5/5 The Punisher (MAX) 5/3/4 Professor X (Charles Xavier) 5/2/5 Carnage 4/5/3 X-23 (All New Wolverine) 5/3/3 Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw) 4/3/4 Miles Morales (Spider-Man) 3/3/5 Deadpool (Uncanny X-Force) 3/2/5 Kingpin (Wilson Fisk) 3/4/3 Ant-Man (Scott Lang) 2/4/4 Cyclops (Classic) 4/2/2 Thor (Goddess of Thunder) 2/1/5 Nova (Sam Alexander) 3/3/2 Luke Cage (Power Man) 5/3/0 Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) 4/2/2 Oh wait... you thought I had ONE favorite character that I wanted to champ? Okay I'd probably focus on luke cage because he is currently in the 12. Set bonus 4* to cage and 3* to cage and it shouldn't take too much time. After that I'd work on Cyclops as he will probably be the easiest of the rest. Set bonus 3* as Cyclops and bonus 4* as Cyclops and remove the rest. After you get enough for him I'd probably shoot for miles. Setting 3* to spiderman and 4* to miles. Just like it was before it will take time to get anywhere in this game. Now for these 3 above the 3* are in the vaulted 3's so getting the first 4* champ reward will be fairly quick and you'll probably get the 2nd in a reasonable amount of time (compared to before).
Daredevil217 wrote: I would actually love your help with my roster. I would like to cover max and champ the following characters with 8 or more covers below (I have more with 8+ covers, these are just the ones I'd be really happy to pull a cover for and eventually champ): Jean Grey (All New X-Men) 5/3/4 Red Hulk (Thunderbolt Ross) 2/5/5 The Punisher (MAX) 5/3/4 Professor X (Charles Xavier) 5/2/5 Carnage 4/5/3 X-23 (All New Wolverine) 5/3/3 Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw) 4/3/4 Miles Morales (Spider-Man) 3/3/5 Deadpool (Uncanny X-Force) 3/2/5 Kingpin (Wilson Fisk) 3/4/3 Ant-Man (Scott Lang) 2/4/4 Cyclops (Classic) 4/2/2 Thor (Goddess of Thunder) 2/1/5 Nova (Sam Alexander) 3/3/2 Luke Cage (Power Man) 5/3/0 Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes) 4/2/2 Oh wait... you thought I had ONE favorite character that I wanted to champ?
Daredevil217 wrote: Oh wait... you thought I had ONE favorite character that I wanted to champ?
Daredevil217 wrote: Q1: you're confusing bonus heroes with vaulting. Bonus heroes does slightly help with RNG, vaulting does not. I very clearly stated people love the former but mostly hate the latter.
carrion pigeons wrote: I kinda doubt anyone thought that. However, you can still achieve your goals, you just have to choose the order they happen in yourself, instead of letting RNG decide the order for you. Pick one you like best, and favorite that one. Then do another one after you're satisfied with the first.
Daredevil217 wrote: I meant to leave Cage out because I was only listing vaulted characters I want to work on, since you know, everyone's answer to vaulted heroes is "bonus heroes". Of the currently blessed I also have Kate at 3/5/0 and Peggy at 5/0/2. Not to mention Iceman at a pathetic 1/5/1. The point is that in reality I would like to Champ everyone. That was my goal in 2 and 3* land and that's the goal in 4* land. Your advice was how to fast track my roster or get champs the fastest which is NOT what I'm looking for. So while I appreciate the advice, it doesn't help me. The fact that I won't even have the possibility of seeing a Deadpool, Red Hulk, Punisher, Jean, etc. because I need to rush Cage and Kate (much lower on the want list but like everyone else id like to one day Champ). Is just plain sad. Your answer is about what I thought it would be. Bonus heroes. I'm not going to just sit here and be happy with the company line where their solution doesn't apply to my problem. Not everyone wants to play the game like you and not everyone has one favorite vaulted character.
n25philly wrote: It's amazing how everyone defending this wants to bend reality to make it sound good. How does this make it better. I can't pull tokens because the odds of pulling a cover for someone I can't roster are ridiculously high. I can't put together the resources to actually roster them because it's now near impossible to add champ levels to have my 3* roster (my main source of hp) because I have to depend on rng inside of rng to actually get covers for them. Even if I manage to roster the missing characters I don't have the iso to do anything with them, and again have less resources coming in.
Even if I manage to do something with the 12 being FORCED on us (you know because of choice) I will never be able to put together resources ti do anything with the old ones because of the FORCED treadmill of new characters tieing up any and all resources I bring in to keep up because there is a limited time to do things now.
Why can't people pull their heads out of their rears long enough to realize SOME OF US NEED COVERS FOR LOTS OF CHARACTERS, NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But yeah, FORCING on to have to focus on new characters that are pretty much limited time only and destroying any realistic shot of really being able to actually do anything with older characters that we really want is a good thing and gives us more choice. How much brain damage do I have to give myself before this starts actually making any sense?
Tromb2ch2 wrote: Even before if you didn't have the newest 12 champed you still would have had the 4.4 million iso deficit from them that hasn't changed. Instead of having 40- however many you have champed now it is 12- however many you have champed (from that 12). So if you don't have any champed you now have to spend less. If you had most of them champed then you still would have had to champ them next anyway.
Copps wrote: Never draw a bonus hero? That ridiculous hyperbole. On average one in 20 heroics/event tokens should provide one. There is under a 1% chance that 89 pulls do no the provide a bonus hero and that doesn't include standard tokens. I know this isn't an unambiguously positive challenge but let's not be stupid in our complaints.
Crowl wrote: While what you say is technically correct, the reality is that under the old system, you would be spreading your covers across those new characters plus all the ones you had already champed (and getting more resources in the process) so you would be less likely to get into the situation where you max-covered a few at once and then had to either stop opening your tokens or would end up wasting them. Every time you are basically forced to hoard (rather than choose to do so) you are effectively slowing down the progress of your roster due to the failings of the overall system. Bonus heroes is a good addition, giving people some means of speeding up their progress on new characters is a good thing, but when they come at the cost of almost all your progress on the existing roster they are nowhere near enough to offset that downside.
carrion pigeons wrote: Daredevil217 wrote: Oh wait... you thought I had ONE favorite character that I wanted to champ? I kinda doubt anyone thought that. However, you can still achieve your goals, you just have to choose the order they happen in yourself, instead of letting RNG decide the order for you. Pick one you like best, and favorite that one. Then do another one after you're satisfied with the first. The new system makes it slower. But in the meantime, with proper prioritization, you can champ characters like Medusa, Carol, and Peggy (all of which are top tier and are perfectly capable of competing with characters like Iceman and Rhulk) much faster, so your raw progress towards competition level will be faster. That does mean you will have to adapt and come up with a new plan for your roster, but it doesn't mean you're actually being hurt by the change.
Tromb2ch2 wrote: Daredevil217 wrote: I meant to leave Cage out because I was only listing vaulted characters I want to work on, since you know, everyone's answer to vaulted heroes is "bonus heroes". Of the currently blessed I also have Kate at 3/5/0 and Peggy at 5/0/2. Not to mention Iceman at a pathetic 1/5/1. The point is that in reality I would like to Champ everyone. That was my goal in 2 and 3* land and that's the goal in 4* land. Your advice was how to fast track my roster or get champs the fastest which is NOT what I'm looking for. So while I appreciate the advice, it doesn't help me. The fact that I won't even have the possibility of seeing a Deadpool, Red Hulk, Punisher, Jean, etc. because I need to rush Cage and Kate (much lower on the want list but like everyone else id like to one day Champ). Is just plain sad. Your answer is about what I thought it would be. Bonus heroes. I'm not going to just sit here and be happy with the company line where their solution doesn't apply to my problem. Not everyone wants to play the game like you and not everyone has one favorite vaulted character. And in the old system you still could have opened 1000's of tokens and still not drawn any of these characters. It was RNG before and it is RNG now as well. And I know people have more than one favorite character as do I. And if you don't want to champ Kate or cage then don't, nobody is forcing you to (and honestly I say don't bother with Kate because she is leaving very soon). I'm just trying to help get your characters covered that's all. Although the rate is absolutely terrible for bonus heroes it's still 'free' covers and when you do get it you know what it is going to be.
Tromb2ch2 wrote: Crowl wrote: While what you say is technically correct, the reality is that under the old system, you would be spreading your covers across those new characters plus all the ones you had already champed (and getting more resources in the process) so you would be less likely to get into the situation where you max-covered a few at once and then had to either stop opening your tokens or would end up wasting them. Every time you are basically forced to hoard (rather than choose to do so) you are effectively slowing down the progress of your roster due to the failings of the overall system. Bonus heroes is a good addition, giving people some means of speeding up their progress on new characters is a good thing, but when they come at the cost of almost all your progress on the existing roster they are nowhere near enough to offset that downside. And in the old system I still had this problem. Right now I have 8 4* I can champion which caused me to hoard before this change. Hoarding isn't a new topic. Beginning players hoard to not pull 5*, 4* transitioners hoard to not waste 4* covers, 5* transitioners hoard to pull from the smaller pool of LL to try to max cover 5*'s.
Crnch73 wrote: Make BH's happen more often, and the complaints pretty much dry up, right?
ClydeFrog76 wrote: carrion pigeons wrote: I kinda doubt anyone thought that. However, you can still achieve your goals, you just have to choose the order they happen in yourself, instead of letting RNG decide the order for you. Pick one you like best, and favorite that one. Then do another one after you're satisfied with the first. You realise that it's entirely possible that some people will NEVER draw a bonus hero?
Tromb2ch2 wrote: And in the old system I still had this problem. Right now I have 8 4* I can champion which caused me to hoard before this change. Hoarding isn't a new topic. Beginning players hoard to not pull 5*, 4* transitioners hoard to not waste 4* covers, 5* transitioners hoard to pull from the smaller pool of LL to try to max cover 5*'s.
Question 8: If enough people voice concern, would you be willing to end vaulting?