notamutant wrote: I wasn't implying they were trying to do it to stick it to the players. Everything they do is a financial decision. I think you clarified those potential reasons a bit better than I did. Some of the below are legitimate issues, but still based around making more money...
Crnch73 wrote: Gmax101 wrote: Me : blah blah blah So let me use my current example: My hulk buster is at 5/1/2. My IM40 is at level 201, so he is pretty far from 223. I have received a total of 2 Bonus heroes since introduced, both were 3*. Personally, placement in the top 10 of any event, PVE or PVP, is not happening. I have been playing for almost 2 years and I have maybe placed in the top 10 twice ever, and that was for PVE. PVP progression to 900 is still incredibly hard for me. So, though all of those things are possible, the only realistic source for me to get Hulk Buster covers is PVE progression. With somewhere around 45-ish different 4*, and let's say we can have 2 PVE events per week. That means in the next calendar year, I can truly "bank" on getting 2 Hulk Buster covers from PVE. However, most likely one of them will be red, but that is besides the point. Let's say they are both usable colors for me. Let's also assume that, somehow my bonus character luck turns around, and I actually get a bonus 4* character. At a realistic expectation, I would say I might get one every month. Again, let's just assume I somehow only get colors I can use. If, and only if, RNG is kind to me, I can get my hulk buster fully covered in 6 months. And Let's be realistic, 4* don't fall out of any tokens except LT's. You almost pee yourself with joy if you get a 4* from a heroic, because it almost never happens. Same with event tokens and so on. now, 6 months is NOT a hugely amount of time for that to happen. I could live with 6 months. But that also requires me to only select HB as my favorite, and again requires RNG to never give me a single red cover. Plus, all the new releases coming... So my overall roster, in terms of how I wanted to progress it, will fall behind schedule. For me to fully cover any "vaulted" 4* that is 8 or less covers, takes 6 months each and those months most likely won't overlap. So effectively, they made progress even harder, but put a pretty bow on it to distract us. It was, and remains, a great idea (bonus heroes), but the implementation of that change (too scarce), in addition to the other changes (vaulting), makes it harder for me to do what I wanted. I will fully cover Agent Venom (5 covers) before I cover Hulk Buster at this point, and that is nothing short of a travesty.
Gmax101 wrote: Me : blah blah blah
fmftint wrote: The root issue was whales with EVERY classic 4 already @370. They are the main financiers of the game and they were tossing 75% of their token draws and that is UNACCEPTABLE! With this vaulting they will now be able to use 100% of their token draws
ClydeFrog76 wrote: I just feel like there's some sort of development schizophrenia going on. They introduce a mode that requires every 2*, 3* and 4* days before they vault a massive portion of the 3* and 4* pool. How the heck does that make sense?
Gmax101 wrote: Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up
Tromb2ch2 wrote: Gmax101 wrote: Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up You can't pull 4* from standard tokens. They confirmed this in one of the podcasts.
Gmax101 wrote: Tromb2ch2 wrote: Gmax101 wrote: Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up You can't pull 4* from standard tokens. They confirmed this in one of the podcasts. Fair enough. Thank you for the correction. though I genuinely thought I managed it recently (pre-bonus characters though)
Gmax101 wrote: But prior to this change, what was your option? The only difference between now and then is that you have you used to have a small chance of getting it in the tokens naturally, and I accept that tiny is better than 0% but in that scenario you have 0 control over when you get the covers other than via the aforementioned progression/placement routes.... By your own admission you are reliant on tokens.... Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up Heroic Token - roughly a 0.023*0.14 = 0.3% Event Tokens - roughly the same as heroic... 0.33% Legendary Tokens - roughly 1.9% Thing is, if Hulkbuster is a priority for you then why wouldn't you maximise your chances of getting him by adding as your only bonus.... ok, so the others not in the vault will not get any covers.... but if this is your current priority then you are clearly better off to do it that way Standard Token - oddly, if you pull ANY 4* cover from here then in theory you will automatically trigger the bonus... Heroic Token - 13% chance of a 4* x 17% chance of a bonus... = 2.3% Event tokens - 14.5% x 17% of bonus = 2.4% Legendary = 85% * 5% = 4.25% So assuming the same level of pull rate, you are 43x more likely to get him from Standards, 8x more likely from Heroic/Event and over 2x more likely to get him from Legendary's... even having 2 Bonus Heroes at a time still gives you a next gain... Which, if you compare that to Agent Venom (I will assume that he is not a favourite ) Standard Token - he will be random IF you pull a 4* but only 1/12 of the time (HB 12x more likely to be pulled) Heroic Token - he will be at 1.14% (HB ~ 2x more likely to be pulled) Event Tokens - he will be 1.21% (HB ~ 2x more likely to be pulled) Legendary = 7% (AV ~ 1.6x more likely to be pulled) So other than Legendary tokens, you are more likely to get Hulk-buster than Agent Venom Progress will be slow, but I just don't understand how pure RNG, as it was pre-change, is better than some element of control where you can pull the characters you need (whether it is a missing roster slot for essentials or in an attempt to get those last couple of covers to champion them) If you just want champion levels then sure, you will get less spread across the roster... but for targeted levelling of characters, this way IS better. And while I agree the implementation had MANY faults, Vaulting in some manner IS needed to address dilution in a way that does not mean that the same old characters becomes the only high level characters on a roster, creating a stale game. Sure, I would have done it slightly differently... but at the same time, if I am honest, I cannot state categorically that what I would have done would have been better... Nothing that has been suggested so far really does it any better... if there are 31 4* in the proposed Classic Tokens, your odds of getting the 4* you want is still less than the Bonus Hero% and will continue to get worse as characters move out of latest in to classic... so not actually solving the dilution problem at all... (2.7% for the record) Now I really WANT colourless tokens and making all BONUS HEROES colourless would go some way to making the vaulting more palettable... But for me, Vaulting is needed and Bonus Heroes lets everyone keep finding the characters they really need.
OneLastGambit wrote: Tromb2ch2 wrote: Gmax101 wrote: Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up You can't pull 4* from standard tokens. They confirmed this in one of the podcasts. Then I'm afraid their pod cast is wrong unless this has changed recently. In Oct 2016 I pulled KP black from a standard.
Crnch73 wrote: Gmax101 wrote: But prior to this change, what was your option? The only difference between now and then is that you have you used to have a small chance of getting it in the tokens naturally, and I accept that tiny is better than 0% but in that scenario you have 0 control over when you get the covers other than via the aforementioned progression/placement routes.... By your own admission you are reliant on tokens.... Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up Heroic Token - roughly a 0.023*0.14 = 0.3% Event Tokens - roughly the same as heroic... 0.33% Legendary Tokens - roughly 1.9% Thing is, if Hulkbuster is a priority for you then why wouldn't you maximise your chances of getting him by adding as your only bonus.... ok, so the others not in the vault will not get any covers.... but if this is your current priority then you are clearly better off to do it that way Standard Token - oddly, if you pull ANY 4* cover from here then in theory you will automatically trigger the bonus... Heroic Token - 13% chance of a 4* x 17% chance of a bonus... = 2.3% Event tokens - 14.5% x 17% of bonus = 2.4% Legendary = 85% * 5% = 4.25% So assuming the same level of pull rate, you are 43x more likely to get him from Standards, 8x more likely from Heroic/Event and over 2x more likely to get him from Legendary's... even having 2 Bonus Heroes at a time still gives you a next gain... Which, if you compare that to Agent Venom (I will assume that he is not a favourite ) Standard Token - he will be random IF you pull a 4* but only 1/12 of the time (HB 12x more likely to be pulled) Heroic Token - he will be at 1.14% (HB ~ 2x more likely to be pulled) Event Tokens - he will be 1.21% (HB ~ 2x more likely to be pulled) Legendary = 7% (AV ~ 1.6x more likely to be pulled) So other than Legendary tokens, you are more likely to get Hulk-buster than Agent Venom Progress will be slow, but I just don't understand how pure RNG, as it was pre-change, is better than some element of control where you can pull the characters you need (whether it is a missing roster slot for essentials or in an attempt to get those last couple of covers to champion them) If you just want champion levels then sure, you will get less spread across the roster... but for targeted levelling of characters, this way IS better. And while I agree the implementation had MANY faults, Vaulting in some manner IS needed to address dilution in a way that does not mean that the same old characters becomes the only high level characters on a roster, creating a stale game. Sure, I would have done it slightly differently... but at the same time, if I am honest, I cannot state categorically that what I would have done would have been better... Nothing that has been suggested so far really does it any better... if there are 31 4* in the proposed Classic Tokens, your odds of getting the 4* you want is still less than the Bonus Hero% and will continue to get worse as characters move out of latest in to classic... so not actually solving the dilution problem at all... (2.7% for the record) Now I really WANT colourless tokens and making all BONUS HEROES colourless would go some way to making the vaulting more palettable... But for me, Vaulting is needed and Bonus Heroes lets everyone keep finding the characters they really need. In all honesty, .... <Snip> At this point, it just feels like they put most of my roster in retirement mode, and then said "We will tell you exactly who to build!"
Jaedenkaal wrote: OneLastGambit wrote: Tromb2ch2 wrote: Gmax101 wrote: Standard Token - Smallest of small chances.... so small that they don't even show 4* as an option even though it might turn up You can't pull 4* from standard tokens. They confirmed this in one of the podcasts. Then I'm afraid their pod cast is wrong unless this has changed recently. In Oct 2016 I pulled KP black from a standard. By logical deduction I can only conclude that you must be Chuck Norris.
OneLastGambit wrote: This made me laugh. I have actually done it 3 times since joining the game 450 odd days ago. The KP Black is just the most recent. None since then so perhaps they have changed it now.
Jaedenkaal wrote: OneLastGambit wrote: This made me laugh. I have actually done it 3 times since joining the game 450 odd days ago. The KP Black is just the most recent. None since then so perhaps they have changed it now. I actually seem to recall doing it once or twice as well, but not for a long time, and human memory is an amazingly subjective and inaccurate thing.
GurlBYE wrote: Anecdotal yes, but it sucks really hard now. The double gating of RNG made the "oh well at least I can use this cover" of random legendaries feel now a lot more like "Oh no bonus? well guess I won't be getting covers for red hulk right now" (or iceman, jean, champ levels for cyc, or prof x's last purple, or more covers for punisher max, or my first carnage black, or other colors for my 5 red hulk buster, or more covers for war machine or winter soldier who began to pop for me pretty decently pre-vaulting, or nova)
Fightmastermpq wrote: GurlBYE wrote: Anecdotal yes, but it sucks really hard now. The double gating of RNG made the "oh well at least I can use this cover" of random legendaries feel now a lot more like "Oh no bonus? well guess I won't be getting covers for red hulk right now" (or iceman, jean, champ levels for cyc, or prof x's last purple, or more covers for punisher max, or my first carnage black, or other colors for my 5 red hulk buster, or more covers for war machine or winter soldier who began to pop for me pretty decently pre-vaulting, or nova) And on the flip side you won't pull a cover and be thinking "oh great, another new 4* that will sit on my roster undercovered for the next year before I even think about using them," because you'll be pulling covers for them all the time and be able to use them MUCH sooner than every character you mentioned.