Am I the only one who recognizes how great Bonus Heroes are?

broll

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Give me a break. Only an idiot would set a 5/5/0 4* as a bonus hero, and that problem would exist without this system anyway. Adding in that 33% chance for a useful cover artificially decreases the odds to help make your point. If you have a 5/5/0 that you really want champed you wait for that 3rd color to pop up in rewards or a vault and then fight/spend like hell for it. Then you can finish with 240 CP if you really really want to. None of these problems are unique to the new bonus heroes/vault system. Also, don't forget that 4*s come from other tokens too - not just CP.

If the point of this is to level the characters you want and that's the character you want and the system makes it 'idiotic' to do so, then the system is fatally flawed.

I'm glad you love this system, I can see why you do, it's like trickle down Reaganomics. The rich get richer and the gap between 5* vets and everyone else continues to widen, but it's not good for the game.

OneLastGambit

broll wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Give me a break. No one would set a 5/5/0 4* as a bonus hero, and that problem would exist without this system anyway. Adding in that 33% chance for a useful cover artificially decreases the odds to help make your point. If you have a 5/5/0 that you really want champed you wait for that 3rd color to pop up in rewards or a vault and then fight/spend like hell for it. Then you can finish with 240 CP if you really really want to. None of these problems are unique to the new bonus heroes/vault system. Also, don't forget that 4*s come from other tokens too - not just CP.

If the point of this is to level the characters you want and that's the character you want and the system makes it 'idiotic' to do so, then the system is fatally flawed.

I'm glad you love this system, I can see why you do, it's like trickle down Reaganomics. The rich get richer and the gap between 5* vets and everyone else continues to widen, but it's not good for the game.

As he said though, this new system did not create the problem of getting a 5/5/0 character so why blame the new system for that? RNG creates that issue. My Teen Jean (1/5/5) built entirely in the old system is evidence of that.

SnowcaTT

Jarvind wrote:

Bonus Heroes by itself would be great. Vaulting old characters so it takes years to acquire them is stupid.

So much this, and I'm not surprised it has more thumb-up than OP. Shocked the OP has as many thumbs as it does...good thing there are not negative votes anymore.

Guess I might as well pull my (small) hoard in latests, since there isn't much point anymore eh? 28 draws. Next season: 13 (nearly 18) dead draws out of 36 covers that are possible to draw starting next season. Almost half already....when I had a 85% "will use" cover draws a few days ago.

The other difference: I have essentially as much ISO as anyone just starting out. And I'm not getting more because I can't get sweet champ rewards. And I'm not getting into 4*/5* land any faster than new players, because I can't get (you guessed it) all those sweet champ rewards.

So will soon be equal! That's just spiffy. Glad time spent in game (hours or days) matters so little to the devs.

Fightmastermpq

SnowcaTT wrote:

Jarvind wrote:

Bonus Heroes by itself would be great. Vaulting old characters so it takes years to acquire them is stupid.

So much this, and I'm not surprised it has more thumb-up than OP. Shocked the OP has as many thumbs as it does...good thing there are not negative votes anymore.

Guess I might as well pull my (small) hoard in latests, since there isn't much point anymore eh? 28 draws. Next season: 13 (nearly 18) dead draws out of 36 covers that are possible to draw starting next season. Almost half already....when I had a 85% "will use" cover draws a few days ago.

The other difference: I have essentially as much ISO as anyone just starting out. And I'm not getting more because I can't get sweet champ rewards. And I'm not getting into 4*/5* land any faster than new players, because I can't get (you guessed it) all those sweet champ rewards.

So will soon be equal! That's just spiffy. Glad time spent in game (hours or days) matters so little to the devs.

It has a lot of upboats because it's well thought out and reasoned despite being unpopular. They removed downvotes because of people like you that would downvote for having a different opinion rather than just being bad posts.

The problem that you and everyone else is having is incredibly short-sighted. Right now, today, this system sucks for almost everyone. Very few people saw an increase in usable pulls this week. I'm sitting on TEN (10) Wasp covers in my rewards right now needing about 4 more days to champ her and apply them. But fast forward 2-4 months and you are in a spot where every single one of the 12 newest 4*s is either champed, or needing covers to be champed. And so for you and MANY more people your 85% usefulness will actually increase to close to 100% (the 5/5/x's being the last hurdle to 100%).

I agree and am also concerned about the speed of progress through the 320-370 levels and those nicer rewards coming in more slowly, but honestly I think being able to select a bonus hero (3 would be better) and get them to 370 quickly, while also having no wasted covers and still earning placement/progression 4*s for older characters will make up for it. I'm also interested to see how high these newest 4*s get on average before they rotate out.

broll

OneLastGambit wrote:

broll wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Give me a break. No one would set a 5/5/0 4* as a bonus hero, and that problem would exist without this system anyway. Adding in that 33% chance for a useful cover artificially decreases the odds to help make your point. If you have a 5/5/0 that you really want champed you wait for that 3rd color to pop up in rewards or a vault and then fight/spend like hell for it. Then you can finish with 240 CP if you really really want to. None of these problems are unique to the new bonus heroes/vault system. Also, don't forget that 4*s come from other tokens too - not just CP.

If the point of this is to level the characters you want and that's the character you want and the system makes it 'idiotic' to do so, then the system is fatally flawed.

I'm glad you love this system, I can see why you do, it's like trickle down Reaganomics. The rich get richer and the gap between 5* vets and everyone else continues to widen, but it's not good for the game.

As he said though, this new system did not create the problem of getting a 5/5/0 character so why blame the new system for that? RNG creates that issue. My Teen Jean (1/5/5) built entirely in the old system is evidence of that.

My point was that they choose to make it WORSE instead of making it better. They took the RNG problem and compounded it by making it 3 layers deep of RNG.

We just got our ride pimped:

OneLastGambit

broll wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

broll wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Give me a break. No one would set a 5/5/0 4* as a bonus hero, and that problem would exist without this system anyway. Adding in that 33% chance for a useful cover artificially decreases the odds to help make your point. If you have a 5/5/0 that you really want champed you wait for that 3rd color to pop up in rewards or a vault and then fight/spend like hell for it. Then you can finish with 240 CP if you really really want to. None of these problems are unique to the new bonus heroes/vault system. Also, don't forget that 4*s come from other tokens too - not just CP.

If the point of this is to level the characters you want and that's the character you want and the system makes it 'idiotic' to do so, then the system is fatally flawed.

I'm glad you love this system, I can see why you do, it's like trickle down Reaganomics. The rich get richer and the gap between 5* vets and everyone else continues to widen, but it's not good for the game.

As he said though, this new system did not create the problem of getting a 5/5/0 character so why blame the new system for that? RNG creates that issue. My Teen Jean (1/5/5) built entirely in the old system is evidence of that.

My point was that they choose to make it WORSE instead of making it better. They took the RNG problem and compounded it by making it 3 layers deep of RNG.

We just got our ride pimped:

Im not sure at which point in my message I said "I enjoy rng" all I was doing is saying that getting a 5/5/0 character is a separate issue from bonus heroes.

Blaming bonus heroes for giving you a 5/5/0 character is like adding 2+2 and ending up with fish.

I dislike RNG too (see aforementioned Jean) I hate it so much that I spent CP on finishing Bucky (I'm a big fan) rather than rely on my prayers to RNGesus to do it for me. Most of the time (despite my dislike) I am happy to rely on RNG but every now and then I will renounce RNGesus and save up CP instead. Now if only you could buy the first cover with CP too then we could truly control our progress...albeit very slowly.

broll

OneLastGambit wrote:

Im not sure at which point in my message I said "I enjoy rng" all I was doing is saying that getting a 5/5/0 character is a separate issue from bonus heroes.

Since you're on the internet I assumed you were fluent in meme speak, google xzibit meme (or yo dawg )if you're lost, I'm not wasting time explaining it to you...

OneLastGambit wrote:

Blaming bonus heroes for giving you a 5/5/0 character is like adding 2+2 and ending up with fish.

I'm not blaming it for that. My point is that if we are given the option to select favorites, it's fairly good odds as some point they will get to 5 covers of 1 if not 2 slots. At that point someone suggest it's 'idiotic' to have them Favorited. So if that's true then this system will not produce champions, just near champions.

The other part of my point is they took an existing chronic problem and didn't ignore it, but in fact made it even worse by compounding the problem on itself. I'm not going to cheer for that, sorry.

OneLastGambit wrote:

I dislike RNG too (see aforementioned Jean) I hate it so much that I spent CP on finishing Bucky (I'm a big fan) rather than rely on my prayers to RNGesus to do it for me. Most of the time (despite my dislike) I am happy to rely on RNG but every now and then I will renounce RNGesus and save up CP instead. Now if only you could buy the first cover with CP too then we could truly control our progress...albeit very slowly.

So your proposed strategy is we just buy the covers with CP. Something most of the community has said for a long time is a bad idea and not a good value and you even admit to hating? Also if we moved to just buying covers with CP we'd be side stepping most of this wonderful change. If side stepping it is the fix, then the change isn't good...

OneLastGambit

broll wrote:

So your proposed strategy is we just buy the covers with CP. Something most of the community has said for a long time is a bad idea and not a good value and you even admit to hating? Also if we moved to just buying covers with CP we'd be side stepping most of this wonderful change. If side stepping it is the fix, then the change isn't good...

I don't think it is a terrible idea. The community might but from my perspective I decided that targeting improvement on a character I either like or need rather than relying on luck to do it seems fairly sensible. the price of said targeting doesn't really concern me since the resources on this game are not finite anyway. I can theoretically gather resources forever they don't run out after day 1031. Recently the CP availability has been ramped up quite a bit so I'm even less concerned these days with the supposed preciousness of CP.

Disgard the price for a second and ask yourself which is better:

hoping that luck will grant you the one cover that you need

-or-

guaranteeing yourself that cover?

Lets go one step farther. If its widely acknowledged that your odds of getting the one cover you want via pulls is 1.5% then it would take (in theory) 105 pulls for RNGesus to grant your wish... alternatively you could "spend" 6 pulls guaranteeing you get it.

This strategy does get shaky if you are aiming for 5* or are happy obtaining any other 4* but if you are targeting one specific 4* cover it's actually more cost effective to simply buy the cover.

EDIT: I was not familiar with that Meme, I'm online but I'm not hip to the popular internet dialect of meme speak. Sorry about that misinterpretation.

broll

OneLastGambit wrote:

broll wrote:

So your proposed strategy is we just buy the covers with CP. Something most of the community has said for a long time is a bad idea and not a good value and you even admit to hating? Also if we moved to just buying covers with CP we'd be side stepping most of this wonderful change. If side stepping it is the fix, then the change isn't good...

I don't think it is a terrible idea. The community might but from my perspective I decided that targeting improvement on a character I either like or need rather than relying on luck to do it seems fairly sensible. the price of said targeting doesn't really concern me since the resources on this game are not finite anyway. I can theoretically gather resources forever they don't run out after day 1031. Recently the CP availability has been ramped up quite a bit so I'm even less concerned these days with the supposed preciousness of CP.

Disgard the price for a second and ask yourself which is better:

hoping that luck will grant you the one cover that you need

-or-

guaranteeing yourself that cover?

Lets go one step farther. If its widely acknowledged that your odds of getting the one cover you want via pulls is 1.5% then it would take (in theory) 105 pulls for RNGesus to grant your wish... alternatively you could "spend" 6 pulls guaranteeing you get it.

This strategy does get shaky if you are aiming for 5* or are happy obtaining any other 4* but if you are targeting one specific 4* cover it's actually more cost effective to simply buy the cover.

EDIT: I was not familiar with that Meme, I'm online but I'm not hip to the popular internet dialect of meme speak. Sorry about that misinterpretation.

So you're agreeing that rather than focusing on the new system we should whenever possible side step it and just buy the covers. How does this make the system good then? We could do that before...

Gmax101

broll wrote:

Yes so let's say he favorites them 1 by 1 for optimal odds at getting them. His odds for getting that characters are less than 5% per CP pull.

So each 400 pulls on average he should get 1 bonus cover and there's a chance (I think it's like 85% chance it's a 4*) that it's a 5* and not a 4* which is why I list less than 5%. Then on top of that if the character he needs is 5/5/0 there's only a 33%% chance on top of that the bonus cover is usable.

5% * 85% * 33% = 1.4025%
So slightly better than 1 in 100 chance. 100 Classic pulls is 4000 CP.

So someone trying to get 1 pull for a 5/5/0 might have to wait to build up 4000 CP to get it... If that person who get 100 CP a month, that's 40 months. Yeah he should be thrilled.

EDIT:
Also if the odds of getting a 4* from CP only put you getting 1 per 400 CP, the argument of weather or not it's just better to buy it with CP for 120 has suddenly changed quite a bit...

Not convinced your maths is right. We are assuming I have 1 or each tier selected as a bonus hero that is NOT in the packs...

1 in 20 pulls from a Legendary token is a bonus hero... and of that roughly 3/20 of those are his 5* and the other 17/20 are the 4* which gives you a 4% chance per pull of your 4* and 1% of your 5*

Prior to bonus heroes, the chance of one of those being his preferred 4 drop was 1.9% or something... and for the 5* its about 1.7%


20 pulls of classic is 400 CP. At which point barring RNG hatred he has a Bonus character which is either his ideal 4* or his ideal 5*

If I pull 100 classic pulls (2000CP not 4000 as you quoted) I should get 4 covers of my preferred 4 drop and 1 cover of my preferred 5 drop IN ADDITION to the covers from the actual covers in the tokens...



So if you want a specific 4 drop, how are you even remotely worse off, having 2 4* Favourites gives you roughly the same chance of getting covers for them as they were before this feature.


There are two main arguments being levied at this feature...

Argument 1 - That the flow of champion levels across the board will slow down because heroes are not in legendary packs... so those with wide rosters who now miss out on champion levels on their older 4* are likely to be frustrated.... I'm losing a lot of champion levels as about 18 of my championed 4* are not in the tokens anymore...

but I still don't buy it as an argument. Those missing champion levels will be replaced with champ levels on the newer characters... they aren't getting less 4* covers, they are in fact getting more 4* covers, and instead of them ALL being randomly selected other than progression, now you know what you are getting.... the packs give you a selection more reliable selection of heroes and the extra free covers will be ONLY of characters I have chosen (whether to try and fully cover them or just for champ levels)... so if I want to spend some time building up Iceman or HB then I can... without affecting their progress on the newer 4 stars, and at a faster rate than that character was going to progress before this... (assuming I only favourite a couple of the 4* and that means I can cycle through the characters I use and ignore the ones I don't...)

Argument 2 - is that it is harder to roster everyone if you haven't already got the older ones in order to support the essential requirements or just collect them all... but again, it is now far easier to get the missing ones from your roster, and you only need a couple of covers to beat the new DDQ node. And those covers will also come faster if you are sensible about prioritising the favourites. So new players get more covers of the key 3* and new 4* and if there is one they want to get from the older selection then they can pick the favourites accordingly.

Aside from that there will be people who are in difficult positions on a case by case basis (none of the new 4* rostered and no HP to get them for example, and that might be an issue, but if they want usable 4* then focusing on the new ones will get them there much faster now), and I can sympathise.

But I do not consider this the disaster that so many on the forums do. I actually quite like it. (but then all my 4* outside of the new 12 are max covered even if not championed)


Your argument that the cover not be of use to a 5/5/0 character has nothing to do with this new function... that is an RNG issue and I think EVERYONE would prefer colourless covers...

OneLastGambit

broll wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

broll wrote:

So your proposed strategy is we just buy the covers with CP. Something most of the community has said for a long time is a bad idea and not a good value and you even admit to hating? Also if we moved to just buying covers with CP we'd be side stepping most of this wonderful change. If side stepping it is the fix, then the change isn't good...

I don't think it is a terrible idea. The community might but from my perspective I decided that targeting improvement on a character I either like or need rather than relying on luck to do it seems fairly sensible. the price of said targeting doesn't really concern me since the resources on this game are not finite anyway. I can theoretically gather resources forever they don't run out after day 1031. Recently the CP availability has been ramped up quite a bit so I'm even less concerned these days with the supposed preciousness of CP.

Disgard the price for a second and ask yourself which is better:

hoping that luck will grant you the one cover that you need

-or-

guaranteeing yourself that cover?

Lets go one step farther. If its widely acknowledged that your odds of getting the one cover you want via pulls is 1.5% then it would take (in theory) 105 pulls for RNGesus to grant your wish... alternatively you could "spend" 6 pulls guaranteeing you get it.

This strategy does get shaky if you are aiming for 5* or are happy obtaining any other 4* but if you are targeting one specific 4* cover it's actually more cost effective to simply buy the cover.

EDIT: I was not familiar with that Meme, I'm online but I'm not hip to the popular internet dialect of meme speak. Sorry about that misinterpretation.

So you're agreeing that rather than focusing on the new system we should whenever possible side step it and just buy the covers. How does this make the system good then? We could do that before...

Not quite right, I'd say sidestep when necessary - not when possible. I advocated the same in the old system too. If a character is in the New 12 then I would keep pulling until 1 or 2 covers remained then buy the final 1 or 2.

I'm not sure how doing this would be sidestepping this wonderful new feature. It would be using the feature more efficiently - IF - you were only focussing on one character. If you were happy with any of the 12 then keep going.

mohio

I'm too late to this thread to really jump into the arguments but I did want to say a couple things.

1) The past 2 days I've been thinking the exact thing as the subject line here. I have been dumbfounded by how negatively everyone is perceiving this, and I think they are just too short-sighted as fightmaster points out, and thinking far too emotionally about it as opposed to critically/logically.

2) To the guy who has threatened to quit in every thread about the change - I seriously wonder how many tokens you were pulling before this change? Given the amount you say you play, you maybe get 2 heroic/event tokens per day on average? You get maybe 20-40 cp per week? If I'm being generous, that's around 100 LT pulls and ~700 heroics per YEAR. You could expect to pull around 130 4* out of tokens in a full year. Under the old system, that's 3 covers per character. How is that progress? I fail to see how the new system isn't advantageous for you and others in your same position.

I'm sorry to pick on the guy in point 2, but I think it is a good illustration of why this is being so overblown. Most people probably think they pull more 4* from tokens than they actually do. Yes there are individual cases where people are going to be hurt by this change, but the majority of people will end up better off than they were before.

n25philly

mohio wrote:

I'm too late to this thread to really jump into the arguments but I did want to say a couple things.

1) The past 2 days I've been thinking the exact thing as the subject line here. I have been dumbfounded by how negatively everyone is perceiving this, and I think they are just too short-sighted as fightmaster points out, and thinking far too emotionally about it as opposed to critically/logically.

2) To the guy who has threatened to quit in every thread about the change - I seriously wonder how many tokens you were pulling before this change? Given the amount you say you play, you maybe get 2 heroic/event tokens per day on average? You get maybe 20-40 cp per week? If I'm being generous, that's around 100 LT pulls and ~700 heroics per YEAR. You could expect to pull around 130 4* out of tokens in a full year. Under the old system, that's 3 covers per character. How is that progress? I fail to see how the new system isn't advantageous for you and others in your same position.

Yeah, except thanks to now clicking clock I would have to pull token for characters I wouldn't have HP to roster, iso to level before the clock runs out and they get relegated to the vault and I get to fall behind again. I have not pulled a since heroic or legendary since the change as the odds of pulling something I can't roster is just way too high. Forced hording now. Not that I want to pull any token now since I can't add champ levels to half my 3*'s unless I get lucky with rng withing rng. So basically the choice is to sit a force hoard until I have the resources to deal with 12 4* characters which will take forever or be stuck going nowhere unless I pony up tons of cash on a regular basis. Why should I keep playing again inside of an intentionally broken and casual unfriendly system?

n25philly

At least with the old system, or if they kept the new without vaulting I would be able to actually work on my roster even if it was really slow.

crackninja

My frustration with the change is that I have a lot of 4*'s that I've worked to 7-10 covers that are now mostly a waste because instead of being within reach of championing them, I'm better off giving up on completely except for the part where I also can't drop them due to pve essentials and ddq. Fortunately I can win most of the crashes now, but I'd be pretty annoyed if I were newer and would have little chance at being able to build up for those before 2020.

OneLastGambit

mohio wrote:

I'm too late to this thread to really jump into the arguments but I did want to say a couple things.

1) The past 2 days I've been thinking the exact thing as the subject line here. I have been dumbfounded by how negatively everyone is perceiving this, and I think they are just too short-sighted as fightmaster points out, and thinking far too emotionally about it as opposed to critically/logically.

2) To the guy who has threatened to quit in every thread about the change - I seriously wonder how many tokens you were pulling before this change? Given the amount you say you play, you maybe get 2 heroic/event tokens per day on average? You get maybe 20-40 cp per week? If I'm being generous, that's around 100 LT pulls and ~700 heroics per YEAR. You could expect to pull around 130 4* out of tokens in a full year. Under the old system, that's 3 covers per character. How is that progress? I fail to see how the new system isn't advantageous for you and others in your same position.

I'm sorry to pick on the guy in point 2, but I think it is a good illustration of why this is being so overblown. Most people probably think they pull more 4* from tokens than they actually do. Yes there are individual cases where people are going to be hurt by this change, but the majority of people will end up better off than they were before.

Whilst I agree with this (very well reasoned) argument I can also agree with those that say that championing those same characters in time will be quite tough but not impossible.

Hell I champed Falcap from 121 to 270 in 9 days once. It was an insane grind but it was doable

Fightmastermpq

n25philly wrote:

mohio wrote:

I'm too late to this thread to really jump into the arguments but I did want to say a couple things.

1) The past 2 days I've been thinking the exact thing as the subject line here. I have been dumbfounded by how negatively everyone is perceiving this, and I think they are just too short-sighted as fightmaster points out, and thinking far too emotionally about it as opposed to critically/logically.

2) To the guy who has threatened to quit in every thread about the change - I seriously wonder how many tokens you were pulling before this change? Given the amount you say you play, you maybe get 2 heroic/event tokens per day on average? You get maybe 20-40 cp per week? If I'm being generous, that's around 100 LT pulls and ~700 heroics per YEAR. You could expect to pull around 130 4* out of tokens in a full year. Under the old system, that's 3 covers per character. How is that progress? I fail to see how the new system isn't advantageous for you and others in your same position.

Yeah, except thanks to now clicking clock I would have to pull token for characters I wouldn't have HP to roster, iso to level before the clock runs out and they get relegated to the vault and I get to fall behind again. I have not pulled a since heroic or legendary since the change as the odds of pulling something I can't roster is just way too high. Forced hording now. Not that I want to pull any token now since I can't add champ levels to half my 3*'s unless I get lucky with rng withing rng. So basically the choice is to sit a force hoard until I have the resources to deal with 12 4* characters which will take forever or be stuck going nowhere unless I pony up tons of cash on a regular basis. Why should I keep playing again inside of an intentionally broken and casual unfriendly system?

You are inventing problems to hate this new system just because it's different. Forget about what you wanted to do, and what you had planned to do - start thinking about what you CAN do now.....

First of all any HP shortages you have are not unique to this new system. You should be able to make more than 1k HP every 2 weeks to keep up with new releases and also have a bit left over to help you catch up. If not, spend. If you aren't willing to spend then you will be faced with all the same tough roster management decisions that you were faced with previously, so there is no reason to complain about that as if it's new.

The benefit now though is your HP needs are actually much less now. Previously you would avoid opening for fear of getting a character that you don't have rostered and be forced to sell it. The risk of that happening now is SIGNIFICANTLY less because when you pull you KNOW you are only going to get 1 of 12 characters. So take a hard look at those 12 characters and compare them to your roster. Do you have a single cover Elektra taking up space? Sell her - and the same goes for all other garbage tier characters with 1 or 2 covers, post your roster if you really want help with this, but you can probably make some space by dropping weak characters that you won't ever pull covers for anyway. How much room you need to make depends on how you value the 12 newest 4*s, and how quickly you earn 4* tokens. Peggy for example is a top tier 4* - the best of the best.......but she will be rotating out soon. If you don't already have her rostered maybe you just commit to selling any of her draws for the time being. Carol is newer, top tier, and should be there for a while so you probably want to make room for her. Venom on the other hand is garbage and even if he were sticking around for a while you could comfortably sell him without ever missing it as you would likely rarely play him anyway.

Lastly, depending on where you are with these characters you might have to start hoarding for a while as you wait to catch up on champing these newer characters. Much like the old system you want to pull tokens until you get one that you can't use, champ that characters, and then move on. The focus should be on the newest characters. If your ISO earn rate is high enough you will find yourself in a spot where no cover is ever wasted. If your ISO rate isn't high enough you will be forced into the same tough decisions that you were forced into before.

So in the not too distant future you will definitely be getting these newer characters to a usable level much quicker than you would be under the old system. And for the older characters that you were pretty close to finishing? Set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off one by one - it will likely be faster than you would have finished them otherwise since you now have a 1/20 chance to pull them compared to the previous 1/45.

Finally, if your ISO/token earn rate is so slow that you can't get these new characters covered in the 6 months that they are available (I think 6 months is right isn't it? 12 characters @ 2 weeks apart is 24 weeks or ~6 months? Maybe a little longer when you add in 5* releases???) So you'll have 6 months to grab Mordo/Coulson once they get in there and say you just aren't able to grab the 13 covers that you need in that time.....no worries, set them as your bonus hero upon exit until you finish them.

At the end of the day this change means that EVERYONE gets new characters from 0 to 13 covers MUCH faster (probably better than 3x faster) than they did under the previous system, and so that will necessarily help newer players without any 4*s transition into the 4* tier MUCH quicker than they did previously.

Look, I know I come off as a jerk, but at the end of the day I love this game like most everyone else, and I want it to be successful. I want to help others work with it so that they maximize the amount of fun that they have. If you want me to help you work through your roster and plans just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to. I'll even promise to be nice about it.

Fightmastermpq

crackninja wrote:

My frustration with the change is that I have a lot of 4*'s that I've worked to 7-10 covers that are now mostly a waste because instead of being within reach of championing them, I'm better off giving up on completely except for the part where I also can't drop them due to pve essentials and ddq. Fortunately I can win most of the crashes now, but I'd be pretty annoyed if I were newer and would have little chance at being able to build up for those before 2020.

You are the type of player that really is getting hit the hardest with this change. If you have like 10-20 of the older 4*s that are at that 7-10 cover range that borders on real usefulness this really does suck. Before now you were 25-50% to pull something that would make a real impact to your roster, now that drops to 5% until you can finish them off 1 or 2 at a time. All I can say is - pick your favorite 4* of the bunch and try to take comfort in knowing that they will get maxed sooner than they would have previously while all the rest are about the same or a tad slower.

OneLastGambit

Fightmastermpq wrote:

n25philly wrote:

mohio wrote:

I'm too late to this thread to really jump into the arguments but I did want to say a couple things.

1) The past 2 days I've been thinking the exact thing as the subject line here. I have been dumbfounded by how negatively everyone is perceiving this, and I think they are just too short-sighted as fightmaster points out, and thinking far too emotionally about it as opposed to critically/logically.

2) To the guy who has threatened to quit in every thread about the change - I seriously wonder how many tokens you were pulling before this change? Given the amount you say you play, you maybe get 2 heroic/event tokens per day on average? You get maybe 20-40 cp per week? If I'm being generous, that's around 100 LT pulls and ~700 heroics per YEAR. You could expect to pull around 130 4* out of tokens in a full year. Under the old system, that's 3 covers per character. How is that progress? I fail to see how the new system isn't advantageous for you and others in your same position.

Yeah, except thanks to now clicking clock I would have to pull token for characters I wouldn't have HP to roster, iso to level before the clock runs out and they get relegated to the vault and I get to fall behind again. I have not pulled a since heroic or legendary since the change as the odds of pulling something I can't roster is just way too high. Forced hording now. Not that I want to pull any token now since I can't add champ levels to half my 3*'s unless I get lucky with rng withing rng. So basically the choice is to sit a force hoard until I have the resources to deal with 12 4* characters which will take forever or be stuck going nowhere unless I pony up tons of cash on a regular basis. Why should I keep playing again inside of an intentionally broken and casual unfriendly system?

You are inventing problems to hate this new system just because it's different. Forget about what you wanted to do, and what you had planned to do - start thinking about what you CAN do now.....

First of all any HP shortages you have are not unique to this new system. You should be able to make more than 1k HP every 2 weeks to keep up with new releases and also have a bit left over to help you catch up. If not, spend. If you aren't willing to spend then you will be faced with all the same tough roster management decisions that you were faced with previously, so there is no reason to complain about that as if it's new.

The benefit now though is your HP needs are actually much less now. Previously you would avoid opening for fear of getting a character that you don't have rostered and be forced to sell it. The risk of that happening now is SIGNIFICANTLY less because when you pull you KNOW you are only going to get 1 of 12 characters. So take a hard look at those 12 characters and compare them to your roster. Do you have a single cover Elektra taking up space? Sell her - and the same goes for all other garbage tier characters with 1 or 2 covers, post your roster if you really want help with this, but you can probably make some space by dropping weak characters that you won't ever pull covers for anyway. How much room you need to make depends on how you value the 12 newest 4*s, and how quickly you earn 4* tokens. Peggy for example is a top tier 4* - the best of the best.......but she will be rotating out soon. If you don't already have her rostered maybe you just commit to selling any of her draws for the time being. Carol is newer, top tier, and should be there for a while so you probably want to make room for her. Venom on the other hand is garbage and even if he were sticking around for a while you could comfortably sell him without ever missing it as you would likely rarely play him anyway.

Lastly, depending on where you are with these characters you might have to start hoarding for a while as you wait to catch up on champing these newer characters. Much like the old system you want to pull tokens until you get one that you can't use, champ that characters, and then move on. The focus should be on the newest characters. If your ISO earn rate is high enough you will find yourself in a spot where no cover is ever wasted. If your ISO rate isn't high enough you will be forced into the same tough decisions that you were forced into before.

So in the not too distant future you will definitely be getting these newer characters to a usable level much quicker than you would be under the old system. And for the older characters that you were pretty close to finishing? Set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off one by one - it will likely be faster than you would have finished them otherwise since you now have a 1/20 chance to pull them compared to the previous 1/45.

Finally, if your ISO/token earn rate is so slow that you can't get these new characters covered in the 6 months that they are available (I think 6 months is right isn't it? 12 characters @ 2 weeks apart is 24 weeks or ~6 months? Maybe a little longer when you add in 5* releases???) So you'll have 6 months to grab Mordo/Coulson once they get in there and say you just aren't able to grab the 13 covers that you need in that time.....no worries, set them as your bonus hero upon exit until you finish them.

At the end of the day this change means that EVERYONE gets new characters from 0 to 13 covers MUCH faster (probably better than 3x faster) than they did under the previous system, and so that will necessarily help newer players without any 4*s transition into the 4* tier MUCH quicker than they did previously.

Look, I know I come off as a jerk, but at the end of the day I love this game like most everyone else, and I want it to be successful. I want to help others work with it so that they maximize the amount of fun that they have. If you want me to help you work through your roster and plans just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to. I'll even promise to be nice about it.

This sounds dangerously like a reasonable suggestion. Like you say, the 4* transition will be quicker and easier for those in that transition now (they will just be transitioning into different characters instead of ICE/HB/etc).

FYI none of that sounded jerkish? jerky? Jerkful? Not sure which is correct

n25philly

Fightmastermpq wrote:

n25philly wrote:

mohio wrote:

I'm too late to this thread to really jump into the arguments but I did want to say a couple things.

1) The past 2 days I've been thinking the exact thing as the subject line here. I have been dumbfounded by how negatively everyone is perceiving this, and I think they are just too short-sighted as fightmaster points out, and thinking far too emotionally about it as opposed to critically/logically.

2) To the guy who has threatened to quit in every thread about the change - I seriously wonder how many tokens you were pulling before this change? Given the amount you say you play, you maybe get 2 heroic/event tokens per day on average? You get maybe 20-40 cp per week? If I'm being generous, that's around 100 LT pulls and ~700 heroics per YEAR. You could expect to pull around 130 4* out of tokens in a full year. Under the old system, that's 3 covers per character. How is that progress? I fail to see how the new system isn't advantageous for you and others in your same position.

Yeah, except thanks to now clicking clock I would have to pull token for characters I wouldn't have HP to roster, iso to level before the clock runs out and they get relegated to the vault and I get to fall behind again. I have not pulled a since heroic or legendary since the change as the odds of pulling something I can't roster is just way too high. Forced hording now. Not that I want to pull any token now since I can't add champ levels to half my 3*'s unless I get lucky with rng withing rng. So basically the choice is to sit a force hoard until I have the resources to deal with 12 4* characters which will take forever or be stuck going nowhere unless I pony up tons of cash on a regular basis. Why should I keep playing again inside of an intentionally broken and casual unfriendly system?

You are inventing problems to hate this new system just because it's different. Forget about what you wanted to do, and what you had planned to do - start thinking about what you CAN do now.....

First of all any HP shortages you have are not unique to this new system. You should be able to make more than 1k HP every 2 weeks to keep up with new releases and also have a bit left over to help you catch up. If not, spend. If you aren't willing to spend then you will be faced with all the same tough roster management decisions that you were faced with previously, so there is no reason to complain about that as if it's new.

The benefit now though is your HP needs are actually much less now. Previously you would avoid opening for fear of getting a character that you don't have rostered and be forced to sell it. The risk of that happening now is SIGNIFICANTLY less because when you pull you KNOW you are only going to get 1 of 12 characters. So take a hard look at those 12 characters and compare them to your roster. Do you have a single cover Elektra taking up space? Sell her - and the same goes for all other garbage tier characters with 1 or 2 covers, post your roster if you really want help with this, but you can probably make some space by dropping weak characters that you won't ever pull covers for anyway. How much room you need to make depends on how you value the 12 newest 4*s, and how quickly you earn 4* tokens. Peggy for example is a top tier 4* - the best of the best.......but she will be rotating out soon. If you don't already have her rostered maybe you just commit to selling any of her draws for the time being. Carol is newer, top tier, and should be there for a while so you probably want to make room for her. Venom on the other hand is garbage and even if he were sticking around for a while you could comfortably sell him without ever missing it as you would likely rarely play him anyway.

Lastly, depending on where you are with these characters you might have to start hoarding for a while as you wait to catch up on champing these newer characters. Much like the old system you want to pull tokens until you get one that you can't use, champ that characters, and then move on. The focus should be on the newest characters. If your ISO earn rate is high enough you will find yourself in a spot where no cover is ever wasted. If your ISO rate isn't high enough you will be forced into the same tough decisions that you were forced into before.

So in the not too distant future you will definitely be getting these newer characters to a usable level much quicker than you would be under the old system. And for the older characters that you were pretty close to finishing? Set them as your bonus heroes and finish them off one by one - it will likely be faster than you would have finished them otherwise since you now have a 1/20 chance to pull them compared to the previous 1/45.

Finally, if your ISO/token earn rate is so slow that you can't get these new characters covered in the 6 months that they are available (I think 6 months is right isn't it? 12 characters @ 2 weeks apart is 24 weeks or ~6 months? Maybe a little longer when you add in 5* releases???) So you'll have 6 months to grab Mordo/Coulson once they get in there and say you just aren't able to grab the 13 covers that you need in that time.....no worries, set them as your bonus hero upon exit until you finish them.

At the end of the day this change means that EVERYONE gets new characters from 0 to 13 covers MUCH faster (probably better than 3x faster) than they did under the previous system, and so that will necessarily help newer players without any 4*s transition into the 4* tier MUCH quicker than they did previously.

Look, I know I come off as a jerk, but at the end of the day I love this game like most everyone else, and I want it to be successful. I want to help others work with it so that they maximize the amount of fun that they have. If you want me to help you work through your roster and plans just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to. I'll even promise to be nice about it.

Couldn't get through the first point you made without being sick to my stomach with the overload of pure hogwash. Under the old system there were not the roster management system problems the new one has. Under the old system I could hold on to my legendary tokens and cp as long as I like and when I had enough HP to add a roster spot I would go and pull tokens until I had a new character to fill that spot and I could roster them knowing that I could always pull more covers later and it didn't matter when they came. This way I never wasted a cover that wasn't a surprise from a heroic or a vault, and I never wasted legendaries or cp if I did get one of them.

Under the new system every 4* cover comes with a ticking clock because you can only pull it from legendaries for so long before it's gone. So there is absolutely no point in pulling from those token unless you can roster, cover and level that character before that clock runs out. For someone who has limited resources that means hoarding until you can roster everyone and put together the iso to level them. I could roster them all tomorrow, it's still going to be forever until I have the iso to do anything with them. No matter what I do I won't have the resources to move forward, period. Maybe since you think it's ok to put in a system that forces spending to keep up and you think it's so important that money be spent left and right to move my roster forward, why don't you pay for it since it is so important to you. I am not going to throw away money at the game because greedy developers want to try and force it.