Am I the only one who recognizes how great Bonus Heroes are?

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  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    edited 2017 03
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    n25philly wrote:
    divide 5% be what, 32, 34? How is that the same as before. How is that better chances?

    Wait, what? Don't do that, that's ludicrous. Pick the one you want the most and get the covers you want for it. Champed at 271, say. Then switch.


    271 would totally mess up my roster. Champing any 1 4* would totally mess up my roster. Why do I have to be forced into a small pool of characters? Why am I not allowed to work on the characters i wanted. Why can't I get covers for the 3* I apparently wasted the last year champing. I don't want to pick one character and be forced into shoving resources I don't have that I am supposed to magically make appear since they want to destroy their own champing system and take away rewards. Why is slow and steady suddenly flat out wrong? This whole system is pure greed filled tinykitty
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited 2017 03
    n25philly wrote:
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    n25philly wrote:
    divide 5% be what, 32, 34? How is that the same as before. How is that better chances?

    Wait, what? Don't do that, that's ludicrous. Pick the one you want the most and get the covers you want for it. Champed at 271, say. Then switch.


    271 would totally screw my roster. Champing any 1 4* would totally screw my roster. Why do I have to be forced into a small pool of characters? Why am I not allowed to work on the characters i wanted. Why can't I get covers for the 3* I apparently wasted the last year champing. I don't want to pick one character and be forced into shoving resources I don't have that I am supposed to magically make appear since they want to destroy their own champing system and take away rewards. Why is slow and steady suddenly flat out wrong? This whole system is pure greed filled tinykitty
    You weren't able to work on the 4*s that you wanted.....NOW YOU CAN - set them as your bonus heroes.

    You can even still be a softcapper if you want, just constantly change your bonus heroes to the lowest leveled ones. Any change that makes it harder or less advantageous to softcap is a good change in my book.
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    edited 2017 03
    Fightmastermpq wrote:
    n25philly wrote:
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    n25philly wrote:
    divide 5% be what, 32, 34? How is that the same as before. How is that better chances?

    Wait, what? Don't do that, that's ludicrous. Pick the one you want the most and get the covers you want for it. Champed at 271, say. Then switch.


    271 would totally screw my roster. Champing any 1 4* would totally screw my roster. Why do I have to be forced into a small pool of characters? Why am I not allowed to work on the characters i wanted. Why can't I get covers for the 3* I apparently wasted the last year champing. I don't want to pick one character and be forced into shoving resources I don't have that I am supposed to magically make appear since they want to destroy their own champing system and take away rewards. Why is slow and steady suddenly flat out wrong? This whole system is pure greed filled tinykitty
    You weren't able to work on the 4*s that you wanted.....NOW YOU CAN - set them as your bonus heroes.

    You can even still be a softcapper if you want, just constantly change your bonus heroes to the lowest leveled ones. Any change that makes it harder or less advantageous to softcap is a good change in my book.


    I want them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't want what I have to be waste. I want to be able to add champ levels to the 3* characters I spent the last year champing. I don't see an advantage to rng inside of rng. I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't let people choose their bonuses without stealing characters from us
  • Skygazing
    Skygazing Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    fmftint wrote:
    Skygazing wrote:
    Just a point that doesn't seem to be coming up much and people might be forgetting: the only place older 4*s are being excluded from are non-vault tokens. Presumably we'll still see them as rotating placement and progression awards for Story and Versus events, and still see them cropping up in vaults.

    The rates for Heroics/Event tokens are also still similarly low as they were before, and at least they won't get worse as new 4*s are continually added.

    The rates on Legendary tokens are actually better now. We were at a point where it was going to be 85% split 44 ways, or approximately 1.93% chance of getting that specific older 4* you wanted. Now it's 5% of 85%, or a 4.25% chance of pulling a favorite 4*. Yes, it's not as feasible for covering multiple older 4*s but at least now we have some semblance of targeted progression, which is something people around here have been asking for for a long time now.

    And personally, I'm looking forward to never pulling a Mr. Fantastic, Fury, Elektra, etc. cover ever again.
    You'll see current 4 star.png s 2x/year in story mode and 3x/year in versus. If you're a progression only player which most are you're looking at 5 covers/YEAR for characters outside the draw pool

    Lmao what's the argument here? That's exactly the same number of them you would've gotten in the old system too. If you're a progression-only player then go ahead and try to explain to me how you would've had them covered otherwise. Your chances of pulling them in the previous system were only going to get lower and lower for already low odds so I'm not seeing how you would've.

    In this new system you can set whichever one you want most as your bonus hero and then enjoy a pull rate of more than 2x what you would have gotten before from legendaries and a similar rate to what you would've gotten from other tokens.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    n25philly wrote:
    I want them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't want what I have to be waste. I want to be able to add champ levels to the 3* characters I spent the last year champing. I don't see an advantage to rng inside of rng. I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't let people choose their bonuses without stealing characters from us

    Of course you do. But you were never going to get them all at the same time, you were going to get them one at a time. Sorry, I made a bad assumption about your roster obviously. Ok, you want to champ 3*s. Pick one, get it to 183 for the 4* cover. Switch to a different champ, get it to 183. For every 20 heroic tokens you open, you'll get about 5 3* covers, plus 1 of your favourites (or rarely a 4* favourite, I guess). That's (1/14th less than) one more 3* than you'd have gotten previously, and you can choose which 3* you pull nearly 1/6 of the time.

    And all of that is ignoring the fact that (if you're in SCL 7, I don't know how the lower ones go) you can still get 2 3* covers from PVE progression per event, 1 3* cover per day from DDQ, additional covers from PVE and PVP placement depending on how you play, plus the same distribution of 3* covers from vaults.
  • thanos8587
    thanos8587 Posts: 653
    to all the people saying theyre glad theyll never pull elektra, mr f fury etc again, all i can say is that for me those were at least champ levels paying out decent and ever improving rewards.

    now i can look forward to pulling an even more concentrated amount of agent venoms, riris, wasps, etc soon to be supplemented by phils and mordos that i could give a **** less about.

    we all have our own roster priorities and desires and ultimate plans based on our level of play. vaulting is a horrible solution for many and we already experienced vaulting and much like prohibition it was deemed a failure and repealed.

    the real solution is 2-4 different sets of tokens at varying levels and allowing people to concentrate their buys as they wish. of course the best solution is the one we never seem to see.

    many improvements have occured and the "bonus" of bonus heroes is a nice gift. vaulting however is not good FOR ME. and in the end thats what i care about. icon_e_biggrin.gificon_e_biggrin.gificon_e_biggrin.gif
  • byc
    byc Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    hopper1979 wrote:
    Just playing a reasonable amount of time daily you should be able to generate 750-1000 HP a week. You may still have to horde but 6-8 months to generate that many slots you are doing something wrong. Are you Farming your 2-stars? What are you spending your HP on?


    750-1000 a week?! I think you need to define reasonable. I do one clear on pve and try to get to 400 in pve if I have the time for the 50hp. I farm 2*, but don't generate hp anywhere near that fast. Maybe a month, but it can vary depending on things like champ levels (which will be less with more than half the 3's going away)

    1000 per week is reasonable. Just play every PvE through, and score 400 on every PvP.
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    byc wrote:
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    hopper1979 wrote:
    Just playing a reasonable amount of time daily you should be able to generate 750-1000 HP a week. You may still have to horde but 6-8 months to generate that many slots you are doing something wrong. Are you Farming your 2-stars? What are you spending your HP on?


    750-1000 a week?! I think you need to define reasonable. I do one clear on pve and try to get to 400 in pve if I have the time for the 50hp. I farm 2*, but don't generate hp anywhere near that fast. Maybe a month, but it can vary depending on things like champ levels (which will be less with more than half the 3's going away)

    1000 per week is reasonable. Just play every PvE through, and score 400 on every PvP.


    I do 1 clear on pve and get to 400 when I can in pvp. 1000 a week is very unrealistic unless I get lucky with champ levels or get to max champ on a 2* and sell it which does happen that often.
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
    n25philly wrote:
    I do 1 clear on pve and get to 400 when I can in pvp. 1000 a week is very unrealistic unless I get lucky with champ levels or get to max champ on a 2* and sell it which does happen that often.

    1 PvE clear is why you're not getting enough HP. If you shoot for progression (not necessarily placement), you should probably place high enough in both the daily subs and the overall event to get HP rewards, as well as whatever HP progression awards exist. Granted, 4 clears is a big time sink, but that's the bar you need to aim for, and if you can get there, that 1000 HP per week goal is very reachable.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    And to be clear, 1000 per two weeks is all you need to keep up with the current rate of releases. Ok, slightly more every time they release 3*/5* variants in tandem. Anything above that and you can catch up if you're behind. 1000 per week would be some pretty rapid catch-up. Depending on how far back you are, I guess. But players who have none or few of the de-listed 4*s can definitely leave them until last without having much of an impact on their ability to have an increasingly complete roster.

    In other news, I think I've decided never to grind the PVP simulator to 2000 ever again, if all it'll be is a new 4* cover I'll have loads of in no time. That'll save me a lot of stress.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Moronic attempt at a wacky feature that demiurge should have known would piss off most of the player base...

    Favorite characters should just have meant a higher chance to draw them, instead of this weird contrived bonus hero ****... I'd have been more than happy with each new pull having a %33 chance or something to be the favorite I nominated from the tier, they can keep the stupid fraction of a fraction bonus hero nonsense.
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    MissChinch wrote:
    Moronic attempt at a wacky feature that demiurge should have known would piss off most of the player base...
    But only because EVERY new feature seems to piss off most of the player base.....
    MissChinch wrote:
    Favorite characters should just have meant a higher chance to draw them, instead of this weird contrived bonus hero tinykitty... I'd have been more than happy with each new pull having a %33 chance or something to be the favorite I nominated from the tier, they can keep the stupid fraction of a fraction bonus hero nonsense.
    Well no ****, I'd be happy to just be able to select a cover that I wanted and have it magically appear on my roster whenever I wanted too, but they don't just give away free **** like that.
  • Trilateralus
    Trilateralus Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    MissChinch wrote:
    Moronic attempt at a wacky feature that demiurge should have known would piss off most of the player base...

    Favorite characters should just have meant a higher chance to draw them, instead of this weird contrived bonus hero tinykitty... I'd have been more than happy with each new pull having a %33 chance or something to be the favorite I nominated from the tier, they can keep the stupid fraction of a fraction bonus hero nonsense.


    The thing is this really only pisses off people here on the forums. More casual players (the vast majority of players) won't even notice this change and be perfectly happy with bonus heroes.
  • MarkersMake
    MarkersMake Posts: 392 Mover and Shaker
    thanos8587 wrote:
    to all the people saying theyre glad theyll never pull elektra, mr f fury etc again, all i can say is that for me those were at least champ levels paying out decent and ever improving rewards.

    now i can look forward to pulling an even more concentrated amount of agent venoms, riris, wasps, etc soon to be supplemented by phils and mordos that i could give a tinykitty less about.
    Is the issue the sunk costs in Elektra, fury, etc? Because if you've got a useless character paying off champ rewards, why does it matter which character it is?

    At least the new 4*s are built to match new game mechanic trends (countdowns, AP theft, etc) and could see some decent synergy with yet to be released characters.
  • TheLadder77
    TheLadder77 Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
    Surely the simplest compromise would be to have the latest 12 four *'s and 3 five *'s in the Latest Legends and everything else in the Classic.

    On Bonus Heroes, it's just more free stuff. Never a bad thing.
  • Tromb2ch2
    Tromb2ch2 Posts: 301 Mover and Shaker
    Also if you are really worried about iso or HP you are seriously missing the best part of vaulting and bonus heroes. The 3* tier.

    3* have now a much higher chance of being bonus heroes and the number you can get are basically cut in half. That means that the amount of covers you see for these 20 characters are going to skyrocket.

    This increase in champion levels will add for way more iso, more HP, more cp, more Lt, and more XP (for higher shield levels and more iso)

    Previously thinking about a 3* farm was only a dream, but now it might actually be a legitimate thing for casual players (but super slow).

    So for you guys saying that 1000 HP a week is unreasonable and 25k iso a day is unreasonable I think you'll be surprised if you just keep playing.
  • mckauhu
    mckauhu Posts: 740 Critical Contributor
    Yes, this system is great. Select 1 x 5*, 1 x 4*, 1 x 3* and you get the character you want to proceed with bonus heroes.
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Skygazing wrote:
    fmftint wrote:
    Skygazing wrote:
    Just a point that doesn't seem to be coming up much and people might be forgetting: the only place older 4*s are being excluded from are non-vault tokens. Presumably we'll still see them as rotating placement and progression awards for Story and Versus events, and still see them cropping up in vaults.

    The rates for Heroics/Event tokens are also still similarly low as they were before, and at least they won't get worse as new 4*s are continually added.

    The rates on Legendary tokens are actually better now. We were at a point where it was going to be 85% split 44 ways, or approximately 1.93% chance of getting that specific older 4* you wanted. Now it's 5% of 85%, or a 4.25% chance of pulling a favorite 4*. Yes, it's not as feasible for covering multiple older 4*s but at least now we have some semblance of targeted progression, which is something people around here have been asking for for a long time now.

    And personally, I'm looking forward to never pulling a Mr. Fantastic, Fury, Elektra, etc. cover ever again.
    You'll see current 4 star.png s 2x/year in story mode and 3x/year in versus. If you're a progression only player which most are you're looking at 5 covers/YEAR for characters outside the draw pool

    Lmao what's the argument here? That's exactly the same number of them you would've gotten in the old system too. If you're a progression-only player then go ahead and try to explain to me how you would've had them covered otherwise. Your chances of pulling them in the previous system were only going to get lower and lower for already low odds so I'm not seeing how you would've.

    In this new system you can set whichever one you want most as your bonus hero and then enjoy a pull rate of more than 2x what you would have gotten before from legendaries and a similar rate to what you would've gotten from other tokens.

    I want Cyclops, Ice Man, Hulkbuster, Rulk or Punisher covers. My odds went from 5/45 or 1/9 to 1/20 with extra chance of waste if I pull 2 out of latest 12 that I don't even have roster space for.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fightmastermpq wrote:
    n25philly wrote:
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    n25philly wrote:
    divide 5% be what, 32, 34? How is that the same as before. How is that better chances?

    Wait, what? Don't do that, that's ludicrous. Pick the one you want the most and get the covers you want for it. Champed at 271, say. Then switch.


    271 would totally screw my roster. Champing any 1 4* would totally screw my roster. Why do I have to be forced into a small pool of characters? Why am I not allowed to work on the characters i wanted. Why can't I get covers for the 3* I apparently wasted the last year champing. I don't want to pick one character and be forced into shoving resources I don't have that I am supposed to magically make appear since they want to destroy their own champing system and take away rewards. Why is slow and steady suddenly flat out wrong? This whole system is pure greed filled tinykitty
    Your thinking is so backwards! You weren't able to work on the 4*s that you wanted.....NOW YOU CAN - set them as your bonus heroes.

    You can even still be a dirty softcapper if you want, just constantly change your bonus heroes to the lowest leveled ones. It's stupid, but so is softcapping, and any change that makes it harder or less advantageous to softcap is a good change in my book.

    Yes so let's say he favorites them 1 by 1 for optimal odds at getting them. His odds for getting that characters are less than 5% per CP pull.

    So each 400 pulls on average he should get 1 bonus cover and there's a chance (I think it's like 85% chance it's a 4*) that it's a 5* and not a 4* which is why I list less than 5%. Then on top of that if the character he needs is 5/5/0 there's only a 33%% chance on top of that the bonus cover is usable.

    5% * 85% * 33% = 1.4025%
    So slightly better than 1 in 100 chance. 100 Classic pulls is 4000 CP.

    So someone trying to get 1 pull for a 5/5/0 might have to wait to build up 4000 CP to get it... If that person who get 100 CP a month, that's 40 months. Yeah he should be thrilled. icon_rolleyes.gif

    EDIT:
    Also if the odds of getting a 4* from CP only put you getting 1 per 400 CP, the argument of weather or not it's just better to buy it with CP for 120 has suddenly changed quite a bit...
  • Fightmastermpq
    Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited 2017 03
    broll wrote:
    Yes so let's say he favorites them 1 by 1 for optimal odds at getting them. His odds for getting that characters are less than 5% per CP pull.

    So each 400 pulls on average he should get 1 bonus cover and there's a chance (I think it's like 85% chance it's a 4*) that it's a 5* and not a 4* which is why I list less than 5%. Then on top of that if the character he needs is 5/5/0 there's only a 33%% chance on top of that the bonus cover is usable.

    5% * 85% * 33% = 1.4025%
    So slightly better than 1 in 100 chance. 100 Classic pulls is 4000 CP.

    So someone trying to get 1 pull for a 5/5/0 might have to wait to build up 4000 CP to get it... If that person who get 100 CP a month, that's 40 months. Yeah he should be thrilled. icon_rolleyes.gif

    EDIT:
    Also if the odds of getting a 4* from CP only put you getting 1 per 400 CP, the argument of weather or not it's just better to buy it with CP for 120 has suddenly changed quite a bit...
    Give me a break. No one would set a 5/5/0 4* as a bonus hero, and that problem would exist without this system anyway. Adding in that 33% chance for a useful cover artificially decreases the odds to help make your point. If you have a 5/5/0 that you really want champed you wait for that 3rd color to pop up in rewards or a vault and then fight/spend like hell for it. Then you can finish with 240 CP if you really really want to. None of these problems are unique to the new bonus heroes/vault system. Also, don't forget that 4*s come from other tokens too - not just CP.

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