Am I the only one who recognizes how great Bonus Heroes are?

Spudgutter

No, I think most everyone thinks that the BH is a good idea. The problem is they lumped it in with the vaulting, which some people take issue with. If you want to have that debate, start an appropriately named topic.

And then when you do, try to have a respectful conversation instead of saying things like 'as usual, you are wrong' and 'sucks to suck.' The responses you were attacking were pretty well reasoned, and all you can do is attack them.

whycantwesyncpc

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Wjohnson992 wrote:

"Only need 12 4*'s"?

Are you familiar with PVE? Good luck doing anything progress wise if you regularly dont have the 4* essential. This is worse than the much talked about disconnect between devs and players lol.

Well he is complaining about roster slots, so he doesn't have those 12 now. Maybe he hasn't heard of PvE???? I don't know. All I'm saying is that this change alone isn't what's preventing him from progressing, it's his own casual play and poor roster management.

How is farming 2* and champing everything 3* bad roster management? I guess it is now that they are taking more than half the characters away, but up until the change I was doing it as right as possible.

broll

Bonus heros are great.

The change to the packs is not. I'd much rather have a lower percent chance of the bonus hero and get the old pack model (or something closer like the old 4*s minus the 12 in Classics or 3 or 4 different CP packs with various characters) back.

Fightmastermpq

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Wjohnson992 wrote:

"Only need 12 4*'s"?

Are you familiar with PVE? Good luck doing anything progress wise if you regularly dont have the 4* essential. This is worse than the much talked about disconnect between devs and players lol.

Well he is complaining about roster slots, so he doesn't have those 12 now. Maybe he hasn't heard of PvE???? I don't know. All I'm saying is that this change alone isn't what's preventing him from progressing, it's his own casual play and poor roster management.

You either have no interest in doing anything but troll or are contacting us from an alternate reality. How is farming 2* and champing everything 3* bad roster management? I guess it is now that they are taking more than half the characters away, but up until the change I was doing it as right as possible.

Why don't you provide a link to your roster so we can have a real conversation then? Right now all I can go off of is your thinking that you will need 6-8 months to get enough HP for 12 characters that you feel like you need to have to progress which sounds like poor roster management to me, so let's work through it.

GurlBYE

Spudgutter wrote:

No, I think most everyone thinks that the BH is a good idea. The problem is they lumped it in with the vaulting, which some people take issue with. If you want to have that debate, start an appropriately named topic.

And then when you do, try to have a respectful conversation instead of saying things like 'as usual, you are wrong' and 'sucks to suck.' The responses you were attacking were pretty well reasoned, and all you can do is attack them.

I was beginning to think I was the only person to notice this lol.
And then the posts I see get edited and reprimanded as opposed to that behavior make no sense. but what can you do.
Besides make liberal use of the foe feature whenever the "why is everyone whining" posters wake up, or have a lull at work and no more pve to clear. But it's EXACTLY why my username is what it is. I kinda felt the vibe here before i even made an account.
(speaking of which not like the app even works for me at the moment)

whycantwesyncpc

Fightmastermpq wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Wjohnson992 wrote:

"Only need 12 4*'s"?

Are you familiar with PVE? Good luck doing anything progress wise if you regularly dont have the 4* essential. This is worse than the much talked about disconnect between devs and players lol.

Well he is complaining about roster slots, so he doesn't have those 12 now. Maybe he hasn't heard of PvE???? I don't know. All I'm saying is that this change alone isn't what's preventing him from progressing, it's his own casual play and poor roster management.

You either have no interest in doing anything but troll or are contacting us from an alternate reality. How is farming 2* and champing everything 3* bad roster management? I guess it is now that they are taking more than half the characters away, but up until the change I was doing it as right as possible.

Why don't you provide a link to your roster so we can have a real conversation then? Right now all I can go off of is your thinking that you will need 6-8 months to get enough HP for 12 characters that you feel like you need to have to progress which sounds like poor roster management to me, so let's work through it. Or you can just complain and threaten to quit if that's easier.

Why would I waste time updating my roster online when I am likely gone in 4 days if they don't change this? I am farming every 2*, Champed all but 2 3* and have all but 15 4*'s rostered but poorly covered. Since we can only pull the chosen 12 next season when I finished champing the 3's I would need 7000 hp for the 4's that can be pulled that I don't have. I have 100. That doesn't even take into account 5* as I have one rostered. Why would I redeem any tokens? Over 50% chance I won't be able to use it. Even if I could, there is no way I will be able to put to resources together to roster/level/champ these characters before the ticking clock goes out. It's too much. There is no option but to hoard and hoard and hoard until I have resources to actually work withing the new system. Not excited about waiting 6 months to a year to progress. Why stay with the game to go nowhere for so long?

GurlBYE

bbigler wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

hopper1979 wrote:

Just playing a reasonable amount of time daily you should be able to generate 750-1000 HP a week. You may still have to horde but 6-8 months to generate that many slots you are doing something wrong. Are you Farming your 2-stars? What are you spending your HP on?

1000 a week sounds a little over the top unless you mean as a top 10 player or something, which isn't possible for players of all levels.

And for 2 farms, that's not a guarantee. And the 50 Hp isn't that frequent to begin with.

But 1000 a week?
50000+ a year?

I don't think so man.
I just don't see it, or no soul in this game would ever complain about rostering new characters or buying packs with all the excess HP.

If the numbers were a 1000 a week for everyone they'd have lowered that number so fast it'd make your head spin.

I'm not a top10 player and i can get 1000 HP in about 4 days. I play PvE to 4 clears, play PvP to about 600 points and clear DDQ. It's not that hard, but does take a little time. Now I can spend HP on more than roster slots.

DDQ doesn't give HP. I can see 500-1000 happening without question. I just don't see 1000 a week happening consistently at multiple tiers of play on a weekly basis. a player without the 4 star required can't even get 4 full clears of a PVE, and they need the space to roster that 4 star.

I know of other sources that can keep my HP numbers level even after spending but those aren't reliable.

Like i wouldn't add shield intercepts into that total, nor DDQ.

My main point being that it isn't some "well duh everyone hits this consistently in game" situation as it's made out to be.

People excel on the forums on average. the rosters here are on average, far and away more than what you'll find on the average player. As is the performance. Kinda all I'm getting at.

hopper1979

I'm sorry 750 to 1000 HP a week is perfectly reasonable, at a minimum if you are doing just normal play you should pull down about 100 from the pve and pvp events a day alone. If you are farming all your 2's on a bad week 200-300. And from your 3's and 4's another 100-300 depending on drops and if you get really lucky you can get a 250 or 1000 drop from a pull. I am not a 10 ten player by any stretch, I regularly play pve (top 100) and pvp (top 50). I think you need to rethink how you are playing if you are having that much trouble pulling down HP. Frankly I think most people issues with it comes down to how they level and roster building from the top down rather than the bottom up, but that is a discussion for another day.

500 HP a week should be no issue.
750-100 very doable for an active player.
I cannot give you a good number for the big fish.

Good luck. If you need some advice on how to get more HP show your rosters and we can figure it out.

Fightmastermpq

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Why would I waste time updating my roster online when I am likely gone in 4 days if they don't change this? I am farming every 2*, Champed all but 2 3* and have all but 15 4*'s rostered but poorly covered. Since we can only pull the chosen 12 next season when I finished champing the 3's I would need 7000 hp for the 4's that can be pulled that I don't have. I have 100. That doesn't even take into account 5* as I have one rostered. Why would I redeem any tokens? Over 50% chance I won't be able to use it. Even if I could, there is no way I will be able to put to resources together to roster/level/champ these characters before the ticking clock goes out. It's too much. There is no option but to hoard and hoard and hoard until I have resources to actually work withing the new system. Not excited about waiting 6 months to a year to progress. Why stay with the game to go nowhere for so long?

So you have almost 30 poorly covered 4*s on your roster that you aren't going to get rewards for. Pick the 12 worst performing and/or worst covered ones among them and sell them to make room for the newest 4*s actually in tokens. Ta da! I just solved your 6-8 month progression stall. I'm sure you'll thank me later.

Seriously, the game changes. Try thinking of how the new system works and how you can be successful within it?

whycantwesyncpc

Fightmastermpq wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Why would I waste time updating my roster online when I am likely gone in 4 days if they don't change this? I am farming every 2*, Champed all but 2 3* and have all but 15 4*'s rostered but poorly covered. Since we can only pull the chosen 12 next season when I finished champing the 3's I would need 7000 hp for the 4's that can be pulled that I don't have. I have 100. That doesn't even take into account 5* as I have one rostered. Why would I redeem any tokens? Over 50% chance I won't be able to use it. Even if I could, there is no way I will be able to put to resources together to roster/level/champ these characters before the ticking clock goes out. It's too much. There is no option but to hoard and hoard and hoard until I have resources to actually work withing the new system. Not excited about waiting 6 months to a year to progress. Why stay with the game to go nowhere for so long?

So you have almost 30 poorly covered 4*s on your roster that you aren't going to get rewards for. Pick the 12 worst performing and/or worst covered ones among them and sell them to make room for the newest 4*s actually in tokens. Ta da! I just solved your 6-8 month progression stall. I'm sure you'll thank me later.

Seriously, the game changes. Rather than throw your hands up and quit immediately, why not apply 30 seconds of critical thinking to how the new system works and how you can be successful within it?

And when the clocks strikes past it's due date and I still didn't get anywhere because I couldn't level them because I didn't have the iso to level them when they were chosen ones? Besides, if I sell those characters then it's going to be even harder to get them now that they have been sent to purgatory. When if I want those characters? Why should I be forced into these 12? Just because greedy devs want to take the fun out of the game doesn't mean that us players should have to suffer.

Fightmastermpq

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Why would I waste time updating my roster online when I am likely gone in 4 days if they don't change this? I am farming every 2*, Champed all but 2 3* and have all but 15 4*'s rostered but poorly covered. Since we can only pull the chosen 12 next season when I finished champing the 3's I would need 7000 hp for the 4's that can be pulled that I don't have. I have 100. That doesn't even take into account 5* as I have one rostered. Why would I redeem any tokens? Over 50% chance I won't be able to use it. Even if I could, there is no way I will be able to put to resources together to roster/level/champ these characters before the ticking clock goes out. It's too much. There is no option but to hoard and hoard and hoard until I have resources to actually work withing the new system. Not excited about waiting 6 months to a year to progress. Why stay with the game to go nowhere for so long?

So you have almost 30 poorly covered 4*s on your roster that you aren't going to get rewards for. Pick the 12 worst performing and/or worst covered ones among them and sell them to make room for the newest 4*s actually in tokens. Ta da! I just solved your 6-8 month progression stall. I'm sure you'll thank me later.

Seriously, the game changes. Rather than throw your hands up and quit immediately, why not apply 30 seconds of critical thinking to how the new system works and how you can be successful within it?

And when the clocks strikes past it's due date and I still didn't get anywhere because I couldn't level them because I didn't have the iso to level them when they were chosen ones? Besides, if I sell those characters then it's going to be even harder to get them now that they have been sent to purgatory. When if I want those characters? Why should I be forced into these 12? Just because greedy devs want to take the fun out of the game doesn't mean that us players should have to suffer.

Then manage your roster appropriately. Look, they are actually making it A LOT easier for you to transition into 4* play, but you are too butthurt over not being able to level all the old 4*s to realize it. All you are going to pull is these new 12 characters, which means you'll get covers for them much faster. It's up to you to figure out how quickly you can level these new 4*s to help judge which characters are worthy of your precious ISO, but with consistent play you should be able to champ new characters before they leave the pool of newest 12 characters. Don't care for Riri or Mordo? Don't roster them. It's no different from before, but they are releasing solid characters all the time (Peggy and Carol are both considered top tier for example) and I'm sure more will come. You'll have far more opportunities to advance into the 4* tier now than you did in the past.

bbigler

GurlBYE wrote:

DDQ doesn't give HP. I can see 500-1000 happening without question. I just don't see 1000 a week happening consistently at multiple tiers of play on a weekly basis. a player without the 4 star required can't even get 4 full clears of a PVE, and they need the space to roster that 4 star.

I know of other sources that can keep my HP numbers level even after spending but those aren't reliable.

Like i wouldn't add shield intercepts into that total, nor DDQ.

My main point being that it isn't some "well duh everyone hits this consistently in game" situation as it's made out to be.

People excel on the forums on average. the rosters here are on average, far and away more than what you'll find on the average player. As is the performance. Kinda all I'm getting at.

I agree that most people on this forum have an above average roster, because they devote a lot of their life to this game (and this forum). So, for most people on the forum, 1000 HP a week is easy. I honestly get about 1500 HP a week. I do want to point out that HP accumulation is done little by little. DDQ rewards vault tokens, and those tokens can reward HP directly or champ levels, which could also give HP. DDQ matches may have shield intercept rewards, which could also give HP. The more you play, the more you get. It's just like XP; I get XP little by little, but at the end of the day I'm surprised to see that I've gained about 300 - 400 XP.

n25philly

Fightmastermpq wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Why would I waste time updating my roster online when I am likely gone in 4 days if they don't change this? I am farming every 2*, Champed all but 2 3* and have all but 15 4*'s rostered but poorly covered. Since we can only pull the chosen 12 next season when I finished champing the 3's I would need 7000 hp for the 4's that can be pulled that I don't have. I have 100. That doesn't even take into account 5* as I have one rostered. Why would I redeem any tokens? Over 50% chance I won't be able to use it. Even if I could, there is no way I will be able to put to resources together to roster/level/champ these characters before the ticking clock goes out. It's too much. There is no option but to hoard and hoard and hoard until I have resources to actually work withing the new system. Not excited about waiting 6 months to a year to progress. Why stay with the game to go nowhere for so long?

So you have almost 30 poorly covered 4*s on your roster that you aren't going to get rewards for. Pick the 12 worst performing and/or worst covered ones among them and sell them to make room for the newest 4*s actually in tokens. Ta da! I just solved your 6-8 month progression stall. I'm sure you'll thank me later.

Seriously, the game changes. Try thinking to how the new system works and how you can be successful within it?

And when the clocks strikes past it's due date and I still didn't get anywhere because I couldn't level them because I didn't have the iso to level them when they were chosen ones? Besides, if I sell those characters then it's going to be even harder to get them now that they have been sent to purgatory. When if I want those characters? Why should I be forced into these 12? Just because greedy devs want to take the fun out of the game doesn't mean that us players should have to suffer.

Then manage your roster appropriately. Look, they are actually making it A LOT easier for you to transition into 4* play, but you are too butthurt over not being able to level all the old 4*s to realize it. All you are going to pull is these new 12 characters, which means you'll get covers for them much faster. It's up to you to figure out how quickly you can level these new 4*s to help judge which characters are worthy of your precious ISO, but with consistent play you should be able to champ new characters before they leave the pool of newest 12 characters. Don't care for Riri or Mordo? Don't roster them. It's no different from before, but they are releasing solid characters all the time (Peggy and Carol are both considered top tier for example) and I'm sure more will come. You'll have far more opportunities to advance into the 4* tier now than you did in the past.

It's very different than before. You can't take away over half the roster and say it's the same as before. Why is it so wrong to want to have the characters we want to have? No interested in rostering Riri, Gwenpool, Peggy Or Kate. What is the point of forcing anyone on us except to try and force money on us. Why make is a race to level. Hell, if I pick one to level it's still a ton of iso in a limited amount of time. Why punish those of us that are fine with taking things slow. Now it's roster/cover/level a character before they are vaulted or fall behind.

They want people to feel pressured to get that done and hope they spend money to get it done if they can't beet the clock otherwise. It's a total greedy and malicious move. I am not going to be strong armed into spending money. If all they are interested in is trying to squeeze the playerbase I don't think I want to be associated with people like that. I hope they smarten up and do something to fix what they intentionally broke.

I'm glad this approach works so well for you, but it doesn't sit well with me.

Jaedenkaal

I think it's a pretty good feature myself, and I think people are overestimating how many covers of specific older 4* characters they actually get from tokens.

The biggest change is actually in what you get when you DON'T get the cover you want most. Previously, 4* covers you didn't want were evenly weighted across all 4*s released. Basically that would mean that all of your 4*s would grow at essentially the same, extremely slow rate (from random token draws. The rest hasn't changed). To avoid selling a bunch of unusable covers all the time, we had to roster everyone. The essential character nodes, DDQ crash cycle and (now) Behemoth Burrito nodes encourage this as an end goal anyways. The limiting factor was roster slots (and thus hero points). As long as you could generate 1000 HP every two weeks, on average, you could keep up, and a little more to catch up.

Now, the 4* covers you don't want will be very strongly weighted (exclusively, in fact) to the 12 newest 4* releases. After 156 4* pulls (~184 legendary tokens) you could, on average, have all 12 of these characters fully covered (cover colors notwithstanding), as opposed to before where you would have only managed to get about 3.5 covers for everyone. (184 legendary token pulls is still insane. I maybe get one per day, probably less, so that would take me over 6 months personally). If you win a bunch of covers from placement and progression then you will, of course, accomplish this sooner. To avoid selling covers above and beyond these, you'll have to not only roster everyone, but champion them as well, which adds an additional, what 360,000 ISO per two weeks (something like that) to the resources you have to generate. That's about 25,000 per day. More if you want to also champion other, older characters that aren't in tokens anymore.

You can sell or ignore vaulted 4* characters if you want with not much penalty, most of them don't need to be anywhere near fully leveled or covered to win their Crash node and even less to beat BB or their essential node, and you'll never have to see them in token draws again.

In exchange for the potential self-imposed requirement that you rake in 25,000 iso per day, we have the bonus hero system, which essentially gives us 5% more covers from tokens, of the cover we want. We can choose which 5*, 4*, and 3* character that we see with the highest frequency, which means we can accelerate our champion reward progression for those characters and get the better, higher level champion rewards faster.

In summary, I think it's a net positive change that's getting some pretty heavy backlash due to the large change in mentality that it implies. I would guess that a significant fraction of covers that we get for our 4*s come from vaults, progression rewards, and placement rewards, and none of that has changed (presumably).

Limited vaults are starting to look better and better, eh

Skygazing

Just a point that doesn't seem to be coming up much and people might be forgetting: the only place older 4*s are being excluded from are non-vault tokens. Presumably we'll still see them as rotating placement and progression awards for Story and Versus events, and still see them cropping up in vaults.

The rates for Heroics/Event tokens are also still similarly low as they were before, and at least they won't get worse as new 4*s are continually added.

The rates on Legendary tokens are actually better now. We were at a point where it was going to be 85% split 44 ways, or approximately 1.93% chance of getting that specific older 4* you wanted. Now it's 5% of 85%, or a 4.25% chance of pulling a favorite 4*. Yes, it's not as feasible for covering multiple older 4*s but at least now we have some semblance of targeted progression, which is something people around here have been asking for for a long time now.

And personally, I'm looking forward to never pulling a Mr. Fantastic, Fury, Elektra, etc. cover ever again.

Jaedenkaal

n25philly wrote:

It's very different than before. You can't take away over half the roster and say it's the same as before. Why is it so wrong to want to have the characters we want to have? No interested in rostering Riri, Gwenpool, Peggy Or Kate.

This argument really confuses me. The new system allows to you have the characters you want more than ever before. If those 4 characters are what you don't want out of the current lineup, there's still the other 8 making up a full 66.6% of the available 4*s, 56.6% of the legendary token pulls in general. And you'll get those 8 faster than you ever dreamed.

fmftint

Skygazing wrote:

Just a point that doesn't seem to be coming up much and people might be forgetting: the only place older 4*s are being excluded from are non-vault tokens. Presumably we'll still see them as rotating placement and progression awards for Story and Versus events, and still see them cropping up in vaults.

The rates for Heroics/Event tokens are also still similarly low as they were before, and at least they won't get worse as new 4*s are continually added.

The rates on Legendary tokens are actually better now. We were at a point where it was going to be 85% split 44 ways, or approximately 1.93% chance of getting that specific older 4* you wanted. Now it's 5% of 85%, or a 4.25% chance of pulling a favorite 4*. Yes, it's not as feasible for covering multiple older 4*s but at least now we have some semblance of targeted progression, which is something people around here have been asking for for a long time now.

And personally, I'm looking forward to never pulling a Mr. Fantastic, Fury, Elektra, etc. cover ever again.

You'll see current 4 s 2x/year in story mode and 3x/year in versus. If you're a progression only player which most are you're looking at 5 covers/YEAR for characters outside the draw pool

n25philly

Jaedenkaal wrote:

n25philly wrote:

It's very different than before. You can't take away over half the roster and say it's the same as before. Why is it so wrong to want to have the characters we want to have? No interested in rostering Riri, Gwenpool, Peggy Or Kate.

This argument really confuses me. The new system allows to you have the characters you want more than ever before. If those 4 characters are what you don't want out of the current lineup, there's still the other 8 making up a full 66.6% of the available 4*s, 56.6% of the legendary token pulls in general. And you'll get those 8 faster than you ever dreamed.

divide 5% be what, 32, 34? How is that the same as before. How is that better chances? What about 6 months from now when it's likely in the 50s? What good is it if I can fully roster 1 or two new 4* if I either can't afford to level it or I level and champ it and it screws up my roster and scaling by being a way higher level than everyone else. After all, got to beat the clicking clock, right? God forbid anyone go at their own pace. People can make top progression and get all of the rewards, so obviously every that doesn't have the time to should be able to as well.

Fightmastermpq

n25philly wrote:

Why is it so wrong to want to have the characters we want to have?

It's not wrong, it's why they implemented Bonus Heroes along with the vaulting. You can pick your bonus hero to be anyone you want and you will earn that hero at twice the rate you would have previously.

n25philly wrote:

What is the point of forcing anyone on us except to try and force money on us. Why make is a race to level. Hell, if I pick one to level it's still a ton of iso in a limited amount of time. Why punish those of us that are fine with taking things slow. Now it's roster/cover/level a character before they are vaulted or fall behind.

If you can't champ them fast enough then you hoard - just like so many 5* transitioners have been doing. Or do your best and then if you decide they are worth champing after they leave make them a bonus hero to finish them off.

Jaedenkaal

n25philly wrote:

divide 5% be what, 32, 34? How is that the same as before. How is that better chances?

Wait, what? Don't do that, that's ludicrous. Pick the one you want the most and get the covers you want for it. Champed at 271, say. Then switch.