*** Magneto (Classic) ***

Unknown

Working as intended??? Again?????

I often find d3 is very weak on balancing character

let's look back Spiderman. If I am going to nerf him by ap consumption I would also increase stun turns to 2 for the first web 3 turns for the second........ simply because the board only have certain amount of blues. The skill will still be strong but not as op because short supply in blue. Anyway he's destroyed.

cmag . Problem we have with him now. Blue power has potential to create infinite loop, red ap cost too low. Purple. Is a 10 ap single target damage skills

Once again they are goingto destroy the core concept of this cover. What s good about his blue is also the ability to overwrite any tiles. Wth man I already spend to much time on this game. In short, my version of cmag rework. Blue power ends the turn . Red power increase both ap needed and damage purple no change.


Let's all just lvl sentry potential 7-9 turns to end a match without any boosts

wymtime

Here is a question for everyone. With 5 yellow being able to create 9 protect tiles that can overwrite CD tiles are they making Magneto to be an Anti Sentry? If WR gets set and then you use CMags new yellow you can overwrite a good chunk of the CD tiles that got placed and have enough protection to withstand the WR with Sacrafice. He should still pair well with Cmags if he does not overwrite your own strike tiles as well. I think patchneto will be strong going forward, but different. hit Berserker rage, and then cover up the strike tiles with protect tiles and hit the other team with 2 nukes. I can see him being usefull 5,5,3 5,3,5 3,5,5 4,4,5 or 5,4,4. His build will really be dependent on how you want to play. I think with Patch 4 in yellow is needed as it will be able to overwrite the purple strike tiles. If it overwrites Patches green then yellow will be very bad with Patch.

Adam12

Disappointed with the change, overall. I'm not sure why they had to create a whole new character rather than just balance Magneto. Increase the cost for his blue and red, he's fine.

The sad thing is that Magneto was one of the most fun characters to play because placing the blue tiles to create matches was fun. It gave the player control, and it is fun to be in control in a game and feel like you have the ability to influence the match more than random cascades. If you made the blue cost 6 or 7, it would still be a fun ability that gives the player control, and it wouldn't be overpowered and give infinite turns. Same thing with red, just notch it up a couple of AP, problem solved.

Unknown

Who the hell is voting no?

Unknown

Typhon13 wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

We are close to character rebalance and while I am excited for the new changes, D3 has overlooked a nerf I'm sure they did not intend. In the comments by IceIX in regards to Magneto's Magnitized Projectile, they wanted to stop the super high scale dmg, but lower the tiles needed, this I am cool with, and they want it to do dmg, but if they leave the skill as is, it will hinder it's ability, as you will be reducing the number of blue tiles on the board to be swapped, by having to match blue for the skill itself, the original was not this way, and neither should the new ability, which is why it should be changed to swapping of yellow and red. Please vote to change before release.

I rather no more changes for one reason. If they change something that have to re-test a bunch of stuff for balancing purposes. We've waited long enough for the C Mags nerf. I say get it out so we can try it as is and then provide feedback.

So he should just be over-nerfed instead of them taking a little extra time with it?

They've taken almost half a year. How much more time do you want to give them? I'm willing to give the changes a chance (since supposedly they've been tested more than TUP's pre-release). If they do not work in practice, I plan to provide feedback as such (probably not in a nice way if you know what I mean). Hopefully, they'll make more changes in the character's power is totally broken.

I had used his blue a lot, which diminished the blue on the board at the time my purple was finally powered up. My purple worked fine (it was at 4 covers). I do not see much difference in the blue that will be on the board after the change compared to the blue that was on the board before the change.

Kolence

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I've read and re-read Coercive Field, I don't think it will overwrite your own strike tiles. It says basic tiles and then you get the ability to overwrite enemies special tiles, since any special tiles you have are not basic tiles and the skill does not give them permission to be overwritten, Coercive Field shouldn't overwrite your own, which increases the effectiveness of this skill, and is now why I'm leaning back towards 5/3/5.

Mmm I am not sure your own tiles are not overwritten. The text clearly says random so it is the same as Juggernaut Unstoppable Crash, and this ability can shatter your own tiles, so I think we won't know for sure until we can test the new abilty but I prepare for the worst. It would be great if it would not overwrite your own tiles, I would clearly lean to a 5/3/5 build.

Phaserhawk wrote:

As for Patch, I don't even think Coercive Field is enough to run him safely, especially at 5/3/5. You run a 1 in 6 chance of overwriting an enemy Patch tile with a max level Coercive Field, not the kind of odds I like, plus you can't spam. No, I'm pretty sure Patch's 5/3/5 days are done without C.Mags, I have already switched my Patch to 4/4/5, and to be honest, I haven't seen a whole lot of difference yet, since many times when I would cast Beserker Rage I didn't always have 6 green tiles out, there is a noticeable difference, but it's not terrible, and I ran a 3/5/5 Patch, with a 5/4/4 C.Mags for the longest time before I went 5/3/5 Patch, 5/5/3 C.Mags. So when compared to that a 4/4/5 Patch, 5/5/3 C.Mags is still better. Hopefully they will rebalance Patch someday, I would gladly give up some of the Health Regeneration for a cheaper TBTI, without that, I sadly see Patch rapidly becoming useless as he really doesn't provide much of a threat. At least 4/4/5 I have some semlance of 5/3/5 but without the risk, and a much better TBTI.

Well maybe 5/3/5 is too much but other Patch builds can work wonders with the new Magneto. I had a 4/4/5 Patch for a while myself, but in the end I changed it to 3/5/5 and I think it is clearly a better build. The difference in damage in The Best There is is so big, that a 5 is needed, and just one tile more in Berserk is not that much. I was at the brink of changing him to 4/5/4 but after the true healing debacle, I didn't dare to. But I think 4/5/4 can be another great configuration for Patch (everytime I win a green cover I consider doing the change).

Coercive Field - Yellow 9 AP
The air crackles as Magneto creates a force field of magnetic energy to protect his allies. Converts 6 random basic color tiles into strength 11 Protect tiles.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Can convert enemy Protect, Strike and Attack tiles.
Level 3: Converts 8 tiles.
Level 4: Converts 9 tiles.
Level 5: Creates strength 17 Protect tiles and can now also convert enemy Countdown tiles.
Max Level: Creates 9 Strength 53 Protect tiles

To me it reads pretty clear, doesn't change the color of tiles and doesn't alter TU or friendly special tiles.
So Patch/Magneto/Storm definitely have synergy still. Berserker Rage followed by Hailstorm to increase the chance of hitting purple strike tiles with Coercive Field. Shame that this is not a rainbow team anymore - another casualty of changing purple --> blue.

GrimSkald

I actually would prefer it if they kept his nuke purple (and swapping red and blue.) It synergizes much better with other characters, and there is a definite severe lack of good purple powers. There is no shortage of good yellow powers.

LuciferianX

So the new CMags is now color mapped to the same spectrum as his two Red/Blue/Yellow peers, IM40 and Steve Rogers. Among those three, I always have the same concern, which is this:

Maxed out, while he doesn't have the HP, Mags still gets materially more benefit on his Level 5 shields (477 on 6 tiles) than Rogers does at equivalent level (289 * 3, or 867). Meaning that Mags is deploying twice as many shields, making them more challenging to match out, and for approximately equivalent AP, generates 954 in defense. So he can deploy it faster, and it's more efficient, and harder to stop.

For the cost of the power, why doesn't Rogers get the ability to match out opponent tiles, leveled up the same way that his Red & Blue are? Given the cost, and that you have to place them anyway, where's the benefit to Rogers defense over Magneto's? By which I mean, when you look at it, Mags now has materially stronger defense overall. Add to that at higher cover levels, Mags CAN remove (albeit randomly) opponent special tiles, up to and including countdowns.

Thoughts?

Unknown

LuciferianX wrote:

So the new CMags is now color mapped to the same spectrum as his two Red/Blue/Yellow peers, IM40 and Steve Rogers. Among those three, I always have the same concern, which is this:

Maxed out, while he doesn't have the HP, Mags still gets materially more benefit on his Level 5 shields (477 on 6 tiles) than Rogers does at equivalent level (289 * 3, or 867). Meaning that Mags is deploying twice as many shields, making them more challenging to match out, and for approximately equivalent AP, generates 954 in defense. So he can deploy it faster, and it's more efficient, and harder to stop.

For the cost of the power, why doesn't Rogers get the ability to match out opponent tiles, leveled up the same way that his Red & Blue are? Given the cost, and that you have to place them anyway, where's the benefit to Rogers defense over Magneto's? By which I mean, when you look at it, Mags now has materially stronger defense overall. Add to that at higher cover levels, Mags CAN remove (albeit randomly) opponent special tiles, up to and including countdowns.

Thoughts?

Cap'n has infinitely better red than cmags red and blue as well AND more health to boot. Dev's probably though that giving cmag decent shields would mean he wouldn't be completely nerfed into the ground. They were wrong but maybe he can be fun for villain Lightning Rounds

LuciferianX

wymtime wrote:

Here is a question for everyone. With 5 yellow being able to create 9 protect tiles that can overwrite CD tiles are they making Magneto to be an Anti Sentry? If WR gets set and then you use CMags new yellow you can overwrite a good chunk of the CD tiles that got placed and have enough protection to withstand the WR with Sacrafice. He should still pair well with Cmags if he does not overwrite your own strike tiles as well. I think patchneto will be strong going forward, but different. hit Berserker rage, and then cover up the strike tiles with protect tiles and hit the other team with 2 nukes. I can see him being usefull 5,5,3 5,3,5 3,5,5 4,4,5 or 5,4,4. His build will really be dependent on how you want to play. I think with Patch 4 in yellow is needed as it will be able to overwrite the purple strike tiles. If it overwrites Patches green then yellow will be very bad with Patch.

Sentry, Daken, the new 2*Hawkeye, any of those guys. His new shield generator is superb.

M C K

stephen43084 wrote:

If they change something that have to re-test a bunch of stuff for balancing

Sorry, I lost you at "They test".

Twysta

Adam12 wrote:

Disappointed with the change, overall. I'm not sure why they had to create a whole new character rather than just balance Magneto.

I used to ask similar questions, but nowadays (and previously) this was the only response I could interpret from them.

Phaserhawk

The new yellow will be interesting. If combined with say a Storm Hailstorm that's maxed you have a 1:3.5 chance of destroying an enemies special tile, otherwise it's 1:7.1 however that % chance goes up if you yourself have special tiles because C.Mags won't convert those. I think I will opt for a 5/3/5 build. The dmg in red is nice but it doesn't increase the effectiveness of the spell, where as both yellow and blue do more and more with each cover.

Unknown

M C K wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

If they change something that have to re-test a bunch of stuff for balancing

Sorry, I lost you at "They test".

I'm just telling you what they will tell us if they change the covers again. And you know it's true that that's exactly what they will say.

Edit - And by the way, one of the more powerful and popular characters is being nerfed/overnerfed. The poll results could be 5,000 to 0, and this would be inline with the results that MPQ would expect.

HailMary

Noting the reduced max swap count, I'm not sure this blue-on-blue color overlap isn't entirely intentional.

Further, I don't think CMags was overnerfed. He's still good. He's "bad' now due to comparing his new good self against his old massively-OP-like-whoa self.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

Noting the reduced max swap count, I'm not sure this blue-on-blue color overlap isn't entirely intentional.

Further, I don't think CMags was overnerfed. He's still good. He's "bad' now due to comparing his new good self against his old massively-OP-like-whoa self.

He's average now. Not good. There's a difference.

HailMary

Typhon13 wrote:

HailMary wrote:

Noting the reduced max swap count, I'm not sure this blue-on-blue color overlap isn't entirely intentional.

Further, I don't think CMags was overnerfed. He's still good. He's "bad' now due to comparing his new good self against his old massively-OP-like-whoa self.

He's average now. Not good. There's a difference.

Sure, if you say so. He's at least solidly mid-tier: not LT, but also not Doom.

He has a max-5K nuke, a Protect ability that nullifies 500 dmg (i.e. all base match dmg, most of Sacrifice, most of late-game UD strike dmg), and a TUAP-wiping cascader that should reliably hit for 2K+. Not bad.

Raffoon

Voted yes, but he could do with a few other changes from his new design as well.

Losing purple coverage on a lot of rosters is a huge downside here. Make his yellow match strength a pink match strength, rather than changing the ability color.

He no longer synergizes with strike tiles at ALL, unlike before, when that was one of his main niches. If he doesn't have an ability that either hits multiple times or is noticeably cheap costed, then this part of his synergy is completely gone, thus destroying much of his function in a roster. Heck, make him an ability that costs 5 red AP and does an appropriate effect for 5 red, that works for (kind of) for Psylocke. Or maybe instead of destroying teamup powers, his red could still cost 8, but could destroy 5 (or some number of) tiles, counting each tile for purposes of strike tiles. That would keep the synergy, feel and spirit of the ability but add more levers to tune it.

This new version of him is nothing like the old. It performs completely different roles, completely loses character synergies that defined the gameplay, and even matches different colors.

Unknown

Absolutely, it should be corrected to yellow and red

It's bad enough, the changes are completely rewriting a powerful character into a potential unknown, hurting his main damage powerful by a ridiculous oversight is poor planning, unless this was a secret extra nerf.

Bad enough one of the few, viable purple powers is gone and CMags matches IM40 and S. Rogers's colors...

...and possibly having to respec? Rubbish.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

Typhon13 wrote:

HailMary wrote:

Noting the reduced max swap count, I'm not sure this blue-on-blue color overlap isn't entirely intentional.

Further, I don't think CMags was overnerfed. He's still good. He's "bad' now due to comparing his new good self against his old massively-OP-like-whoa self.

He's average now. Not good. There's a difference.

Sure, if you say so. He's at least solidly mid-tier: not LT, but also not Doom.

He has a max-5K nuke, a Protect ability that nullifies 500 dmg (i.e. all base match dmg, most of Sacrifice, most of late-game UD strike dmg), and a TUAP-wiping cascader that should reliably hit for 2K+. Not bad.

Mid tier=average. Not bad, but you don't take the guy tied for best character in the game and make him "not bad". You keep him top tier but not op. In a world where sentry+boosts can win in under 5 turns and LT can dish out 10000 damage in one shot, he's now irrelevant. Basically they've reduced the top 5 to the top 3, and even then daken is only there because of sentry. That makes the guys left even more op. If they nerf the last two freaks, then the new cmags is good. Until then, he's average.