*** Magneto (Classic) ***

mjh

He still seems like a top10-top15 character to me. 9 protect tiles is not a joke.

With that being said, it says "converts enemy strike, defense, attack and CD tiles" at level 5. Does that mean randomly or can you choose? The wording is very unclear. Only at level 1 is it clear it's random. It seems that after level 1 you can choose what tiles he converts.

john1620b

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

He still seems like a top10-top15 character to me. 9 protect tiles is not a joke.

With that being said, it says "converts enemy strike, defense, attack and CD tiles" at level 5. Does that mean randomly or can you choose? The wording is very unclear. Only at level 1 is it clear it's random. It seems that after level 1 you can choose what tiles he converts.

Uh...hate to break it to you, but there's absolutely NO WAY the devs are going to allow you to choose to overwrite NINE tiles for 9 AP! That would be crazy!

Unknown

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

He still seems like a top10-top15 character to me. 9 protect tiles is not a joke.

With that being said, it says "converts enemy strike, defense, attack and CD tiles" at level 5. Does that mean randomly or can you choose? The wording is very unclear. Only at level 1 is it clear it's random. It seems that after level 1 you can choose what tiles he converts.

The 'special tiles allowed' just mean it won't be like the current Magnetized Particle which is never allowed to randomly destroy special tiles. Now it'd work like Unstoppable Crash where a special tile is now a valid target for the random selection criteria.

mjh

Phantron wrote:

The 'special tiles allowed' just mean it won't be like the current Magnetized Particle which is never allowed to randomly destroy special tiles. Now it'd work like Unstoppable Crash where a special tile is now a valid target for the random selection criteria.

That's what I thought but it's not distinctly clear. Who is copywriting for these guys? There should be no question about what it does and doesn't do

Unknown

I'm pleased that some people have the rosy outlook that Magneto won't be functionally useless with these changes but, to me, it's the same thing as Spiderman. People see protect tiles, think (hope?) they will make him useful in pvp , find out it doesn't because it's far too slow and powers still hurt plenty and completely dump the hero.

Protect tiles will never be balanced to the point of being very useful because part of the game's business model involves your heroes getting hurt. This is particularly true in PvP where the game design greatly rewards winning quickly on offence and the AI can't be trusted to achieve much of anything on defence.

So IMO heroes with protect tile generation have to be able to worth using on the merit of their other powers with the bonus of their protect tiles. His red is becoming a bad mistress of the elements (no AP gen and using a more valuable colour) so that leaves the question of how much value you would place on his purple--->blue power. 499 damage per AP is good but it will average a bit less than that unless you're willing to sit on that AP for potentially quite a few turns(7 is actually the average matches for MT as it is now BUT with the new cap everything at 7 or higher will count as 7 so the average matches you get will end up lower.).

For me he won't be worth using in PvP but might get some use in PvE, but only because I have levels in him. I certainly wouldn't level him up with this change.

I think his red needed to become something more useful to balance the nerfs to his blue and purple. Either more damage per AP or more utility. As it stands though just dropping the cost wouldn't help all that much because you won't use it consecutively (after one use of it there's unlikely to be much in the way of TU tiles left for round 2) and generating AP would make it a clone of another power.

Personally if I was going to change the red I would increase the damage by 20-25% and change it to targeting whichever tile type is most prevalent on the board. That way it's a guaranteed 8 tiles destroyed meaning a much better average damage, it allows consecutive use AND gives the option to try and manipulate the most common tile type to be one with enemy specials on to destroy adding back a bit of the hero's interest.

Phaserhawk

Please change his new Magnetized Projectiles to swap yellow and red tiles, otherwise you are severely nerfing this skill. The benefit of this was you could match purple to swap red and blue, now you have to match blue to swap blue which will cause less tiles to be on the board to use this skill. Please change before implementation

Unknown

Protect tiles do not interfere with the business model at all because it takes time to put them on and any damage you've already taken is still there. There's no point to play defensively while the hyper effective offense of Sentry still exists so you shouldn't expect to see Magneto in PvP until Sentry is nerfed, unless some guys just aren't afraid of Sentry. Protect tiles have been relatively weak in the past, often having less numbers than their strike tile counterpart despite the fact that they're purely reactionary and do absolutely nothing to help you win faster. If you look at Coercive Field it's now strong enough to preemptively block a Judgment, which is one of the top strike tile ability in the game that can be considered balanced. Even against Sacrifice or Battleplan it's strong enough to make a meaningful impact since it can also replace those strike tiles, and that's against abilities that aren't fair at all. Now having meaningful impact doesn't mean Coercive Field can stop a Battleplan, but it's a step in the right direction. In the past the defensive abilities are nowhere close to stopping their strike tile counterparts. Bird Strike, for example, requires one more match and cannot overwrite special tiles either, which is also why Bird Strike isn't even worth using most of the time.

Unknown

3 passives from Spiderman does less but not massively so than coercive force will, comes in stages meaning impact from match number one and is far easier to top up if one or more tiles gets matched away but he basically never gets any use.

The protect tiles alone will NOT merit using C.Mags and IMO his offensive powers, while placing him above spiderman, aren't good enough to get him a spot.

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

3 passives from Spiderman does less but not massively so than coercive force will, comes in stages meaning impact from match number one and is far easier to top up if one or more tiles gets matched away but he basically never gets any use.

The protect tiles alone will NOT merit using C.Mags and IMO his offensive powers, while placing him above spiderman, aren't good enough to get him a spot.

It's still not worthwhile to play anyone based on defensive consideration in PvP because it's way too biased toward offense, but you're talking about abilities that at least match up to offensive abilities in numbers. If you have a Coercive Field up at the exact same time someone dropped a Judgment, it will generally stop it. It'll probably take something like getting rid of boosts in the game to make defense playable, but Magneto is closer to a playable defensive character than anyone else so far. Speaking of Spiderman, I find it pretty rare to have even 3 Spider-sense tiles out, since you got to match purple to create more of them but in the process that has a high chance of destroying your own protect tiles. While his raw numbers may match up to Coercive Field, it's not likely to have that many protect tiles up.

This game still seems to have a hard time figuring out that reactionary abilities need to be way stronger than preemptive abilites. If you can boost 9 green AP you'll start with a Judgment, which is a huge advantage. If you boost to 9 yellow AP and start with a Coercive Field, that's not all that interesting. Boosts swings the balance even further toward offense.

Unknown

The only beef I have with the changes is the color change. I loved mags because he filled purple, blue. Oh well. I suppose purple gets no love at all.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Please change his new Magnetized Projectiles to swap yellow and red tiles, otherwise you are severely nerfing this skill. The benefit of this was you could match purple to swap red and blue, now you have to match blue to swap blue which will cause less tiles to be on the board to use this skill. Please change before implementation

So true that I don't mind the triple post. The more I look at this, the more cmags looks like the new Spider-Man.

Unknown

I am mostly worried by the metagame shifts with this. Magneto was one of the few reasons it was easy to keep Sentry under control.

Phaserhawk

Please change his new Magnetized Projectiles to swap yellow and red tiles, otherwise you are severely nerfing this skill. The benefit of this was you could match purple to swap red and blue, now you have to match blue to swap blue which will cause less tiles to be on the board to use this skill. Please change before implementation

I'm gonna keep posting this until they do an update and make this true.

Unknown

I got that feeling from the rest of your posts. I just do not think it will work.

Unknown

Also I will thumbing up all your posts hawk, for extra glory effect

Please devs, don't overkill an already dead character.. If it matters, I actually PAID for that last 2 blue cover for him..

Oldboy

Agree with what the rest said above.

Also Another suggestion to switch to
Blue ---> Blue
Red ---> Black
Purple ---> purple
If you really want a "more diverse" roster since these 3 colours dont get much love at all when it comes to playable abilities in most characters (except Doom)

Wonko33

This is so senseless.

Why Create a brand new character instead of keeping him but increasing some of the AP for the abilities, the problem with is red was not the power it was the cost, Same with Blue

Now it's all brand new, has to be playtested... adjusted blah blah blah

Unknown

I don't think the devs realize that any balances should be as minor as possible while still balancing the character. For cmags it was an increase in cost for his blue and red. That's it! It could've been done in a day.

Mawtful

bonfire01 wrote:

I think his red needed to become something more useful to balance the nerfs to his blue and purple. Either more damage per AP or more utility. As it stands though just dropping the cost wouldn't help all that much because you won't use it consecutively (after one use of it there's unlikely to be much in the way of TU tiles left for round 2) and generating AP would make it a clone of another power.

Personally if I was going to change the red I would increase the damage by 20-25% and change it to targeting whichever tile type is most prevalent on the board. That way it's a guaranteed 8 tiles destroyed meaning a much better average damage, it allows consecutive use AND gives the option to try and manipulate the most common tile type to be one with enemy specials on to destroy adding back a bit of the hero's interest.

I had suggested previously that his tile destruction should target friendly Protect tiles, dealing extra damage based on the tile's Protect strength. That way you're encouraged to litter the board with Prot tiles and then smash them (some? all?) for burst damage.

Unknown

Fine with what became of his red and his purple (except that I, like plenty of others, don't get why he doesn't have purple anymore, since purple is not a very common colour), but really unhapy with what became of his blue. Being able to place those tiles at will and not at random made Magneto a very valuable character.