*** Magneto (Classic) ***

Kelbris

Red should be the attack power and blue should be the protect tile spell. If his blue stays protect tiles, he'll have better synergy with beast (beast needs a friendly blue special tile)

mutants stick together.

Have yellow kill team ups. Makes him the storm counter.

unimatrix

Okay. After reading all the changes.. i'm none the wiser on what is the configuration for CMag now.

Mine is at 544 right now
I have a purple cover from available in my store.
Should I make CMag 535 ?

Polares

unimatrix wrote:

Okay. After reading all the changes.. i'm none the wiser on what is the configuration for CMag now.

Mine is at 544 right now
I have a purple cover from available in my store.
Should I make CMag 535 ?

Well, the new blue is the most powerfull ability (and from 4 to 5 you do more damage and you move more tiles so the difference is quite big), and going from 3 to 5 in red only increments the damage per tile (but not the number of tiles afected), so 5/3/5 can be the best combination. I would say 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 so If I were you I would change it asap

PS: Mine is 5/4/4 too :_(

MarcusGraves

Polares wrote:

unimatrix wrote:

Okay. After reading all the changes.. i'm none the wiser on what is the configuration for CMag now.

Mine is at 544 right now
I have a purple cover from available in my store.
Should I make CMag 535 ?

Well, the new blue is the most powerfull ability (and from 4 to 5 you do more damage and you move more tiles so the difference is quite big), and going from 3 to 5 in red only increments the damage per tile (but not the number of tiles afected), so 5/3/5 can be the best combination. I would say 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 so If I were you I would change it asap

PS: Mine is 5/4/4 too :_(

its weird because its hard to tell if they want him to be some kind of support character, a damage dealer or something in-between, but if I had to choose i'd do the 3/5/5 build.

reasons:

-protect tiles are an okay effect, 3 in yellow is enough that it overwrites most of the special tiles in the game besides countdown (which aren't seen that much in PvP) taking them away from the enemy if it happens and its cheap enough to where you could probably get 2 casts of it off sometimes.

-if red is going to be 261 damage per team up tile at max then I would personally get some usage out of it because I barely match TU tiles and find them a pain in the **** when they are the only moves i can make. since I almost never purposely match them they build up on my board and popping the red for 261 per would do 3915 damage from breaking 15 and there is the possibility of it generating more AP and damage from cascades. Its very unfortunate that this ability has to be red however as there are better red powers, it almost feels like it should be purple instead.

-blue: not much to explain here, maxing it yields much more damage.

Polares

MarcusGraves wrote:

Polares wrote:

unimatrix wrote:

Okay. After reading all the changes.. i'm none the wiser on what is the configuration for CMag now.

Mine is at 544 right now
I have a purple cover from available in my store.
Should I make CMag 535 ?

Well, the new blue is the most powerfull ability (and from 4 to 5 you do more damage and you move more tiles so the difference is quite big), and going from 3 to 5 in red only increments the damage per tile (but not the number of tiles afected), so 5/3/5 can be the best combination. I would say 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 so If I were you I would change it asap

PS: Mine is 5/4/4 too :_(

its weird because its hard to tell if they want him to be some kind of support character, a damage dealer or something in-between, but if I had to choose i'd do the 3/5/5 build.

reasons:

-protect tiles are an okay effect, 3 in yellow is enough that it overwrites most of the special tiles in the game besides countdown (which aren't seen that much in PvP) taking them away from the enemy if it happens and its cheap enough to where you could probably get 2 casts of it off sometimes.

-if red is going to be 261 damage per team up tile at max then I would personally get some usage out of it because I barely match TU tiles and find them a pain in the **** when they are the only moves i can make. since I almost never purposely match them they build up on my board and popping the red for 261 per would do 3915 damage from breaking 15 and there is the possibility of it generating more AP and damage from cascades. Its very unfortunate that this ability has to be red however as there are better red powers, it almost feels like it should be purple instead.

-blue: not much to explain here, maxing it yields much more damage.

Well it depends a little bit on how exactly yellow works, I suppose it doesn't change the color of the tile to yellow and it doesn't overwrite your own strike/attack tiles (is it like this or is it totally random, do we know?). Maybe 5/3/5 could be better for PvE and 3/5/5 to PvP, and for now I will only use Magneto for PvE so I think i am going to bet for 5/3/5 for now (My actual build is 5/4/4 so it is 'easy' to change to 5/3/5)

Unknown

I don't see the appeal of 5 covers in this new yellow mess of a power. From 3 to 4 covers you get one more protect tile. Yay. 4 to 5 covers you get some extra tile strength, which is okay but not really worth two covers in and of itself, and it also bestows upon it the ability to convert countdown tiles. Problem is it's still a random spray. Realistically, how many countdown tiles are you ever really facing? Unless there's a World Rupture or a Don spitting out junk on the other side, it's probably not more than a few at worst. I'm not a crunch the numbers guy, but your chances of hitting any countdown tiles square on with this scattergun under normal circumstances isn't really that great. And in the case of World Rupture, the protect tiles alone will take most of the sting out of it anyway, you don't need to overwrite the countdowns themselves.

So you're taking two covers away from a damaging power to get what? To go from 250ish to 450ish protection and a chance to maybe once in a while clip a countdown tile so you can do the happy dance? I like a good happy dance as much as the next guy, but if I'm going to get any kind of use out of this new thing masquerading as Magneto in the future, I'm respec'ing to max damage as soon as possible. If it prioritized special tiles then we're having a different conversation, but that doesn't seem to be the case the way it's worded.

Polares

Thugpatrol wrote:

I don't see the appeal of 5 covers in this new yellow mess of a power. From 3 to 4 covers you get one more protect tile. Yay. 4 to 5 covers you get some extra tile strength, which is okay but not really worth two covers in and of itself, and it also bestows upon it the ability to convert countdown tiles. Problem is it's still a random spray. Realistically, how many countdown tiles are you ever really facing? Unless there's a World Rupture or a Don spitting out junk on the other side, it's probably not more than a few at worst. I'm not a crunch the numbers guy, but your chances of hitting any countdown tiles square on with this scattergun under normal circumstances isn't really that great. And in the case of World Rupture, the protect tiles alone will take most of the sting out of it anyway, you don't need to overwrite the countdowns themselves.

So you're taking two covers away from a damaging power to get what? To go from 250ish to 450ish protection and a chance to maybe once in a while clip a countdown tile so you can do the happy dance? I like a good happy dance as much as the next guy, but if I'm going to get any kind of use out of this new thing masquerading as Magneto in the future, I'm respec'ing to max damage as soon as possible. If it prioritized special tiles then we're having a different conversation, but that doesn't seem to be the case the way it's worded.

Well lets do some numbers:

64 tiles -> at any given moment we should have around 9 teamUp tiles (we could argue that as AI always matches these tiles first we can have less than 9, but for now we are going to assume an even distribution of tiles).

5 red -> 261 * 9 = 2349
3 red -> (49/81) * 261 * 9 = 1421 (more or less 60% max damage)

5 yellow -> 9 * 53 = 477
3 yellow -> 8 * 11/17 * 53 = 274 (more or less 57% less protection)

the difference is more or less the same, but of course with 5 in yellow you can overwrite countdown tiles and with 3 no, and with red the only difference is the damage, but you get the same cascade. The most important thing is the randomness of yellow, and not as a good thing, (more if it can overwrite your own attack/strike tiles). As is I still think 3/5/5 is better for PvP and 5/3/5 for PvE but I am not 100% sure.

I don't see any reason to have a 4/4/5 build.

Phaserhawk

He'll be decent, it will come down to 5/3/5 or 3/5/5. But they need to change Magnetized Projectile to swap yellow and red or they really will kill this character. As for the 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 debate I think either will be fine, if u don't max red you really hurt the damage but if u don't max yellow u reduce effectiveness. At first I thought 5/3/5 but not do sure now. If you take the big 3 now. Thor/Sentry/Daken, Thor u probably want mags 3/5/5 for Sentry you do want him 3/5/5 and Daken it doesn't matter. Since this change will kill Patch. I'm not sure who the Big 5 will be now. I know Black Panther moves up into the 4th spot, but not sure who takes #5. Obviously if we counted 4*'s X-Force and Fury would be in there. I think Hood becomes #5 just because if his current ability to push the already insane combo of Strike Tiles and World Rupture to insane levels. Of the top characters BP is pretty darned Balanced and While Hood is overpowered with his AP steal, he can called balance due to his other two skills and low hit points. Thor is overpowered but not terribly, he needs more of a small dmg reduction and would be mostly balanced. Sentry is just insane, and while the self dmg keeps him in check, if you are not afraid to spend $ then this guy has no draw backs.

But for the love if god, change the colors if Magnetized Projectile to yellow/red swapping PLEASE!!!!

Polares

Phaserhawk wrote:

He'll be decent, it will come down to 5/3/5 or 3/5/5. But they need to change Magnetized Projectile to swap yellow and red or they really will kill this character. As for the 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 debate I think either will be fine, if u don't max red you really hurt the damage but if u don't max yellow u reduce effectiveness. At first I thought 5/3/5 but not do sure now. If you take the big 3 now. Thor/Sentry/Daken, Thor u probably want mags 3/5/5 for Sentry you do want him 3/5/5 and Daken it doesn't matter. Since this change will kill Patch. I'm not sure who the Big 5 will be now. I know Black Panther moves up into the 4th spot, but not sure who takes #5. Obviously if we counted 4*'s X-Force and Fury would be in there. I think Hood becomes #5 just because if his current ability to push the already insane combo of Strike Tiles and World Rupture to insane levels. Of the top characters BP is pretty darned Balanced and While Hood is overpowered with his AP steal, he can called balance due to his other two skills and low hit points. Thor is overpowered but not terribly, he needs more of a small dmg reduction and would be mostly balanced. Sentry is just insane, and while the self dmg keeps him in check, if you are not afraid to spend $ then this guy has no draw backs.

But for the love if god, change the colors if Magnetized Projectile to yellow/red swapping PLEASE!!!!

I subscribe your change the colors if Magnetized Projectile to yellow/red swapping campaing, but I think it is not going to work.

Well if you have a 5/3/5 build you still can pair Magneto with Patch, as the shields will absorb a big part of the damage (of course there is the possibility of overwriting your own strike tiles if you fire first Berseker Rage or not having enough green tiles for your strike tiles if you fire Coercive field first), and red would go for The best there is. There is still synergy there. Not as fast as before, but it can still work.

Phaserhawk

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

He'll be decent, it will come down to 5/3/5 or 3/5/5. But they need to change Magnetized Projectile to swap yellow and red or they really will kill this character. As for the 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 debate I think either will be fine, if u don't max red you really hurt the damage but if u don't max yellow u reduce effectiveness. At first I thought 5/3/5 but not do sure now. If you take the big 3 now. Thor/Sentry/Daken, Thor u probably want mags 3/5/5 for Sentry you do want him 3/5/5 and Daken it doesn't matter. Since this change will kill Patch. I'm not sure who the Big 5 will be now. I know Black Panther moves up into the 4th spot, but not sure who takes #5. Obviously if we counted 4*'s X-Force and Fury would be in there. I think Hood becomes #5 just because if his current ability to push the already insane combo of Strike Tiles and World Rupture to insane levels. Of the top characters BP is pretty darned Balanced and While Hood is overpowered with his AP steal, he can called balance due to his other two skills and low hit points. Thor is overpowered but not terribly, he needs more of a small dmg reduction and would be mostly balanced. Sentry is just insane, and while the self dmg keeps him in check, if you are not afraid to spend $ then this guy has no draw backs.

But for the love if god, change the colors if Magnetized Projectile to yellow/red swapping PLEASE!!!!

I subscribe your change the colors if Magnetized Projectile to yellow/red swapping campaing, but I think it is not going to work.

Well if you have a 5/3/5 build you still can pair Magneto with Patch, as the shields will absorb a big part of the damage (of course there is the possibility of overwriting your own strike tiles if you fire first Berseker Rage or not having enough green tiles for your strike tiles if you fire Coercive field first), and red would go for The best there is. There is still synergy there. Not as fast as before, but it can still work.

I've read and re-read Coercive Field, I don't think it will overwrite your own strike tiles. It says basic tiles and then you get the ability to overwrite enemies special tiles, since any special tiles you have are not basic tiles and the skill does not give them permission to be overwritten, Coercive Field shouldn't overwrite your own, which increases the effectiveness of this skill, and is now why I'm leaning back towards 5/3/5.

As for Patch, I don't even think Coercive Field is enough to run him safely, especially at 5/3/5. You run a 1 in 6 chance of overwriting an enemy Patch tile with a max level Coercive Field, not the kind of odds I like, plus you can't spam. No, I'm pretty sure Patch's 5/3/5 days are done without C.Mags, I have already switched my Patch to 4/4/5, and to be honest, I haven't seen a whole lot of difference yet, since many times when I would cast Beserker Rage I didn't always have 6 green tiles out, there is a noticeable difference, but it's not terrible, and I ran a 3/5/5 Patch, with a 5/4/4 C.Mags for the longest time before I went 5/3/5 Patch, 5/5/3 C.Mags. So when compared to that a 4/4/5 Patch, 5/5/3 C.Mags is still better. Hopefully they will rebalance Patch someday, I would gladly give up some of the Health Regeneration for a cheaper TBTI, without that, I sadly see Patch rapidly becoming useless as he really doesn't provide much of a threat. At least 4/4/5 I have some semlance of 5/3/5 but without the risk, and a much better TBTI.

Phaserhawk

We are close to character rebalance and while I am excited for the new changes, D3 has overlooked a nerf I'm sure they did not intend. In the comments by IceIX in regards to Magneto's Magnitized Projectile, they wanted to stop the super high scale dmg, but lower the tiles needed, this I am cool with, and they want it to do dmg, but if they leave the skill as is, it will hinder it's ability, as you will be reducing the number of blue tiles on the board to be swapped, by having to match blue for the skill itself, the original was not this way, and neither should the new ability, which is why it should be changed to swapping of yellow and red. Please vote to change before release.

***
Edited to add final poll results.

Item - Votes - % of Total Votes
Yes - 90 - 79%
No - 24 - 21%

Phillipes

Yes, you are right, surely they didnt see that. It should be reworked.

Unknown

been said a million times here but please leave mag a purple user and change his strong match from yellow to purple.

Not a fan of his blue change but it seems this skill was always meant to be defensive. Oh well his red could be interesting. The purple skill shouldnt have been nerfed. It hit hard based on circumstance. It was a good power but by no means OP AT ALL.

Phaserhawk

BUMP, KEEP VOTING

Polares

Phaserhawk wrote:

I've read and re-read Coercive Field, I don't think it will overwrite your own strike tiles. It says basic tiles and then you get the ability to overwrite enemies special tiles, since any special tiles you have are not basic tiles and the skill does not give them permission to be overwritten, Coercive Field shouldn't overwrite your own, which increases the effectiveness of this skill, and is now why I'm leaning back towards 5/3/5.

Mmm I am not sure your own tiles are not overwritten. The text clearly says random so it is the same as Juggernaut Unstoppable Crash, and this ability can shatter your own tiles, so I think we won't know for sure until we can test the new abilty but I prepare for the worst. It would be great if it would not overwrite your own tiles, I would clearly lean to a 5/3/5 build.

Phaserhawk wrote:

As for Patch, I don't even think Coercive Field is enough to run him safely, especially at 5/3/5. You run a 1 in 6 chance of overwriting an enemy Patch tile with a max level Coercive Field, not the kind of odds I like, plus you can't spam. No, I'm pretty sure Patch's 5/3/5 days are done without C.Mags, I have already switched my Patch to 4/4/5, and to be honest, I haven't seen a whole lot of difference yet, since many times when I would cast Beserker Rage I didn't always have 6 green tiles out, there is a noticeable difference, but it's not terrible, and I ran a 3/5/5 Patch, with a 5/4/4 C.Mags for the longest time before I went 5/3/5 Patch, 5/5/3 C.Mags. So when compared to that a 4/4/5 Patch, 5/5/3 C.Mags is still better. Hopefully they will rebalance Patch someday, I would gladly give up some of the Health Regeneration for a cheaper TBTI, without that, I sadly see Patch rapidly becoming useless as he really doesn't provide much of a threat. At least 4/4/5 I have some semlance of 5/3/5 but without the risk, and a much better TBTI.

Well maybe 5/3/5 is too much but other Patch builds can work wonders with the new Magneto. I had a 4/4/5 Patch for a while myself, but in the end I changed it to 3/5/5 and I think it is clearly a better build. The difference in damage in The Best There is is so big, that a 5 is needed, and just one tile more in Berserk is not that much. I was at the brink of changing him to 4/5/4 but after the true healing debacle, I didn't dare to. But I think 4/5/4 can be another great configuration for Patch (everytime I win a green cover I consider doing the change).

Unknown

They're just trying to slide Magneto in somewhere between spider-ham and Daredevil

john1620b

Phillipes wrote:

Yes, you are right, surely they didnt see that. It should be reworked.

I completely disagree -- I'm fairly certain they intended it to be that way, to make reaching the highest potential damage even more difficult. Why? Who knows, but the devs idea of "balance" is not really understood by anyone.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

We are close to character rebalance and while I am excited for the new changes, D3 has overlooked a nerf I'm sure they did not intend. In the comments by IceIX in regards to Magneto's Magnitized Projectile, they wanted to stop the super high scale dmg, but lower the tiles needed, this I am cool with, and they want it to do dmg, but if they leave the skill as is, it will hinder it's ability, as you will be reducing the number of blue tiles on the board to be swapped, by having to match blue for the skill itself, the original was not this way, and neither should the new ability, which is why it should be changed to swapping of yellow and red. Please vote to change before release.

I rather no more changes for one reason. If they change something that have to re-test a bunch of stuff for balancing purposes. We've waited long enough for the C Mags nerf. I say get it out so we can try it as is and then provide feedback.

Unknown

stephen43084 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

We are close to character rebalance and while I am excited for the new changes, D3 has overlooked a nerf I'm sure they did not intend. In the comments by IceIX in regards to Magneto's Magnitized Projectile, they wanted to stop the super high scale dmg, but lower the tiles needed, this I am cool with, and they want it to do dmg, but if they leave the skill as is, it will hinder it's ability, as you will be reducing the number of blue tiles on the board to be swapped, by having to match blue for the skill itself, the original was not this way, and neither should the new ability, which is why it should be changed to swapping of yellow and red. Please vote to change before release.

I rather no more changes for one reason. If they change something that have to re-test a bunch of stuff for balancing purposes. We've waited long enough for the C Mags nerf. I say get it out so we can try it as is and then provide feedback.

So he should just be over-nerfed instead of them taking a little extra time with it?

mhorham

I am not sure which comics d3 has been reading but it is pretty clear that in those comics that magneto was powerful enough to take on all the other xmen. Having said that , I think you passed the point where magneto is an upper tier character and tried to turn him into a slightly better than a middle of the road character. It's sort of amusing though that people got around the balancing of him last time.if we the players do it again what will you do next time