*** Magneto (Classic) ***

Unknown

I'm fairly sure that although his shield tiles can cover enemy special tiles, they have a very small chance of actually doing this.

Quondem

Unless the shield tiles target the ai tiles first then go random it is a waste and Yellow ability is meh at best sad days for Mags.Hell if we could target the tiles to change to shields that would be ok also but random only works in the AI favor always. ex Rags Jugs Storm abilities all cascade for for every every time for the AI.

Polares

KLoganR wrote:

I'm fairly sure that although his shield tiles can cover enemy special tiles, they have a very small chance of actually doing this.

You have a 1/64 possibility of a shield falling in any given tile. You create 9 tiles. So if there is only one tile you want to overwrite you have a 9 * 1/64 = 14%

Not bad, and if there are more than one tiles you would like to overwrite then chances grow up (of overwritng one of them, all is almost impossible ). This ability will hurt a lot Daken, Sentry, Doom or Storm (more or less like Falcon, but in this case with two other direct attack abilities), not just because shields will protect against the damage but because it has a good percentage of overwriting some of the attacking tiles.

PS: Yesterday I won a purple magneto (oh yeah!!!), so I suppose it is safe to assume that I can wait until the R60 and this cover will be transformed to a blue cover? I can use it now but I would like to wait and keep using Magnetos red until the patch.

Kolence

Polares wrote:

KLoganR wrote:

I'm fairly sure that although his shield tiles can cover enemy special tiles, they have a very small chance of actually doing this.

You have a 1/64 possibility of a shield falling in any given tile. You create 9 tiles. So if there is only one tile you want to overwrite you have a 9 * 1/64 = 14%

Don't forget it doesn't overwrite TU tiles and friendly special tiles. The more of those you have on the board when you use Coercive Field, the higher the chance for each enemy tile to be hit by it.

Let's say on an average board, you have 7-9 TU tiles. After casting Berserker Rage you drop 12 strike tiles (optimist ). Then you cast Hailstorm and drop new 32 attack tiles. Now, there are 45-47 tiles that C.Field can't target, which leaves your 9 shields to drop on 17-19 available tiles, of which 6 you want to hit. I better leave finding correct probabilities for someone who won't be as easily confused at this point with math , but intuitively, it doesn't look as bad any more.

Unknown

Here's what I don't get. You say "changes" - but this isn't a change.

A change is when you tweak an ability a bit. When you offer up some differences in how they work. A change would be, say, making Magnetic Projectile cap out at 5AP and have it hit another tile per cover. A change would be making the tiles his blue drops be Purple, or maybe Yellow. A change would be making Magnetic Transolcation do less damage.

This is not a change.

This is removing C.Mags from the game and replacing him with a totally different character. And I really gotta ask - how in the world was this the best solution you guys could come up with? I'm not sure if this was clear, but people like C.Mags. They like the design of the character. They like how he works. OP? Yeah! He was busted as all hell! But he was interesting.

Like, for example, you say "our original intent is to make this a strong shield" for his blue. But since he was released, that has never been the point. It's been board disruption and an AP engine. Broken as it is? Yes. But you could keep the ability almost as it was by, say, changing the tile color. It would still be really strong, but it would not be broken, and it would keep the spirit of the ability we know and love.

Or how about Magnetic Projectile? Yeah, board shakeup at 2AP is broken. But that could have been fixed by, I dunno, raising the cost and making it a little more shake-up. Keep the fundamental character of the skill.

And then there's Magnetic Translocation. First off, changing the color? There's like, 2 or 3 purple skills in the 3* roster even remotely worth using. It used to be Whales, this, and debatable deceptive tactics (which is not an attack on its own). Now there's one less. Why? There's now exactly one damaging purple skill, and exactly four purple skills period (of which only one does damage and two are attached to useless characters). Compared with 8 blue skills, many of which are useful. But other than that, this is exactly what we were looking for. The same skill, just weaker.

But as is? This is not a change. This is a completely different character, which takes away most of what we like about the character. It's not just that he's broken. It's that he's a great utility and damage character. That he's one of the few characters who complements the good damage-dealers well (a useful blue and purple? Jackpot!). It's that he can deal with pesky tiles in a way that no other character can, and that he's not useless without that. This new character isn't that. He's now got two of the most hotly contested colors (instead of one), he loses most of his utility, and he doesn't sync up well with the rest of the cast. This is not a nerf. This is not a change. This is a completely different character.

Wolarsen

This fits perfectly with Marvel lore; do check old Defenders comics, this is a MUTANT ALPHA strike!!! (Mags gets reverted to infant state, is genetically altered by Moira and returned to adulthood)

Raffoon

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Here's what I don't get. You say "changes" - but this isn't a change.

A change is when you tweak an ability a bit. When you offer up some differences in how they work. A change would be, say, making Magnetic Projectile cap out at 5AP and have it hit another tile per cover. A change would be making the tiles his blue drops be Purple, or maybe Yellow. A change would be making Magnetic Transolcation do less damage.

This is not a change.

This is removing C.Mags from the game and replacing him with a totally different character. And I really gotta ask - how in the world was this the best solution you guys could come up with? I'm not sure if this was clear, but people like C.Mags. They like the design of the character. They like how he works. OP? Yeah! He was busted as all hell! But he was interesting.

Like, for example, you say "our original intent is to make this a strong shield" for his blue. But since he was released, that has never been the point. It's been board disruption and an AP engine. Broken as it is? Yes. But you could keep the ability almost as it was by, say, changing the tile color. It would still be really strong, but it would not be broken, and it would keep the spirit of the ability we know and love.

Or how about Magnetic Projectile? Yeah, board shakeup at 2AP is broken. But that could have been fixed by, I dunno, raising the cost and making it a little more shake-up. Keep the fundamental character of the skill.

And then there's Magnetic Translocation. First off, changing the color? There's like, 2 or 3 purple skills in the 3* roster even remotely worth using. It used to be Whales, this, and debatable deceptive tactics (which is not an attack on its own). Now there's one less. Why? There's now exactly one damaging purple skill, and exactly four purple skills period (of which only one does damage and two are attached to useless characters). Compared with 8 blue skills, many of which are useful. But other than that, this is exactly what we were looking for. The same skill, just weaker.

But as is? This is not a change. This is a completely different character, which takes away most of what we like about the character. It's not just that he's broken. It's that he's a great utility and damage character. That he's one of the few characters who complements the good damage-dealers well (a useful blue and purple? Jackpot!). It's that he can deal with pesky tiles in a way that no other character can, and that he's not useless without that. This new character isn't that. He's now got two of the most hotly contested colors (instead of one), he loses most of his utility, and he doesn't sync up well with the rest of the cast. This is not a nerf. This is not a change. This is a completely different character.

So true.This new character is nothing like the old Magneto, and it's not OK.I'm still hoping that the Devs hear the outcry and decide to go a different direction, but past history has left me doubtful.

Another consideration: His old Blue and Red are only so OP because they both exist together. Blue alone would not give you his current near-infinite matches, since you'd run out of tiles. It's only by shaking up the board a bunch of times with his red that he's able to continue his combo. Small changes to either blue or red would have a large impact on his overall power level since they're so dependent on each other.

Polares

Wolarsen wrote:

This fits perfectly with Marvel lore; do check old Defenders comics, this is a MUTANT ALPHA strike!!! (Mags gets reverted to infant state, is genetically altered by Moira and returned to adulthood)

Spoilers?

Then he grows old gain, substitutes Xavier as School grand master when Xavier leaves with Lilandra and becomes leader of the xmen, then time passes and he leaves the xmen, turns paranoid and mad, he discovers the genetic modification in his dna, tries to kill Xavier and Moira and turns evil again and he returns to his previous path.

Then of course, a lot of time passes by, he tries to kill everyone two or three times, more times passes by and when Xmen leave the human world to life in island Utopia with all the existent mutants after 'no more mutants', he changes his path again and decides to have a secondary role behind Cyclops 'rule'.

Unknown

Wolarsen wrote:

This fits perfectly with Marvel lore; do check old Defenders comics, this is a MUTANT ALPHA strike!!! (Mags gets reverted to infant state, is genetically altered by Moira and returned to adulthood)

LOVED The Defenders, but I cant remember Alpha Strike. I'll have to check it out when I get home from work.... maybe even dig out my old comics. Most of the stories I remember from The Defenders (besides the obvious heros like Dr Strange, Surfer, etc...) involved The Valkrye, Yandroth, Gargoyle & Hellstrom.

Unknown

Polares wrote:

Wolarsen wrote:

This fits perfectly with Marvel lore; do check old Defenders comics, this is a MUTANT ALPHA strike!!! (Mags gets reverted to infant state, is genetically altered by Moira and returned to adulthood)

Spoilers?

Then he grows old gain, substitutes Xavier as School grand master when Xavier leaves with Lilandra and becomes leader of the xmen, then time passes and he leaves the xmen, turns paranoid and mad, he discovers the genetic modification in his dna, tries to kill Xavier and Moira and turns evil again and he returns to his previous path.

Then of course, a lot of time passes by, he tries to kill everyone two or three times, more times passes by and when Xmen leave the human world to life in island Utopia with all the existent mutants after 'no more mutants', he changes his path again and decides to have a secondary role behind Cyclops 'rule'.

Even for comic book storywriting that sounds **** terrible.

Phaserhawk

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Here's what I don't get. You say "changes" - but this isn't a change.

A change is when you tweak an ability a bit. When you offer up some differences in how they work. A change would be, say, making Magnetic Projectile cap out at 5AP and have it hit another tile per cover. A change would be making the tiles his blue drops be Purple, or maybe Yellow. A change would be making Magnetic Transolcation do less damage.

This is not a change.

This is removing C.Mags from the game and replacing him with a totally different character. And I really gotta ask - how in the world was this the best solution you guys could come up with? I'm not sure if this was clear, but people like C.Mags. They like the design of the character. They like how he works. OP? Yeah! He was busted as all hell! But he was interesting.

Like, for example, you say "our original intent is to make this a strong shield" for his blue. But since he was released, that has never been the point. It's been board disruption and an AP engine. Broken as it is? Yes. But you could keep the ability almost as it was by, say, changing the tile color. It would still be really strong, but it would not be broken, and it would keep the spirit of the ability we know and love.

Or how about Magnetic Projectile? Yeah, board shakeup at 2AP is broken. But that could have been fixed by, I dunno, raising the cost and making it a little more shake-up. Keep the fundamental character of the skill.

And then there's Magnetic Translocation. First off, changing the color? There's like, 2 or 3 purple skills in the 3* roster even remotely worth using. It used to be Whales, this, and debatable deceptive tactics (which is not an attack on its own). Now there's one less. Why? There's now exactly one damaging purple skill, and exactly four purple skills period (of which only one does damage and two are attached to useless characters). Compared with 8 blue skills, many of which are useful. But other than that, this is exactly what we were looking for. The same skill, just weaker.

But as is? This is not a change. This is a completely different character, which takes away most of what we like about the character. It's not just that he's broken. It's that he's a great utility and damage character. That he's one of the few characters who complements the good damage-dealers well (a useful blue and purple? Jackpot!). It's that he can deal with pesky tiles in a way that no other character can, and that he's not useless without that. This new character isn't that. He's now got two of the most hotly contested colors (instead of one), he loses most of his utility, and he doesn't sync up well with the rest of the cast. This is not a nerf. This is not a change. This is a completely different character.

Minus the color switch he's the same character. The old purple now blue is the same. Red is essentially the same, but instead of blowing up 5 random tiles he only blows up TU tiles. Since this skill isn't spammable it won't matter that you couldn't cast it again right away. As for old blue now yellow, this is doing what was originally intended, to create a defensive tile that could overwrite anything, well guess what it's a defensive tile that can overwrite anything if maxed, the only issue is the randomness, but, if you added a few more tiles and tweaked the protect down a bit it could be more reliable, so this is the same character as he was originally intended. Defensive tile creation--check. Board shake up and dmg...check, targeted nuke...check. He is exactly the same, he just doesn't have the spammable infinte turns.

Oldboy

I dunno... I thought Magneto was one of the more powerful villains in the comics with his magnetic abilities and his abilities in the game should reflect that. It just seems like a powering down to me. Magneto has mastery over the magnetic field, his abilities shouldnt be that random...

And i think one of the main gripes about the upcoming change is the switch of his colours especially purple because there just arent enough good purple match attack abilities for 3*. Also the change has been too drastic for many who have spent hp/iso8/$$$ on cMags. This new cMags wasnt the one they spent resources on to get. If they knew they wouldnt have bothered and would have spent it on another character.

wymtime

Oldboy wrote:

I dunno... I thought Magneto was one of the more powerful villains in the comics with his magnetic abilities and his abilities in the game should reflect that. It just seems like a powering down to me. Magneto has mastery over the magnetic field, his abilities shouldnt be that random...

And i think one of the main gripes about the upcoming change is the switch of his colours especially purple because there just arent enough good purple match attack abilities for 3*. Also the change has been too drastic for many who have spent hp/iso8/$$$ on cMags. This new cMags wasnt the one they spent resources on to get. If they knew they wouldnt have bothered and would have spent it on another character.

If people are complaining becuase they have spent HP on Cmags they have been able to abuse his Blue and red for a while now and have reeped great rewards in the process. His abuse has given people the ability to generate more HP and covers. His changes have been in the works for over 6 months so anyone who spent HP on him knew something was comming. They also saw the Nerf to Spiderman and Rags so the fact that CMags now has 2 really solid nukes and a fairly cheep set of protect tiles that can overwrite ennemy tiles makes him a very viable character. In the 3* range he is still a top 6 character. The biggest issue with the Purple change is it leaves very few active purple abilites so creating a true rainbow is more difficult, but he still pairs with Patch and Punisher who were his best friends before. He can now also be a stong counter to Sentry becuase his protect tiles can overwrite CD tiles. I think the Dev's did a good Job adjusting him so he is still strong and playable, but no longer broken.

h4n1s

Oldboy wrote:

I dunno... I thought Magneto was one of the more powerful villains in the comics with his magnetic abilities and his abilities in the game should reflect that. It just seems like a powering down to me.

yep, let's wait for his 4* version. I think most of players will agree with statement, that for the cost of 3*, he was overpowered. The balance is just helping to make him as alternative in the 3* area, not just 'must have to win easily' character.

over_clocked

The things I love about classic Magneto:

ACTIVE, DECENT PURPLE ABILITY;

ability to create critical tiles at will - cHawkeye was one of my favourite characters to play in Prologue, and IM 35 with his random protect tiles was NOT. Protect tiles are not fun and will never be fun in this offense-oriented game, although I do imagine future Magneto screwing Sentry teams pretty hard, and that's a bit soothing;

and, of course, his asspull capability which understandably has to go.

Farewell to old Magneto, I might say this now as well instead of when the actual patch rolls out, you helped me get so many other covers and I actually enjoyed abusing your sweet powers to no end (not much in PvE lately, though), and comboing you with half my roster for lulz, evulz and profit.

Just to think of a few that will no longer be, besides the ole trusty Patchneto:
Magneto + buffed Hood = crit tiles on yellow and black matches, 4.5x crit multiplier by Hood, BAM! 5000 damage on a crit-laced yellow match with some strike tiles around;
Magneto + uber-buffed oBW = Espionage purple & blue and hit hard on every single Magnetic Field. Last available to be used in Balance of Power where 1*s and 2*s have stronger match damage than 3*s;
Magneto + BP = what, you thought only Patch provided strong strike tiles? As a bonus, BP doesn't require red for his strongest attack;
Magneto + Punisher + strong old environments like Forest, Desert and Winter = 4.0x crit multiplier and a 4x environment strength by Pun, some well-placed crit tiles by Magneto, voila, Thorned Rose, Oasis, craziness, boards exploding, tiny kitties flying everywhere. Also, strike tiles;
Magneto + Thor = the offensive juggernaut!
A shout out to Ben Grimm who is a promoter of Daredevil. Sadly, DD's awesome abilities rely on Magneto's even awesomer abilities to be reliably triggered. That will no longer be, as well.

Magneto was the Daken killer (junkie needs blue? He fails the mutant race!); the crazy scaled baddies killer (to be honest, he was much the reason for overscaling, too), the LADY KILLER (okay, I might be the only one, the recent poll clearly showed that forumites lust after Sentry and not after Mr Magnetism. Eh, they know nothing).
To all things great and broken, hear hear. I sincerely hope you will at least see more play after funbalance than poor Spidey, Magneto.




Peace.


And leave him a purple ability, for kitties' sake!

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Here's what I don't get. You say "changes" - but this isn't a change.

A change is when you tweak an ability a bit. When you offer up some differences in how they work. A change would be, say, making Magnetic Projectile cap out at 5AP and have it hit another tile per cover. A change would be making the tiles his blue drops be Purple, or maybe Yellow. A change would be making Magnetic Transolcation do less damage.

This is not a change.

This is removing C.Mags from the game and replacing him with a totally different character. And I really gotta ask - how in the world was this the best solution you guys could come up with? I'm not sure if this was clear, but people like C.Mags. They like the design of the character. They like how he works. OP? Yeah! He was busted as all hell! But he was interesting.

Like, for example, you say "our original intent is to make this a strong shield" for his blue. But since he was released, that has never been the point. It's been board disruption and an AP engine. Broken as it is? Yes. But you could keep the ability almost as it was by, say, changing the tile color. It would still be really strong, but it would not be broken, and it would keep the spirit of the ability we know and love.

Or how about Magnetic Projectile? Yeah, board shakeup at 2AP is broken. But that could have been fixed by, I dunno, raising the cost and making it a little more shake-up. Keep the fundamental character of the skill.

And then there's Magnetic Translocation. First off, changing the color? There's like, 2 or 3 purple skills in the 3* roster even remotely worth using. It used to be Whales, this, and debatable deceptive tactics (which is not an attack on its own). Now there's one less. Why? There's now exactly one damaging purple skill, and exactly four purple skills period (of which only one does damage and two are attached to useless characters). Compared with 8 blue skills, many of which are useful. But other than that, this is exactly what we were looking for. The same skill, just weaker.

But as is? This is not a change. This is a completely different character, which takes away most of what we like about the character. It's not just that he's broken. It's that he's a great utility and damage character. That he's one of the few characters who complements the good damage-dealers well (a useful blue and purple? Jackpot!). It's that he can deal with pesky tiles in a way that no other character can, and that he's not useless without that. This new character isn't that. He's now got two of the most hotly contested colors (instead of one), he loses most of his utility, and he doesn't sync up well with the rest of the cast. This is not a nerf. This is not a change. This is a completely different character.

Minus the color switch he's the same character. The old purple now blue is the same. Red is essentially the same, but instead of blowing up 5 random tiles he only blows up TU tiles. Since this skill isn't spammable it won't matter that you couldn't cast it again right away. As for old blue now yellow, this is doing what was originally intended, to create a defensive tile that could overwrite anything, well guess what it's a defensive tile that can overwrite anything if maxed, the only issue is the randomness, but, if you added a few more tiles and tweaked the protect down a bit it could be more reliable, so this is the same character as he was originally intended. Defensive tile creation--check. Board shake up and dmg...check, targeted nuke...check. He is exactly the same, he just doesn't have the spammable infinte turns.

Absolutely not the same.

The IDEA behind his old and new powers might be the same or similar, but the actual abilities and how they are used are obviously different.

Unknown

Look, we all knew that these changes were coming, for a long time. No one can argue that his character before was not completely overpowered, and utilized not as intended. But, as for the change the colors, I don't see the issue. Yes, you need blue to throw it and hopefully more blue will be on the board, but how often has that been an issue for Patches green? You need 6 more green on the board, after attaining 9. Even before the switch, I would typically get 5 blue and just continue to fire off the broken ability, which reduced my blue, but I typically still have 7 available.

Would this be a problem if to maximize his effectiveness you needed 13, like before, than yes. But, it isn't difficult to keep 7 blue on the board, even after acquiring it.

This is a nerf from before, but sounds like he is going to finally be created as intended with the protect abilities. He is not destroyed as a character, but he is no longer broken, which needed to happen. I'm gonna miss my Patchneto, but this will be a good change for character variety. Expect more LThors though.

Unknown

wymtime wrote:

Oldboy wrote:

I dunno... I thought Magneto was one of the more powerful villains in the comics with his magnetic abilities and his abilities in the game should reflect that. It just seems like a powering down to me. Magneto has mastery over the magnetic field, his abilities shouldnt be that random...

And i think one of the main gripes about the upcoming change is the switch of his colours especially purple because there just arent enough good purple match attack abilities for 3*. Also the change has been too drastic for many who have spent hp/iso8/$$$ on cMags. This new cMags wasnt the one they spent resources on to get. If they knew they wouldnt have bothered and would have spent it on another character.

If people are complaining becuase they have spent HP on Cmags they have been able to abuse his Blue and red for a while now and have reeped great rewards in the process. His abuse has given people the ability to generate more HP and covers. His changes have been in the works for over 6 months so anyone who spent HP on him knew something was comming. They also saw the Nerf to Spiderman and Rags so the fact that CMags now has 2 really solid nukes and a fairly cheep set of protect tiles that can overwrite ennemy tiles makes him a very viable character. In the 3* range he is still a top 6 character. The biggest issue with the Purple change is it leaves very few active purple abilites so creating a true rainbow is more difficult, but he still pairs with Patch and Punisher who were his best friends before. He can now also be a stong counter to Sentry becuase his protect tiles can overwrite CD tiles. I think the Dev's did a good Job adjusting him so he is still strong and playable, but no longer broken.

The main issue is people spend lots of time (months) and effort to build a character that ends up getting nerfed and it has happened alot.

Off the top of my head here's whos been nerfed: Ragnarok, Spidey, 2* Storm (oh yeah, all 3 Storms!) SPidey, OBW and now Magneto.

Unknown

locked wrote:

Peace.


And leave him a purple ability, for kitties' sake!

It's like having a Dr. Doom character with no green ability!

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

It's like having a Dr. Doom character with no green ability!

Or a Loki with no Green and no Yellow!
Or a Spider-Man with no Red!
Or a Black Widow with no Black!
Or a Falcon with no Red!

Wow, they're really bad at this, aren't they?