*** Magneto (Classic) ***

Polares

pasa_ wrote:

locked wrote:

Only Magneto can use his abilities like whenever, every turn, multiple times, and even earn more AP in the process. While I adore the fact, it probably is frowned upon by devs (they could never guess!).

Not sure it was this thread or another -- someone suggested to go and watch the recent X-Men movie (I can second that, great stuff). THAT is POWER, he's f-nig Magneto, just supposed to be that way.

And I don't see him breaking the game in any way. Not even a fragment of complaints that were popping everywhere on spiderman.

What reason the devs really have for frown? I doubt he stands in the way to sell the new covers. Or even wanting people leave due to his presence. Messing with him looks like opportunity for a huge backslash without any real gain for anyone. Even the theoretic balance argument is fishy -- powers are never completely even and being on the top side should be fair.

Actually if I was dev and was forced to do some change I'd probably just nerf his HP to torch/gsbw range and call it a day.

Players would be relieved and everyone happy.

They just need to change red and that's it. Something like 6 cost and 2.5 more damage (2 direct and the 0.5 from incrementing the number of tiles affected) and it is done. Without the combination of blue and red it would be very difficult to have infinite use of blue, so he will be just very powerfull not OP.

If they change blue (which I think they will do) I will probably stop playing this game (this is no a threat it is just that I will loose the option of playing with the most fun character in the game).

over_clocked

pasa_ wrote:

Purple is week? Come on now. For 10 AP it provides ~4k damage on average (see the recent observation data that perfectly matches my experience.) It is topping quite any old ability and stands up well with new ones.

The diff you see is result of use: AI uses blue for random placement, actually adding blues, you usually use up the blues on board for other purpose -- certainly you can just use your blue store to re-add them for the big shot.

Oh, don't get me wrong, purple is amazing, especially with the lack of purple abilities among 3*s. I used to quite like 5/4/4 and 5/3/5 before that, the sheer power was amazing, but I found 5/5/3 having more utility and capable of ****-pull victories, while relegating most of the damage to other characters. It's just weak compared to his own blue and even red because red costs 2 AP and that's it. I wouldn't advocate the 5/5/3 build to everyone, it definitely lacks the firepower and only does 3.2k damage guaranteed.

pasa_ wrote:

Well, they should by now, Mags used to be LR only but in last 3 months we had at least 5 pvps with offers so usual mortals could make a fair version by now (he is viable to play with mere 9 covers)

At 3/3/3, playable, but not quite the character we are talking about yet.

pasa_ wrote:

<knock-knock> it actually looks on back burner, probably for this exact reasoning. And they keep releasing fat and powerful new characters so Mags is not that out-standing stat-wise for some time. Certainly he is one of the best engines in "good" hands, but I doubt that attribute is all that widespread.
Not sure it was this thread or another -- someone suggested to go and watch the recent X-Men movie (I can second that, great stuff). THAT is POWER, he's f-nig Magneto, just supposed to be that way.

I loved X-Men: DOFP. I love Magneto in everything I watch. I quite agree in that he should be one of the most powerful characters by every right. I would be beyond happy if they didn't nerf another one of my favourite Marvel characters (the first was Spider-Man and it pains me to see him at bottom tier now), but I'm not sure where you got the info about Magneto being backburnered, as Ice simply sad that a nerf probably wouldn't happen by July.
The reason for his nerf would be the same as for Spidey - he gives too much cushion to the player, too much safety on offense. I must be taking some vibes from Phantron in sounding that way, but don't get me wrong for a second, I would love to keep that kind of powerful and yet fun-to-play abilities.

Unknown

locked wrote:

but I'm not sure where you got the info about Magneto being backburnered, as Ice simply sad that a nerf probably wouldn't happen by July.

The key phrase is they has nothing to even prototype testing. Spiderman was under internal testing for a month at least (with all the tinikitty) doubt they would have less than that for anything else. Some time passed since but if they didn't even have a firm starting idea then, it's quite promising.

And I hope time is on our side for this case, the more power creep and new stuff the less motivation to fiddle with anything old and sitting in the game without breaking it. IMO it's a safe bet mags nerf will not happen before they come out with their plans about prologue healing (something they sound to have starting ideas and motivation too) -- we can allocate worries more sensibly

Unknown

locked wrote:

The reason for his nerf would be the same as for Spidey - he gives too much cushion to the player, too much safety on offense. I must be taking some vibes from Phantron in sounding that way, but don't get me wrong for a second, I would love to keep that kind of powerful and yet fun-to-play abilities.

My guess is they processed spiderman for his *defensive* powers not offensive ones. Why offensive "cushion" is any kind of problem to devs? It's actually a benefit that makes some people do more shield jumping.

Mags is effectively balanced by the artificial stupidity (under 180ish levels and without goon-fed AP and being similar liability for defense situations like OBW, Hood and Storm... He has more health but less immediate impact on that side.

And in PVE they implemented the "cure" in the scaling formulas log ago so those using mags are likely facing 2x the opponents... I'm sure they count turns the enemy took until the victory and if low enough what is natural with him, you're put on the fast lane.

Unknown

Typhon13 wrote:

I finally got enough covers for him to get him to a solid level but they're about to nerf him. I have like 5000 iso. Should I level him anyway, use my iso on someone else (that would be punisher or xforce), or save my iso and decide after the nerf comes out?

5k iso is joke category... Otherwise yes, of course you want to level CMags. And Punisher too. You can ignore X completely.

Unknown

It's pretty simple math:

IF: (CMags Blue Covers) < 5

THEN: add (ISO) to (Punisher).

Unknown

Personally I wouldn't iso Cmags at all with the funbalance coming. At least even odds they will turn him to ****.

Unknown

Any updates on this funbalance?

IceIX ...

Unknown

When he'll be nerfed?

Unknown

After playing him a quite bit recently my take on rebalancing would look something like:

Red - take cost up to 5ap but destroy more tiles, maybe 7-8. Storm breaks 14 tiles for 10, but also gets AP so this seems vaguely in line. It also keeps it as a decent damage board shaking ability but reduces its effectiveness when combined with strike tiles by 2.5x (per AP) while keeping most of the self-synergy with blue & purple.

Blue - Make it unable to overwrite special tiles or environmental tiles; he is far too strong against goons at the moment. This would dramatically limit your ability to infinite chain due to decreasing the likelihood of getting 3 blue in the right spot with no special or environmental tiles in the way (Falcon and Storm would be super annoying to fight with this change). It would also help to increase the relative strength of characters that rely on high value tiles, especially countdowns.

Purple - I think the change where it actually required the right number of tiles was probably enough, and the ability generally seems fine.


I think keeping his board manipulation relatively cheap and central to his design is important, but decreasing the reliability of the 'infinite chain' after 5 blue and toning down his synergy with strike tiles are necessary for the sake of balance.

babinro

dongtackler wrote:

After playing him a quite bit recently my take on rebalancing would look something like:

Red - take cost up to 5ap but destroy more tiles, maybe 7-8. Storm breaks 14 tiles for 10, but also gets AP so this seems vaguely in line. It also keeps it as a decent damage board shaking ability but reduces its effectiveness when combined with strike tiles by 2.5x (per AP) while keeping most of the self-synergy with blue & purple.

Blue - Make it unable to overwrite special tiles or environmental tiles; he is far too strong against goons at the moment. This would dramatically limit your ability to infinite chain due to decreasing the likelihood of getting 3 blue in the right spot with no special or environmental tiles in the way (Falcon and Storm would be super annoying to fight with this change). It would also help to increase the relative strength of characters that rely on high value tiles, especially countdowns.

Purple - I think the change where it actually required the right number of tiles was probably enough, and the ability generally seems fine.


I think keeping his board manipulation relatively cheap and central to his design is important, but decreasing the reliability of the 'infinite chain' after 5 blue and toning down his synergy with strike tiles are necessary for the sake of balance.

This seems pretty accurate.

The red skill cost will increase. It might simply do more damage...destroy more tiles...or perhaps be reworked entirely. This is the skill that will change most radically.

I can only see blue changing in 2 ways.
1) The skill functions as is but costs 10 blue at 5 covers. This puts it functionally in line with captain america's powers but without the return of AP so it would cost less.
2) The skill costs 5 or 6 but the protect tiles are spawned at random.

Purple is fine as is and doesn't feel remotely over powered. The damage could be toned down a little but I don't feel its necessary. It's high damage single target power which several heroes have in various colours.

Unknown

babinro wrote:

I can only see blue changing in 2 ways.
1) The skill functions as is but costs 10 blue at 5 covers. This puts it functionally in line with captain america's powers but without the return of AP so it would cost less.
2) The skill costs 5 or 6 but the protect tiles are spawned at random.

I think it'd be a shame to do this to blue, both of those changes would make it a no-brainer to go 3/5/5. The fact that you can combo the way you can at the moment is why he's fun to play, I think they need to keep that but somehow try to tune it so that while you may be able to get a couple of blue combos to chain off, the odds of doing it 15 times in a row and winning a match purely on the first 5 blue you get needs to be reduced.

If the board isn't your friend you get a decent amount of match damage off the first set of blue, maybe a couple of matches and then the ability is functionally useless due to lack of blue tiles until the board gets shaken up in a major way. It needs to have a low cost to offset the fact that it doesn't do that much damage and is very contingent on the board being set up in a certain way.

As a countdown/strike tile overwriting tool that replaces 2 of them for 5ap it's really overpowered compared to all of the other options in the game- just look at falcon or she-hulk blue skills.



After thinking about it I don't even think blue really needs to be changed at all apart from not over-writing specials anymore. Combined with a nerf to the synergy his red has with strike tiles that should be enough given how strong LT and Sentry are; balancing Cmag down to Spiderman/DD tier shouldn't be the goal here. It's a much better policy to under-nerf and have to tweak it down a little later on than to throw him under the bus.

Spoit

I mean, realistically with their track record, yes they'll do something silly like only 1 match less than cap without the refund. AND only being able to overwrite basic. Basic blues. At random.

But why you would even suggest that, I have no idea. Unless you're a phantron alt

Unknown

If they HAVE to nerf cmags, and to be honest they probably do, they can't overdo it. I'm no expert, but in my experience, only his blue is op. If they made it so that, if you put the blue tiles so they make a match, that initial match cannot generate blue ap, then it would be fine. No more infinite spams of blue match 5s. Any cascades or tiles cleared by match 4 or 5s would still generate ap, just not the initial blue match. His red is very cheap but very weak. At max level you're doing about 300 damage for 2 ap. With punisher's red you're doing 1400 for 8. With the chance of cascade on cmags red that makes these two about even. His purple is powerful with a small cascade chance, but not overpowered, especially since most people only have 3 covers on it. Once again, I'm no expert on this sort of thing, just throwing suggestions out there for others to build on.

Unknown

Spoiler warning:

They're going to ruin CMags.

Unknown

Don't forget, CMags is an old character. There's no incentive for him to remain desirable, since plenty of people have him maxed and don't need to spend money on him. For this reason alone they're probably pretty tempted to nuke him to the ground.

Unknown

Easy, change blue to remove the shield tile placement, change it to a heal, and balanced. *evil laugh*

Unknown

Moon 17 wrote:

Don't forget, CMags is an old character. There's no incentive for him to remain desirable, since plenty of people have him maxed and don't need to spend money on him. For this reason alone they're probably pretty tempted to nuke him to the ground.

Ah, yes, how could I forget? It all goes back to money. I've kinda figured out that the purpose of over-nerfing the best and admittedly somewhat op characters is to increase desire for the new op characters (I'm lookin at you, sentry). But at least we can say we tried to keep him from being neutered

ThatOneGuyjp189512

at the very least they're gonna raise the cost of the red to 5AP. They're getting rid of any power that cost less AP with more covers(Mistress of the elements notwithstanding) especially ones that cost only 2AP at max covers(look what happened to spidey). When paired with a decent leveled patch with 5 covers in green, you're doing 1k damage for 2 red AP. That's the reason it's overpowered. so my thinking is that they'll raise the cost of blue to 7 or 8 blue, raise the cost of red to 5 and maybe add some damage on top(100dmg/1 red is reasonable) or maybe make it so the tiles it shatters generate AP cause sacrificing 5 red ap for at most 2 AP in another color isn't as OP as what his blue can do, i think what will happen with blue, they'll definitely raise the cost, 7 or 8 and make it so you have to have 5 covers to overwrite any tile.

Unknown

We pleaded for the same thing before the Spidey nerf and they still nuked him.