*** Magneto (Classic) ***

angua51

OK I admit it.
I have been a Prologue Healer since I first read about it on this forum and got my first OBW Blue just after I had graduated from playing the Prologue and started tentatively playing versus match with my puny roster of 1s and a few 2s.
I now have a 141 level Lazy Thor and Punisher and a few other 3s nearly there and I have been constantly using Prologue Healing to keep their beefy bodies whole.
BUT I hated doing it - healing Lazy Thor in Prologue takes for ever and playing the same boring goon match over and over is enough to make you consider giving up the game altogether.
Of course I only had to do this when I ran out of Health Packs or OBW failed to heal them in game but with the level of the teams I now face this happens fairly often.
I was also bored with the neverending OBW v OBW fights in PvP but couldn't see any way out. The whole thing became a necessary but boring chore a bit like washing up because it never seemed to be finished and there was more coming very soon.
So I decided to do a day without Prologue Healing or OBW.
Surprise Surprise!
It is possible and the game is fun again.
BUT only because I have finally (because of the last Fresh Cut and the Heroic 10 pack for 5000 pts in S2) a working CMAGS.
Please don't take him away. He is such fun to use, different from the other characters and is a foil to OBW while using her colors.
I need him to keep me away from the horror of Prologue Healing and OBW abuse.

Unknown

personalyl i still think mags is pretty balanced. just bump up his red to 5 and maybe lower the damage of purple a little. Blue I've never ever found to be really overpowered. It's more utility than game breaking like a 2 ap stunlock or a 2 ap damage/place green.

Phaserhawk

bonfire01 wrote:

@ Phaserhawk

You have managed to make Magneto weak on offence and irredeemably poor on defence there .

That blue is pretty terrible. Almost unusable at less than 4, covering protects is ****, can't use it to match really at that cost and the best you could hope for is a crit match cascading straight into a match which is not common enough to guarantee nor all that amazing, can't cover any important special tiles and 2x 75 protects requiring 3 matches to get going is decidedly meh for a lvl 141

Red is fine like that IMO except bonusses at 4 and 5 are so poor as to be worthless covers.

As I keep pointing out the average for a MT is about 7 matches, so at 5 that means under your plan 2.8k single target damage for 10ap or 280 damage per AP. Considering how his other 2 skills are **** and average at best in your setup that is just too underwhelming. MT is also pretty much his only worthwhile skill on defence so nerfing it on a hero who is TERRIBLE on defence now, before you nerf his other skills, makes no sense.

I will again compare him to BP.... you've made his blue only much use for the protect tiles and not incomperable to BP's underwhelming blue, his red is pretty average but maybe a little better than Bp's yellow and then an average 5 cover MT does less damage on a single target than a 5 cover RoP does on each individual member of the team for an extra 2ap....

C.Mags as he is now has an abusable mechanic and excessive strike tile synergy and a decent, but not more than that single target nuke. His broken mechanic is almost entirely removed by a single point increase in cost of his blue and removed by a second. His excessive strike tile synergy is removed by a cost of 5 in his red. Both skills become a lot weaker with JUST those changes... you then remove the ability to overwrite special tiles and you essentially gut his blue. No-one is itching for 2 so-so protect tiles for 6-7ap let alone 8. What's left then... a decent purple... so nerf that too? You could work for D3 with the quality of that balancing....

you have to realize what will happen to him. Sure my upgrade paths are off, but his blue at 8AP being able to overwrite almost everytile vs. what D3 will probably due to him is not terrible. If Captain America is any indication, D3 says the ability to overwrite everytile starts at 12AP. Mags does it at 5. Blue at 6 AP is still abuseable, just not as frequent. They don't want spamable infinte skills, so blue and red are going bye-bye. Period, end of story. The only hope is that Mags is still useable. But if you even think that D3 will leave his blue skill as is and not make it cost 12 is wrong. It's gonna have to give up something. If you want his skill to stay at 5-6 AP then blue will have to give up the ability to overwrite every single tile. If you want his blue to overwrite every single tile, then be prepared for his blue to cost 12AP, the only positive is that the shiled strength will probably get bumped big time. Don't get me wrong on his purple, I think it should be powerful, and I agree if you gut the first two you probably have to leave purple strong, I will concede, but dude, his blue is gonna get wrecked, be prepared.

Unknown

What do you guy/gals think:

I currently have a 3/3/3 level 70 Mags. I have 50k ISO and 1500 HP. If I get another Mags cover I'm thinking about buying the others. I know I should not due to the upcoming nerf, but I bought the final two blue spidy covers right after they announced his nerf and I was able to play him for about 3 months, until he passed into the negative zone.

Any advise would be helpful (that's not true... some advice will not help).

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

you have to realize what will happen to him. Sure my upgrade paths are off, but his blue at 8AP being able to overwrite almost everytile vs. what D3 will probably due to him is not terrible. If Captain America is any indication, D3 says the ability to overwrite everytile starts at 12AP. Mags does it at 5. Blue at 6 AP is still abuseable, just not as frequent. They don't want spamable infinte skills, so blue and red are going bye-bye. Period, end of story. The only hope is that Mags is still useable. But if you even think that D3 will leave his blue skill as is and not make it cost 12 is wrong. It's gonna have to give up something. If you want his skill to stay at 5-6 AP then blue will have to give up the ability to overwrite every single tile. If you want his blue to overwrite every single tile, then be prepared for his blue to cost 12AP, the only positive is that the shiled strength will probably get bumped big time. Don't get me wrong on his purple, I think it should be powerful, and I agree if you gut the first two you probably have to leave purple strong, I will concede, but dude, his blue is gonna get wrecked, be prepared.

Hope I don't come across as picking on you... just discussing,...

Overwriting any tile starts at 11 AP and does 3439 damage with a CD tile to return 9 AP, making future overwrites. I will just point out that 3439 is not incomperable to your average MT for C.Mags BEFORE any changes (7 tiles approx). Also the 12 cost version does a 2 turn stun, CD to return 10 AP and a strong protect tile.

So if YOU think they'll make his blue cost 12 then will I get a CD to return 10 of it and a 2 turn stun? I guess the fact it's 2 tiles placed is worth removing the stun but i'll still get 10/12 AP back right.... or the 3k+ damage... anything???
Or maybe L.Cap is secretly completely OP and needs a nerf to bring him in line with your vision of a new magneto?

I KNOW his blue will get wrecked but that''s NOT because it'll be balanced, it's because D3 are have been absolutely **** useless at balancing heroes with the possible exception of A.Wolvie although that's debatable. They left 1 a touch too strong (Thor and by extension Lazy Thor) and everyone else got COMPLETELY WRECKED. That, on the other hand, doesn't mean we need to come to the forum and post our own excessive nerfs. I like to think we should be posting something sensible and hoping (forlornly) they read it 8).

Incidentally I don't think his blue should be 6 AP and overwrite everything, Maybe too many posts has got it muddled so... I think 6 is not unreasonable for it if protects are unchanged and cannot overwrite everything. If he can still overwrite then 8/9 is probably reasonable. Remember... not every fight has anything worth overwriting AT ALL. I have a ton of fights where not a single enemy special tile appears. It does make him a fairly hard counter to, say, L.Cap or Sentry (strike tile at least) but then again so is Falcon.

Comparing to L.Cap's blue you lose the stun, have worse protect tiles combined than the single protect tile he places and no 10 AP refund on a CD. Conversely you are placing 2 tiles not one but, again, having 2 special tiles worth overwriting is even less common than 1 and often, heroes who make lots of special tiles (L.Daken for example) make weaker ones who's overwriting is far less impactful anyway.

I think people need to understand that Magneto's skills are ONLY good because they are abusable. At their core they are not amazing, simply upscaling cost and effect won't make him balanced, it'll make him weak. His red is like a cut down thunderous clap, if you increase the cost and damage (probable change I imagine) then you'll basically have a mini version. Now I don't know about you but I **** hate thunderous clap. While I MIGHT get a cascade I just as often get nothing. If you told me I could max a Hulk's level without having to have that skill at all i'd bite your hand off... at least then the AI wouldn't be firing off that POS instead of a better (read almost every) green when my team is on defence.

As far as his blue goes if I end up spending 8-9 AP for 2 blue tiles then they aren't worth using to make matches, the damage done will be pitiful for the AP spent. That just leaves the protect tiles and TBH no-one is begging for slow to get going, moderate protect tiles. EVEN if i can specifically place them.

His purple is ok... nothing more.

So while you may be right about what they'll do to Magneto doesn't mean we should be agreeing with it or, even more bizarrely, advocating it.

Unknown

Thought I would post some numbers for interest's sake....

So i've been using C.Mags a bunch to collect a bit of data on his purple and red. Wanted to see how many matches I was getting on purple and how many cascading matches I was getting on red...

Purple first then. A few times I waited a turn or 2 to avoid making almost no matches (I still wanted to win my games ) but over the course of 109 uses of MT I made a total of 784 tile swaps for an average of 7.2 swaps per usage. Lowest was 5, highest was 12. Most of the matches cluster between 6 and 9 with 7 and 8 having the highest numbers of times appearing.

Red next. 282 uses of C.Mags red in total of which 193 produced no matches at all after the tiles were destroyed. Of the remaining 89 uses I made a total of 189 matches, lowest being 1 match (unsurprisingly) and highest being 7. As expected 1 match was most common then 2 matches etc etc.

So overall for magnetic projectiles 282 uses produced 189 3 or 4 matches (mostly 3) for a total of 589 AP generated which is pretty close to 2 AP per use on average (2.08). So at 5 red you could almost say the ability is free... kind of. If the cost goes up to 5 as most ppl expect (but who knows what D3 will do) and the number of tiles destroyed stays the same then you could almost say it's real cost will be 3AP (although some of those matches will be environmental tiles or colours you can't use). That makes me think that a bonus damage value of something like 500-600 would be about right to give a reasonable damage per AP for a 141 but lower than pure damage abilities because you are in theory getting 2 random AP back and might destroy the odd special tile (low odds but at least they are there). OFC you might also destroy your own special tiles....

Just thought i'd share to help the discussion

Unknown

KLoganR wrote:

What do you guy/gals think:

I currently have a 3/3/3 level 70 Mags. I have 50k ISO and 1500 HP. If I get another Mags cover I'm thinking about buying the others. I know I should not due to the upcoming nerf, but I bought the final two blue spidy covers right after they announced his nerf and I was able to play him for about 3 months, until he passed into the negative zone.

Any advise would be helpful (that's not true... some advice will not help).

Honestly, I think you missed the boat on C.mags. I do not trust this dev group to adjust him fairly. They will turn him into a lower tier character and you will have wasted your money.

Unknown

KLoganR wrote:

I currently have a 3/3/3 level 70 Mags. I have 50k ISO and 1500 HP. If I get another Mags cover I'm thinking about buying the others. I know I should not due to the upcoming nerf, but I bought the final two blue spidy covers right after they announced his nerf and I was able to play him for about 3 months, until he passed into the negative zone.

3/3/3 can go way up (89?) and is already usable fine as is. If you use the existing HP on plus blue then it's huge improvement too.

I definitely played with those mid-range a lot and won the other covers. If the ruin comes before you use him you'll mis out a completely new aspect of playing.

Unknown

If you can upgrade to level 5 blue you should still do it because that's such a massive power gain to be worth it. But you shouldn't upgrade him to blue 4 and hope you get a 5th blue, that'd be too risky with an uncertain timetable for nerf.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

If you can upgrade to level 5 blue you should still do it because that's such a massive power gain to be worth it. But you shouldn't upgrade him to blue 4 and hope you get a 5th blue, that'd be too risky with an uncertain timetable for nerf.

Actually they are planning on nerfing you. They plan to do this by increasing cmags red ability cost to 12 red ap and changing it to randomly change 9 basic tiles to blue and dealing 3500 damage to target. His other abilities to remain unchanged

Unknown

Hi all ! Got a question regarding Cmag Red skill, magnetized projectile. When it says destroy 5 tiles, does that include strike, protect and/or web tiles ? I only used him in the recent simulator events, and noticed environmental tiles do get destroyed.

Another question. His damage for tiles destroyed depends on strike tiles, that's for the 5. So as for the extra damage, does it stack with strike tiles too ? I remembered reading somewhere in the forum saying his red skill got hidden damage. So what or where is the hidden damage ? Or is it i mixed up with the purple skill ?

over_clocked

Red doesn't destroy special tiles but can cause cascades that do. As for strike tiles, not sure but I think strike tile damage is added once for each damage increment, e.g. if your Magneto does tile destroyed damage + 100 extra damage, with a 100 strike tile you simply get 100 more damage. If you use red twice, that's 200 more damage.
Yeah it's the purple skill that gets ninja upgrades with levels.

Unknown

Strike tiles benefit once per target hit from any one action. For example World Rupture is considered as up to 16 separate actions that hits 3 guys, so it can potentially benefit 48 times. Magnetized Particle's initial damage is one action, so it benefits once, though any cascade caused by Magnetized Particle will also benefit from strike tiles. D3 did have enough foresight to make most things that looks like multi-hit count as one action, because otherwise Hailstorm + any decent strike tile would likely instantly kill anyone.

Unknown

oh... ic. So red doesn't destroy special tiles. thanks for the prompt response.
Initially, i thought with strike tiles, it is something like (5 destroyed tiles damage + strike tiles damage) + extra damage (+ strike tiles damage), which makes it insanely damaging.

over_clocked

Hannybal wrote:

oh... ic. So red doesn't destroy special tiles. thanks for the prompt response.
Initially, i thought with strike tiles, it is something like (5 destroyed tiles damage + strike tiles damage) + extra damage (+ strike tiles damage), which makes it insanely damaging.

Only oBW does that on Espionage
And some CD skills like Human Torch and Sentry's green count each CD separately.

angua51

Why are Classic Magneto covers being given as rewards in 2 recent events and why is he the featured character in the present event if he is going to be nerfed? Isn't this just setting people up for disappointment and also very dishonest?

Spoit

angua51 wrote:

Why are Classic Magneto covers being given as rewards in 2 recent events and why is he the featured character in the present event if he is going to be nerfed? Isn't this just setting people up for disappointment and also very dishonest?

Well, it's letting you respec him if you want.

unimatrix

Spoit wrote:

angua51 wrote:

Why are Classic Magneto covers being given as rewards in 2 recent events and why is he the featured character in the present event if he is going to be nerfed? Isn't this just setting people up for disappointment and also very dishonest?

Well, it's letting you respec him if you want.

We won't know what to re spec him. The details of the nerf isn't out. The cover expires in 5/6 days.
Nah, I think the devs are screwing with our iso store.

They should have a Devs character with "deadly nerf" ability, gives enemy 5 of color AP, blows whatever left after two turns, dealing insanely amount of damage.

OnesOwnGrief

I could have sworn that that IceIX stated that Magneto, even though he's on the chopping block, most likely will not be getting patched this month. Hawkeye is up next which will come most likely at the end of Season 2. If there's a Season 3, you'll most likely be able to still CMags at his current strength.

Spoit

Well, I can't really see the purple getting any weaker, unless they go and read the spreadsheet wrong again, so if you want to transition from the current 5/5/3 meta, that makes it easier