*** Daken (Classic) ***

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  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    If you're only using it for a cheap attack, rags might actually be useful, for once
  • Meto5000Meto5000 Posts: 583
    141 Daken Blue at 4:
    623 Base Damage + 358 per Strike tile up to 4. Converts 2 tiles.

    141 Daken Blue at 5:
    623 Base Damage + 435 per Strike tile up to 4. Converts 2 tiles.
  • Meto5000Meto5000 Posts: 583
    Highly doubt he gets a new skill. It goes against the whole point of the lazy characters, which is for the devs to be able go push out a 99% identical character at a higher lvl to male money while saving time to put towards other things (mostly the first,as the second was never an issue before when they weren't releasing a "New" character every 10-14 days). Plus, totally doesn't need more levels. If anything, ppl should be happy with a lower cover dakan as it will hopefully be easier to complete. This is going to make spidey that much more used though.

    If they do give him an ability, I would go with the name eviscerate and make it destroy friendly strike tiles for an amount of damage.Ex: costs 14 red ap to destroy all friendly strike tiles doing 500 damage per a strike tile. Could even add a venom style value, something like "instantly ko the opponent if there are more than 12 strike tiles on the board. Levels could decrease the instant ko value (starts at 16, minus 2 per a level) nd damage up (starts at 300, plus 100 per level). Simple, works with his tiles, isn't overpowered due to his ease of creating tiles, takes a mild amount of thought when using..always a plus. Do I drop Evicerate on the full hp hulk or do I use the strike tiles to damage the other character first? Etc etc blah blah blah. The ability would be red. It should be black, but that's already linked to another power (doesn't mean they couldn't swap it). As long as his strike tiles aren't too op nothing else matters THAT much. Also, I am far Moe inclined to let him have a new ability and go 141 if his heal is different. Maybe keep the healing and heat aspect (so the negative if below a #of yellow tiles) but instead of healing every turn make it so he only heals when he matches, black (purple? Whatever color his heal is). So it would be like astonishing's New yellow except it could heal even when above 50% AMD would have the negative be losing health possibly every turn instead.

    Just want to point out that this dude pretty much called Daken's third power. Kudos.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    Meto5000 wrote:
    141 Daken Blue at 4:
    623 Base Damage + 358 per Strike tile up to 4. Converts 2 tiles.

    141 Daken Blue at 5:
    623 Base Damage + 435 per Strike tile up to 4. Converts 2 tiles.
    So 77 per strike tile for a total of 308?

    5/4/4 might be a viable build then
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    thanks for the numbers. Wow, this guys got a few diferent builds, but it's for certain you will want 5 in purple.

    Crunching the numbers at builds the Chemical Reaction damage is as follows

    5/5/3--1697
    5/4/4--2055
    5/3/5--2363

    the difference from lvl 3 to 4 is 358, and the difference from lvl 4 to 5 is 308.

    now lets look at blue from another direction and only assuming Daken strike tiles

    5/5/3--removes 171 damage from the board
    5/4/4--removes 228 damage from the board
    5/3/5--removes 228 dmg from the board

    If you use blue early, you reduce damage, so all of a sudden 5/5/3 might be the better AI defensive build since we know AI will use Chemical Reaction as soon as possible making you lose up to 3 strike tiles and 171 dmg per turn unless it's replenished.

    Where you will have to watch your build is if you pair Daken with other strike tile generators.
    BP--153 strike tiles
    Psy--192 strike tile
    Pun--104 strike tiles
    Patch--148 strike tile
    Fury--539 strike tile

    Using blue can remove these tiles as well so Daken can be a hinderence defensively from the AI. IMO if you are running Daken as the only strike tile generator, then for sure go 5/4/4 or 5/3/5. If you plan on running Daken with Wolvie, or Pun, or BP, you might want to think about 5/5/3 to lower the chances of removing strike tiles.

    The positives of 5/4/4 over 5/3/5 is that with the extra heal, you can mitigate two turns of heat with one turn of heal.

    I don't think you can go wrong with 5/5/3, 5/4/4 or 5/3/5. They all have there strengths and weaknesses.

    5/5/3--a weaker active blue doing 666 less damage then 5/3/5 but doesn't remove as many strike tiles, making this safer to use mid match to finish a guy off without have to worry about loss of strike tile dmg over the next few turns, it also has the more consistent heal

    5/3/5--strongest active blue doing most damage, over 308 more than 5/4/4 but it does remove 4 strike tiles and those could be valuable especially if you used skill early to mid game, this has the the weakest heal,

    5/4/4--hybrid of the other two builds. It has all the strengths of blue dmg as the 5/3/5 but also those weaknesses, it also has most of the strengths of the heal of 5/5/3.

    I personally tend to hedge my bets, and while I like all of the builds. I also try to figure out who I would pair Daken with. Obviously Thor and Hulk are very strong contenders since it helps Daken get strike tiles out. On the defensive you want 5/5/3 as the AI will spam blue as soon as you get it. But when attacking teams you want 5/3/5 since you will be in control of when you cast blue and can be smart about it. I honestly think that if I am running Daken with other strike tile generators and Daken is my only blue, I think 5/3/5 is the better as it does give you a cheap early game nuke that a 5/5/3 build takes a while to overcome. I mean assuming you match 2 turns of green to replace the 4 lost. the dmg lost from 5/4/4 and 5/3/5 to 5/5/3 is gonna be 57 per turn assuming Daken's tiles removed, that would take 12 turns of matching to break even from 5/3/5. Now if you removed 4 Patch, Psylocke, or BP tiles vs. 3 that would take you 4 turns of matching to where 5/5/3 is the better build over 5/3/5. Now the odds of you only have there strike tiles out and none of Daken's is gonna be small, and if you paired Daken with Falcon the numbers will be different, but unless you get absolute bad luck, it's gonna take probably 6-7 turns of matching to outstrip 5/3/5's initial damage.

    In summation, if you care more about the heal and long term match damage, then build your Daken 5/5/3, if you are about quick strikes and don't care about healing, go 5/3/5. 5/4/4 while it looks viable, is actually the worst of all of these as 5/5/3 can recoup the lost dmg on blue with only losing Daken's tiles only in 6 turns, and the others (Patch, BP, Psylocke) in 3. And compared to 5/3/5 you only lose 116 health between 5% and 7% while giving up 308 extra dmg on blue.

    *edit, Falcon info* Just some quick numbers, falcon pumps 3 of your tiles each by 79 each. So assuming you have 6 Daken tiles out and they each got 1 boost of 79 from 2 yellow tile matches, those strike tiles are sitting at 136 dmg. The dmg loss between losing 3 and 4 is well 136. 5/5/3 can make up the 666 dmg from a 5/3/5 in 4.89 turns, or basically on 5th tile match you are better for using 5/5/3. Remember, none of this takes into account using abilities. 5/5/3 can outstrip the blue damage from 5/4/4 in 2.63 turns or 3. After careful analysis I think I like 5/5/3 better than 5/4/4 or 5/3/5 becaue I won't lose as much damage over the match. That being said. If you plan to use Daken as your finisher then by all means go 5/3/5. But if you plan on using Daken as a bruiser, and up fighting alot, then I think 5/5/3 is gonna be the better build for you.
  • So, in Krackadoom, I've been seeing a decent amount of players with level 141 Dakens. So, what I can't figure out is if my MMR got super high and I'm against the top players now, or are more people spending a stupendous amount of money to try to get three star Dakens than in previous new character releases.
  • So, in Krackadoom, I've been seeing a decent amount of players with level 141 Dakens. So, what I can't figure out is if my MMR got super high and I'm against the top players now, or are more people spending a stupendous amount of money to try to get three star Dakens than in previous new character releases.

    It'll piss me off if it's because people are still spending mass $$ on this game.
  • These people HAD to have spent a stupendous amount of money in order to max their Daken's out. The max amount of Dakens that could have been awarded from Heroic Osborn was 3, and then there was just the 1 Daken handed out for a progression award in the last PVP.

    If I had the money to just toss out the window like that, I would probably do the same, as 3* Daken looks like an incredibly good character.

    Edit: Or these players have been hoarding HP, and had enough saved up to max out their Dakens, but I'm going to guess most of them bought the HP to max his covers and then bought ISO to max his level.
  • I'd venture the majority of maxed out dakens are coming from vets that have been hoarding HP and ISO for the past few months that we've been waiting for his release.
  • ClintmanClintman Posts: 800 Critical Contributor
    Jkells wrote:
    These people HAD to have spent a stupendous amount of money in order to max their Daken's out. The max amount of Dakens that could have been awarded from Heroic Osborn was 3, and then there was just the 1 Daken handed out for a progression award in the last PVP.

    If I had the money to just toss out the window like that, I would probably do the same, as 3* Daken looks like an incredibly good character.

    Edit: Or these players have been hoarding HP, and had enough saved up to max out their Dakens, but I'm going to guess most of them bought the HP to max his covers and then bought ISO to max his level.

    Speaking for myself, and I took Daken from 1/1/1 to 3/3/3 then got the 1100 progression reward, I saved ISO, and spent HP that are a combination of winnings and HP purchased on the last sale. VERY few people can afford the stupid exchange rate on ISO.
    I could have bought the last 3 covers, but I expect them to be rewards soon enough.

    I still think they are going the wrong way with monetization, they should be making the deals better, not worse.

    Imagine how many people would buy the 200hp daily deal if it was just a guaranteed 3*.
  • I'm not surprised. Imo, Daken is one of the most economical characters to be put in the game since pre-nerf Rags.
  • I'm not surprised. Imo, Daken is one of the most economical characters to be put in the game since pre-nerf Rags.

    Just imagine the rage if he gets nerfed.
  • prymet1me wrote:
    I'm not surprised. Imo, Daken is one of the most economical characters to be put in the game since pre-nerf Rags.

    Just imagine the rage if he gets nerfed.

    You mean when he gets nerfed
  • The thing I have a hard time believing about the "I stored up HP from tourneys" line is that don't you guys buy shields to make sure you reach the top rewards?
  • The thing I have a hard time believing about the "I stored up HP from tourneys" line is that don't you guys buy shields to make sure you reach the top rewards?

    Clearly you never heard about the meta game inside the meta game that's part of the meta game.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    On the defensive you want 5/5/3 as the AI will spam blue as soon as you get it.

    I look at it more as "On the defensive, you want to deal as much damage as possible in the fewest turns", which would encourage 5/3/5. His sustain only becomes problematic when you're down to your last man and struggling to find an ability to finish him off, and every chunk of damage helps when trying to get that last hit of damage in to an opponent. Consider that most players go into battles with 75-80% health in an optimum situation, and that 2k+ damage can really add up and put some pressure on, especially if it can lead to a cascade (which is rare, but certainly possible).
  • The thing I have a hard time believing about the "I stored up HP from tourneys" line is that don't you guys buy shields to make sure you reach the top rewards?

    I stored HP from tourneys. I might store some more by just not buying any more cover slots and selling Bagman / Yelena to make room for Sentry / Nick Fury. Repeat with 1* Hawkeye.
  • If you're fighting for first place, you're probably losing HP on shields, but a lot of those guys have a stockpile from before season one. And you can shield and still make HP if you just drop a three hour one at the end. It won't give you first place finish, but it'll give you a score comparable to a lot of top ten alliance members.
  • The thing I have a hard time believing about the "I stored up HP from tourneys" line is that don't you guys buy shields to make sure you reach the top rewards?

    I could easily buy 4 covers from saved-up HP (5 counting what I spent buying one actually a few weeks ago, could save a lot on extra slots too 500 a pop by dropping unused characters). The 6 mentioned here that goes 1/1/1 to 3/3/3 is perfectly reasonable, and the ISO too. I was looking at 180k yesterday, still have 110 after maxing LT finally, that is good for the first 100ish levels.

    I quite hate dakens, both old and new, but many people like the passives play. We'll see how LD changes the metagame, despite the title doubt we will see all that many maxed ones and those who do can deal with him (think I fought at least one yesterday and won no problem gaining the 40 points, too bad was nailed from 0 pointer at the same time).

    He would be so much more tolerable if we could turn off the fraking animations at least for passives.

    And most HP dropped from PVE events without any spending (beyond time).
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kamahl_FoK wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    On the defensive you want 5/5/3 as the AI will spam blue as soon as you get it.

    I look at it more as "On the defensive, you want to deal as much damage as possible in the fewest turns", which would encourage 5/3/5. His sustain only becomes problematic when you're down to your last man and struggling to find an ability to finish him off, and every chunk of damage helps when trying to get that last hit of damage in to an opponent. Consider that most players go into battles with 75-80% health in an optimum situation, and that 2k+ damage can really add up and put some pressure on, especially if it can lead to a cascade (which is rare, but certainly possible).

    I agree with everything you say, but....is removing strike tiles for max blue damage going to help or harm you? That is the question you have to ask with Daken everytime. If you pair him with Falcon, yeah, it may not be in your best interest for 5/3/5, but pair him with say Lazy Thor and Hood, then yes at that point I think you want 5/3/5, so it really depends on how you want to use him.
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