Upcoming Patch Preview - R50 Discussion

IceIX

Toxicadam wrote:

I've never seen anyone from demiurge comment on giving the user the ability to tell which goon laid down a specific countdown tile?

has it ever been discussed as being something that needs to be corrected, or is it intentional? It's probably been one of the most requested fixes since the game has begun.

It's one of the many things on the QoL updates list of things to do when someone gets spare time. Problem with that list is that it's ever growing and that they're all "nice to have" upgrades of systems that are working "OK but not perfect", so it's hard to place weight on any of them versus adding something new or refining something with real rough edges that needs better functionality.

So yes. It's been discussed. No, we don't have a timeline or even a "Yep! It'll get done most definitely" for it. It'd be great though.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

thatguy13 wrote:

How long is the focus on Alliances going to continue and how much more are you going to cater to alliances? If alliances were merely an added bonus I'd have no issue but every day it seems more like a rich get richer pyramid scheme. I may be missing something but how do alliances benefit casual players?

You know that 3* alliance reward? Top 250 alliances are getting it in current tourney. That's potentially 250x20 people getting a 3*. Before you had to place like top 2 to get all 3x covers. It's much easier to acquire all 3 or a single cover in general now.

For casual players as the question stands? Give me a break!
Just follow your own math, are casual players in 20-people alliances? Or 99% either alone or in random 5 people ones that will have average 2 people playing at the same tournament?

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

Sure, groups who could organize for shelling out the 20k HPs are easier shot for the covers on average but that kinda well fits the quote. When the alliance idea started to float around nothing implied black hulks will be obtained only through them just a few weeks in -- actually we joked with it in the 'evil' thread. Probably we shouldn't disclose those ideas after all.

Unknown

who said that a "casual" alliance had to be only 5 players?
You can easily open 2-3 spots from earned HP alone.
Even more if then one person pays for the slots.

So with that said a casual group could have 7-8 people in their group easily enough.

Unknown

And they have rotated the colors of the covers if I'm not mistaken. So while you may miss the black hulk in one tourney alliance reward you will get it in a different one as a single player award.

I honestly don't see why they shouldn't reward the hardest-core players. Casuals can convert to that crowd by figuring out how to create a bigger alliance or get into one.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

I've never seen anyone from demiurge comment on giving the user the ability to tell which goon laid down a specific countdown tile?

has it ever been discussed as being something that needs to be corrected, or is it intentional? It's probably been one of the most requested fixes since the game has begun.

It's one of the many things on the QoL updates list of things to do when someone gets spare time. Problem with that list is that it's ever growing and that they're all "nice to have" upgrades of systems that are working "OK but not perfect", so it's hard to place weight on any of them versus adding something new or refining something with real rough edges that needs better functionality.

So yes. It's been discussed. No, we don't have a timeline or even a "Yep! It'll get done most definitely" for it. It'd be great though.

Well, abstract things like customer satisfaction hardly worth 10 minutes of time to insert an extra word in the text.
A message to your designer: if he can't feel how gamebreaking it is to watch the counter that could belong to several identical-looking goons and you can deal worth one of them, he does not deserve to pick up his salary. The UI shows all the signs that your people hardly play the game at all -- in that case they could at least listen to those who do.

Some companies use stack-exchange-like feedback system where the requests can be upvoted and after X votes it automaticly creates a feature request in the backlog. And priority is assigned by the vote count. You could do exactly that, and not struggle with "what weight to assign" problem for a while.

Unknown

dlaw008 wrote:

And they have rotated the colors of the covers if I'm not mistaken. So while you may miss the black hulk in one tourney alliance reward you will get it in a different one as a single player award.

I honestly don't see why they shouldn't reward the hardest-core players. Casuals can convert to that crowd by figuring out how to create a bigger alliance or get into one.

Awarding is not a problem.

The problem is discrepancy in words. It was said to be pure auxillary stuff, optional extra fun.
Instead it arrived with taking 50 HP and a *** cover prize from the individuals.

Guess no one would have cared if the alliance ladder got an additional cover or whatever -- leaving the individual stuff as it was.

Also it would be less fuss if it was properly said from the first time that alliance will be quasi-mandatory for those who want to win stuff.

And it would be fair to admit it at least after the fact instead of keep pretending like it was generous throwing cookies from a helicopter.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

thatguy13 wrote:

How long is the focus on Alliances going to continue and how much more are you going to cater to alliances? If alliances were merely an added bonus I'd have no issue but every day it seems more like a rich get richer pyramid scheme. I may be missing something but how do alliances benefit casual players?

You know that 3* alliance reward? Top 250 alliances are getting it in current tourney. That's potentially 250x20 people getting a 3*. Before you had to place like top 2 to get all 3x covers. It's much easier to acquire all 3 or a single cover in general now.

For casual players as the question stands? Give me a break!
Just follow your own math, are casual players in 20-people alliances? Or 99% either alone or in random 5 people ones that will have average 2 people playing at the same tournament?

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

Sure, groups who could organize for shelling out the 20k HPs are easier shot for the covers on average but that kinda well fits the quote. When the alliance idea started to float around nothing implied black hulks will be obtained only through them just a few weeks in -- actually we joked with it in the 'evil' thread. Probably we shouldn't disclose those ideas after all.

You can be in a top 250 alliance with a 10 member alliance with little effort. When does a "casual" player score top 2? More 3*'s are being out into the community through alliances than prior to alliances. It's fact. More people are receiving 3*. My math isn't even necessary now that ICE has confirmed the #'s.

IceIX

pasa_ wrote:

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

Far more than 3. If you want to get into Top 20-50 positions as a 5 man Alliance then sure, that's rough. But the median score across all users for the last Tourney was under 75K and across all Alliance members not much higher. 5 users in an Alliance that scored 100K each (which wasn't difficult) would push them pretty high up in the alliance rankings. Now, as Alliances get more entrenched for users as something to do in-game and the competition gets fiercer that may change. But a 5 man Alliance is *perfectly* viable right now.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

Far more than 3. If you want to get into Top 20-50 positions as a 5 man Alliance then sure, that's rough. But the median score across all users for the last Tourney was under 75K and across all Alliance members not much higher. 5 users in an Alliance that scored 100K each (which wasn't difficult) would push them pretty high up in the alliance rankings. Now, as Alliances get more entrenched for users as something to do in-game and the competition gets fiercer that may change. But a 5 man Alliance is *perfectly* viable right now.

Wow. Then it's definitely possible to get up there with a 5 man alliance as many folks scored over 250k. Even with not amazing rosters.

Unknown

Rajjeq wrote:

Wow. Then it's definitely possible to get up there with a 5 man alliance as many folks scored over 250k. Even with not amazing rosters.

That's great to hear. Though I was really asking about PvP, did you also get the black Hulk? IceIX, can you give figures for that too?

And what was the total score for the alliance at #251 in that PvE?

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

Far more than 3. If you want to get into Top 20-50 positions as a 5 man Alliance then sure, that's rough. But the median score across all users for the last Tourney was under 75K and across all Alliance members not much higher. 5 users in an Alliance that scored 100K each (which wasn't difficult) would push them pretty high up in the alliance rankings. Now, as Alliances get more entrenched for users as something to do in-game and the competition gets fiercer that may change. But a 5 man Alliance is *perfectly* viable right now.

Just to weigh in on this current debate, I was running a very high scoring 5-man alliance for the last PVE event, and fell out of the top 250. The only way I managed to get back up there was by using up my HP stash, buying two member slots and hiring 'freelancers' to push our score up. I'd be very interested to know how other 5-man alliances managed to maintain their spot in the top 250 without some kind of shadiness... I think we all scored around 250k each (did anyone hit 300k?) and needed around another 300k to break into the top 250. How does that match up with the figures??

IceIX

pasa_ wrote:

Rajjeq wrote:

Wow. Then it's definitely possible to get up there with a 5 man alliance as many folks scored over 250k. Even with not amazing rosters.

That's great to hear. Though I was really asking about PvP, did you also get the black Hulk? IceIX, can you give figures for that too?

PVP is Top 100 instead of 250, so it's tightened a bit there. Again though, Alliance median score wasn't much more than 200 across all Alliance members. I'd have to go through and click each count specifics, but I can quickly say over a dozen 5s did and more could have if they had tried as a group. It wouldn't have taken much more than 400 a piece to hit it. So not *easy*, but definitely viable to be a 5 at this point in time still.

Unknown

And comes to mind, now that scrolling is improved, will we get to see other parts of score boards beyond top10 and the current +-5 window anytime?

HailMary

pasa_ wrote:

For casual players as the question stands? Give me a break!
Just follow your own math, are casual players in 20-people alliances? Or 99% either alone or in random 5 people ones that will have average 2 people playing at the same tournament?

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

pasa_ wrote:

That's great to hear. Though I was really asking about PvP, did you also get the black Hulk? IceIX, can you give figures for that too?

And what was the total score for the alliance at #251 in that PvE?

If you're comparing it to pre-alliance PvP reward tiers, the "casual players" emphasis fails. The three-cover Top 5 reward (which the alliance reward "stole") is not intended for the typical "casual player." I remember the very first time I placed in PvP top 10 (darn those shiny-but-useless DD covers). I was already playing daily, and constantly feeling the pinch for roster slots. At the very least, I was transitioning out of "casual."

So, the real question isn't "What alliance score can 5 arbitrary casual players get?" The question is, at minimum, "What alliance score can 5 consistently-Top-5 players get, and is that enough for Alliance Top 100?" The truly meaningful question is this: What alliance size would a group of 5 Top-5 players generally expand to, and would this maybe-just-5-but-likely-more-people alliance get enough points for Alliance Top 100 if they seriously tried?

ToryTory

IceIX:

Is there any word about implementation of Steam to iOS? A lot of players are inquiring but never got a direct answer. Some of us heard and picked up MPQ on Steam, played a bunch, and invested a lot of money only to find out there isn't the option to play on the go from your iPhone or iPad. My wife got me an iPad just for MPQ hah!

I know there's a NDA on the beta from back in Nov. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any way for me to do a one time transfer to my iPad since I spend more time at work than I do at home. A steam to Facebook would be ideal. Thanks!

Unknown

ToryTory wrote:

IceIX:

Is there any word about implementation of Steam to iOS? A lot of players are inquiring but never got a direct answer. Some of us heard and picked up MPQ on Steam, played a bunch, and invested a lot of money only to find out there isn't the option to play on the go from your iPhone or iPad. My wife got me an iPad just for MPQ hah!

I know there's a NDA on the beta from back in Nov. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any way for me to do a one time transfer to my iPad since I spend more time at work than I do at home. A steam to Facebook would be ideal. Thanks!

I'd love to see cross platform as well. I'll buy a stark salary if I can play both on my Steam account and my nexus 5, I swear!

ToryTory

Telepath wrote:

ToryTory wrote:

IceIX:

Is there any word about implementation of Steam to iOS? A lot of players are inquiring but never got a direct answer. Some of us heard and picked up MPQ on Steam, played a bunch, and invested a lot of money only to find out there isn't the option to play on the go from your iPhone or iPad. My wife got me an iPad just for MPQ hah!

I know there's a NDA on the beta from back in Nov. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any way for me to do a one time transfer to my iPad since I spend more time at work than I do at home. A steam to Facebook would be ideal. Thanks!

I'd love to see cross platform as well. I'll buy a stark salary if I can play both on my Steam account and my nexus 5, I swear!

Let's say since I've started playing in Dec. I've bought Starks salary a couple times already. But they were all on sale or offered a bonus! . I really enjoy the game and don't mind spending some money. I'm by no means rich, but given I have 300 hours played, I'm more than happy to support them. Do I agree with all their decisions? No, but they have made something so simple into something complex and fun and that's what I support. If they change, then not another penny will be spent.

Unknown

Haha, I'm in no way insulting people who spend money on the game. I just don't know what else I can bribe them with

daveomite

HailMary wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

For casual players as the question stands? Give me a break!
Just follow your own math, are casual players in 20-people alliances? Or 99% either alone or in random 5 people ones that will have average 2 people playing at the same tournament?

IceIX, please disclose some data: in the last tournament how many 5-people alliances appeared in the top250? My guess is less than 3.

pasa_ wrote:

That's great to hear. Though I was really asking about PvP, did you also get the black Hulk? IceIX, can you give figures for that too?

And what was the total score for the alliance at #251 in that PvE?

If you're comparing it to pre-alliance PvP reward tiers, the "casual players" emphasis fails. The three-cover Top 5 reward (which the alliance reward "stole") is not intended for the typical "casual player." I remember the very first time I placed in PvP top 10 (darn those shiny-but-useless DD covers). I was already playing daily, and constantly feeling the pinch for roster slots. At the very least, I was transitioning out of "casual."

So, the real question isn't "What alliance score can 5 arbitrary casual players get?" The question is, at minimum, "What alliance score can 5 consistently-Top-5 players get, and is that enough for Alliance Top 100?" The truly meaningful question is this: What alliance size would a group of 5 Top-5 players generally expand to, and would this maybe-just-5-but-likely-more-people alliance get enough points for Alliance Top 100 if they seriously tried?

As a NON alliance member, I understand what pasa is saying. I'm a lone person, only been playing now almost 42 days. I have 29 characters, only two are 85's, and an extreme short list of 3's I can hardly do anything with until I get more cards.

I managed once to win most dailies and the overall brotherhood iso tournament in the couple of weeks of my playing, but that alone didn't help much with my overall position, as the next event I was severely outmatched and missing key characters.

This last event, before the last Steve Rogers one, I think I managed just under 200k or so, placed top 150 I think.

This new event though, I don't even have Steve Rogers yet, so I don't really have much of a chance. But I am trying, and still clearing out nodes.

In a way, I'm a "casual" player, but play for hours each day. I've now invested money in the game, more than I'd like to admit, just to level up some characters, so I'm getting stronger at least.

But when alliances have the clear and undisputed upper hand, and constantly faced with massive scaling because of other players in my bracket, and constantly fighting frustrating 20 iso again and again, it makes it hard to stay enthused.

But it does seem like there is more focus on alliances than the game itself. For those not in an alliance, and lie me, completely cleared the prologue, and only have a few new nodes open a day in a tournament that I can't even play the "essentials", it's a bit lackluster is all.

Not asking for any handouts, but would be nice if at least people who don't have an essential character, then maybe it uses a loaner so you can at least clear it.

Maybe one fix would be to separate single players from brackets with alliance members in them, so scaling doesn't affect them quite as bad. And/or, if/when my team gets leveled up enough, then maybe I'll get asked to join some alliance, or I'll need to create one, then all of a sudden I'll no longer be a lone player.

HailMary

daveomite wrote:

As a NON alliance member, I understand what pasa is saying. I'm a lone person, only been playing now almost 42 days. I have 29 characters, only two are 85's, and an extreme short list of 3's I can hardly do anything with until I get more cards.

I feel ya.

EDIT: I think you're progressing a bit faster than I did. Just for reference purposes, I'm on day 76, and I've just leveled 2 3*s past my maxed 2*s.
Here's me a month ago: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4199#p68876

daveomite wrote:

In a way, I'm a "casual" player, but play for hours each day. I've now invested money in the game, more than I'd like to admit, just to level up some characters, so I'm getting stronger at least.

Yeah, I'm not sure what people generally consider "casual." IMHO, 200K in Sim and several hours/day is beyond "casual." That's about where I am, after compensating for different roster strengths.

daveomite wrote:

But when alliances have the clear and undisputed upper hand, and constantly faced with massive scaling because of other players in my bracket, and constantly fighting frustrating 20 iso again and again, it makes it hard to stay enthused.

Agreed on scaling. Some of my fellow Djangoliers with sub-85 teams were hitting L200+ enemies in Simulator. It was not good.

daveomite wrote:

But it does seem like there is more focus on alliances than the game itself. For those not in an alliance, and lie me, completely cleared the prologue, and only have a few new nodes open a day in a tournament that I can't even play the "essentials", it's a bit lackluster is all.

I feel ya, and I agree with a lot of it. But, scaling isn't directly affected by the alliance system. I suppose you can argue that alliance cover rewards affect character-locked nodes in subsequent events, though.

daveomite wrote:

This new event though, I don't even have Steve Rogers yet, so I don't really have much of a chance. But I am trying, and still clearing out nodes...

Not asking for any handouts, but would be nice if at least people who don't have an essential character, then maybe it uses a loaner so you can at least clear it.

Agreed. A loaner character for such nodes would be nice. I remember not having Psylocke until the last set of Brotherhood subs. I missed out on all her character-locked nodes in previous sub. Admittedly, now that I do have all required characters, I rather enjoy the lower scaling on the nodes with character lockouts.

daveomite wrote:

Maybe one fix would be to separate single players from brackets with alliance members in them, so scaling doesn't affect them quite as bad. And/or, if/when my team gets leveled up enough, then maybe I'll get asked to join some alliance, or I'll need to create one, then all of a sudden I'll no longer be a lone player.

Again, I don't think scaling is directly affected by the alliance mechanic itself, though alliance leaderboards do push people to score higher. That's more palpable in PvP than PvE, though, since recent PvEs (esp. the current one) have been long slogs, and we've had, what... 5 of them, virtually back-to-back, and all fairly important? I look forward to the end of the current spree of new characters, so I can just screw around in a PvE and not worry about getting all possible new covers. Sigh.

Also, if you haven't yet, check out the "Alliance looking for players thread": viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5309 Some alliances have no roster reqs, some are just individual players looking to get alliance rewards, and some actively recruit lower-level daily players. At the same time, throw your name into the hat here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5159