** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

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Comments

  • I never face any OBW teams. I did try one team but I almost lost so I might plan to avoid those teams but eventually I'll use my OBW once I get her to a nice level. I can only get her up to 53 until i can get more covers.

    once i get her purple to 3, If i keep getting more purple before i get more blues (her blue is currently 2/5) I will have to keep tossing them. I'm not going to bring purple to 5 then wait so long for the blues to show up.
  • edited May 2014
    For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

    Do you think they need to make some change to this character? I know the game have some problems, but right now, this is really making me not enjoy the game and start thinking of quitting, if a game doesnt entertain and just frustrates you, guess the best thing is to go look for another game. Im really incline in doing this right now, i feel the answers and the response time of the developer are not the best. Im starting to lose faith in their ability to maintain the game enjoyable.

    Is this happening to anybody else?
  • BearVengerBearVenger Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    Actually, no. I play a lot of Original Black Widow, as she was easier to build up than a 3* character, and she makes my teams competitive against 3* teams whose hitpoints and damage outclass me. Playing with OBW is like extending your life bar.

    Secondly, she's the only character who both heals and steals. Without her, my 2*s and mid 3*s will get eaten up by 141s' power moves. And this game thinks highly enough of me to throw those teams at me. It's not like I just chose to only play teams tougher than me.

    Thirdly, she's quite beatable when played by the AI and quite beatable when shes on my team. She's not an instant "win" button, and I go out of my way to take on teams with OBW. In fact, playing with healers makes matches go longer, which means fewer victories per hour if you and I were going head-to-head for tournament placement. Even if I win, I'm not winning as fast as someone running pure offense.

    Fourth, she's responsible for letting me recover between rounds. If you'd like to nerf her, I'll give you my workplace's mailing address, and you can send me Android gift cards so I can purchase more healthpacks and stop annoying you with her presence.

    Fifth, in an MPQ world of nonstop offensive heroes, it's nice to have a workable support hero. Really, it's nice to just have another character who isn't another variation on pure offense/strike tiles/attack tiles. The last thing this game needs is more of the same.

    I'm sorry you don't like seeing OBW. I don't like seeing 2* or 3* Thor, but I know why people like him, and I've developed strategies to counter him.

    It sounds like your frustration is that a lot of people find success with a character you don't like to play as. Barring a bad cascade, she's not a match-killer. And if she were, there's a skip button to minimize her in your matchups. Please don't request to fix something that's not OP or broken.
  • Original Black Widow is OP, she should be a 3* character.

    And yes, Thor is also in almost every team, is him or Ares plus Black widow and whoever the event makes you use.

    Im not saying is not beatable, but is not fun to play against her. The problem one can found when playing against her is a lucky early cascade that leads to her using her violet skill, which cripples you enormously and makes her teammates use their skills a lot faster. But again, the problem for me is that is not fun, i dont enjoy playing against her. While i dont enjoy playing against Thor either, he doesnt mess with your plans so much, you can make a plan and, while you may be hit with almost all his abilities, you dont feel cheated, he hits for exactly what you already know he damage. With obw, she is robbing crystals all the time, messing your calculations and pumping her teammates. One lucky cascade and you are down 20 crystals, and the reverse for the other team.

    She snowballs to hard, if she starts well, even the stupid AI can **** you. (which is fine, to lose against AI). Its not the only character that can do this, Hulk, storm, Magneto of the top of my mind, but is the one more common.
  • ClintmanClintman Posts: 800 Critical Contributor
    It is also not like there are a lot of choices in 2* land for a solid team. Its Either OBW/Tank/Req or Mags/C Storm/Req.

    Just keep building your MMR you will long for the days of OBW when you square off against LT/BP, LT/Hood etc.
  • I pretty much always play Original Black Widow in... anything, because I need her healing ability. My only high leveled characters are 2-Stars, so I need her to give me at least a decent chance in Events. It does suck playing against her but until people are able to get higher leveled 3-Star characters, it's going to keep happening.
  • rixmithrixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    I don't think OBW is really the problem. Here's why... My team is stuck at the maxed 2* level and I'm pretty much stuck running Ares/OBW on offense for two reasons:

    #1. I want to end each fight at full health so I can go on to the next fight without healing packs or Prologue Healing. With Ares/OBW I can do that at least 2 fights out of 3 (maybe more).
    #2. When I use any characters but a combination of Thor/Ares/OBW I get slaughtered on defense.

    Don't change OBW because #1 makes the game much more fun to play. Instead let's change #2. If my defensive team was, for example, 2 of my 5 most powerful characters plus the required character, then I would feel free to use a much wider variety of characters on offense. I'd love to play matches with cStorm and MNMAgs, but they are lousy on defense and everyone targets them. It'd be great to use Wolverine again and I'd even bring out Hawkeye and Cap if I wasn't going to be stuck with them on defense and then relentlessly pummeled. Granted with the random defenders on my defending team might be much weaker than my offense team, but so would everyone else's.

    Just a thought...
  • OBW is a little OP at the 2* level, therefore you see her in every 2* team. At best, she is only good for a 2* transiting to 3* player. Once you get to 3*, OBW is seen as more a liability since she is so squishy. You wanna know real annoyance? Try going up against Hood.
  • nicobile wrote:
    For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

    Do you think they need to make some change to this character?

    And? Let's go and nerf all chars, which you don't like and which tinykick your tinykass? Noobs. Noobs never change. icon_lol.gif
  • laoahpeh wrote:
    OBW is a little OP at the 2* level, therefore you see her in every 2* team. At best, she is only good for a 2* transiting to 3* player. Once you get to 3*, OBW is seen as more a liability since she is so squishy. You wanna know real annoyance? Try going up against Hood.


    I don't mind hood. I think obw would be worse except she has an hp deficiency (when considered a 3***...which everyone might as well).

    Otersey misused that downvote imo, so ill upvote to counter in a sec, but her real issues are the same ones from Mooooonths ago. That is, ap stealing as a move type is very powerful and hard to balance (just like a pure stun move), her black is actually a stated to be broken move (though thats not part of the issue here realistically as we are talking def), and she is the only character that covers her color set in the 2** range. Heck, even in the 3*** there aren't many purple moves and her blue is one if the more helpful ones. Also, healing...don't discount the fact that she is the only healer besides spidey (who is about to get nerfed in the face like the kid wearing black in a Nerf commercial). Together it all makes her the most played character in the game by far. She is THE BEST 2** In the game and the only one that transitions very well between 2**-3*** (ares is okay if he is just there for yellow).

    So yea, don't nerf(besides the obligatory changing of her black...disable double dip and maybe increase the base additional damage...which actually makes her BETTER on many teams though lol) but instead wait for more 3*** to come. I doubt we see many 2**...they don't bring in the money...so I don't think you can EVER expect this to really change as the #1 reason she is in that slot is due to her being the only support character in the 2** range (and strong too)...and I don't see more 2** happening.

    That all said...I totally expect her nerfed at some point. If you look at the last few stunners and stealers you will see a trend..no direct active moves. The only 3*** with an active stun is spidey..look what is about to happen. The only decent character with an active steal is obw...so..coincidence she also is the only other healer? They'll go in to nerf the black and come out with a nerfed everything. It...just might take 4 months icon_mrgreen.gif
  • Careful what you wish for. I don't think the devs would need too much of an excuse to hit a hero who lets you play without buying lots of health packs (which is what they want) so IMO don't start threads like these to start giving them an excuse.

    OBW will be seen even more after spiderman gets nerfed IMO since she'll be a better offensive hero by some margin afterwards if you want to sustain your play. Just remember.... if she's nerfed it'll hurt you as much as the people who's OBWs you are so fed up of playing against.... don't help D3 with screwing more money out of you (for health packs) by complaining about every hero that lets you avoid using them.
  • BearVenger wrote:
    Actually, no. I play a lot of Original Black Widow, as she was easier to build up than a 3* character, and she makes my teams competitive against 3* teams whose hitpoints and damage outclass me. Playing with OBW is like extending your life bar.

    Secondly, she's the only character who both heals and steals. Without her, my 2*s and mid 3*s will get eaten up by 141s' power moves. And this game thinks highly enough of me to throw those teams at me. It's not like I just chose to only play teams tougher than me.

    Thirdly, she's quite beatable when played by the AI and quite beatable when shes on my team. She's not an instant "win" button, and I go out of my way to take on teams with OBW. In fact, playing with healers makes matches go longer, which means fewer victories per hour if you and I were going head-to-head for tournament placement. Even if I win, I'm not winning as fast as someone running pure offense.

    Fourth, she's responsible for letting me recover between rounds. If you'd like to nerf her, I'll give you my workplace's mailing address, and you can send me Android gift cards so I can purchase more healthpacks and stop annoying you with her presence.

    Fifth, in an MPQ world of nonstop offensive heroes, it's nice to have a workable support hero. Really, it's nice to just have another character who isn't another variation on pure offense/strike tiles/attack tiles. The last thing this game needs is more of the same.

    I'm sorry you don't like seeing OBW. I don't like seeing 2* or 3* Thor, but I know why people like him, and I've developed strategies to counter him.

    It sounds like your frustration is that a lot of people find success with a character you don't like to play as. Barring a bad cascade, she's not a match-killer. And if she were, there's a skip button to minimize her in your matchups. Please don't request to fix something that's not OP or broken.


    This post says it all basically. A 2* that allows the player to overthrow 141's.
    Basically your whole post describes how OP she is as you defend her.

    She is in reality the most unbalanced 2* by a long shot.
  • Whether she is OP or not, fighting her in 95% of the matches gets very repetitive and boring. She's in every single 2* team and in my current MMR range I'm seeing a lot of teams with two maxed or close to maxed 3*s and OBW. Most of the other teams I see are Spidey and I'm guessing there's a high chance that many of those will go with OBW after the Spidey nerf.

    Instead of nerfing OBW, could we get a different character or two with the stealing/healing abilities? Preferable one new 2* with healing and one new 2* with stealing. Just to add some desperately needed variety to the game.
  • Whether she is OP or not, fighting her in 95% of the matches gets very repetitive and boring. She's in every single 2* team and in my current MMR range I'm seeing a lot of teams with two maxed or close to maxed 3*s and OBW. Most of the other teams I see are Spidey and I'm guessing there's a high chance that many of those will go with OBW after the Spidey nerf.

    Instead of nerfing OBW, could we get a different character or two with the stealing/healing abilities? Preferable one new 2* with healing and one new 2* with stealing. Just to add some desperately needed variety to the game.


    + nerf her.

    Idc if people don't like nerfs. A 2* with the ability for a 48ap turn around is absurd. Her pink is broke as hell.
  • Take a character out.
    Put a character in.
    Nerf a character.
    Buff a character.

    Whatever the strongest character is in each *class is the character that you are going to see in every match.
    Of course I use obw and Thor. Think about it. Who else could I use with a level 15 character to give myself a fighting chance? Spiderman and hulk? Tinykitty that!

    Go play shield training so you can try out all the BP, hood, LT teams. Those are so much more fun!
  • HairyDaveHairyDave Posts: 1,574
    Clintman wrote:
    It is also not like there are a lot of choices in 2* land for a solid team. Its Either OBW/Tank/Req or Mags/C Storm/Req.

    And CStorm/MNMags are rubbish when the AI is in control.
  • ClintmanClintman Posts: 800 Critical Contributor
    I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

    Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

    I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.
  • OTERSEY wrote:
    nicobile wrote:
    For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

    Do you think they need to make some change to this character?

    And? Let's go and nerf all chars, which you don't like and which tinykick your tinykass? Noobs. Noobs never change. icon_lol.gif

    Dont know why you make the assumption that im a noob so easily, i could do the same and tell you that you sound like a 10 year old. But i wont, im more classy than that icon_e_wink.gif

    For your information, before this sudden change in tiers and nodes, i almost always ended top 10, winning a couple of events too.

    laoahpeh wrote:
    OBW is a little OP at the 2* level, therefore you see her in every 2* team. At best, she is only good for a 2* transiting to 3* player. Once you get to 3*, OBW is seen as more a liability since she is so squishy. You wanna know real annoyance? Try going up against Hood.


    I don't mind hood. I think obw would be worse except she has an hp deficiency (when considered a 3***...which everyone might as well).

    Otersey misused that downvote imo, so ill upvote to counter in a sec, but her real issues are the same ones from Mooooonths ago. That is, ap stealing as a move type is very powerful and hard to balance (just like a pure stun move), her black is actually a stated to be broken move (though thats not part of the issue here realistically as we are talking def), and she is the only character that covers her color set in the 2** range. Heck, even in the 3*** there aren't many purple moves and her blue is one if the more helpful ones. Also, healing...don't discount the fact that she is the only healer besides spidey (who is about to get nerfed in the face like the kid wearing black in a Nerf commercial). Together it all makes her the most played character in the game by far. She is THE BEST 2** In the game and the only one that transitions very well between 2**-3*** (ares is okay if he is just there for yellow).

    So yea, don't nerf(besides the obligatory changing of her black...disable double dip and maybe increase the base additional damage...which actually makes her BETTER on many teams though lol) but instead wait for more 3*** to come. I doubt we see many 2**...they don't bring in the money...so I don't think you can EVER expect this to really change as the #1 reason she is in that slot is due to her being the only support character in the 2** range (and strong too)...and I don't see more 2** happening.

    That all said...I totally expect her nerfed at some point. If you look at the last few stunners and stealers you will see a trend..no direct active moves. The only 3*** with an active stun is spidey..look what is about to happen. The only decent character with an active steal is obw...so..coincidence she also is the only other healer? They'll go in to nerf the black and come out with a nerfed everything. It...just might take 4 months icon_mrgreen.gif

    I know, and thats what i was talking about when i said that they are lacking in answers and their response time is far from good. The character needs a nerf, and it might come in 4 months like you say, but shamefully, many of us wont be around by that time. And what a couple of ppl are suggesting, that they NEED her, is also a fault in the game, there should not be any character that you feel is necessary in our lineup. I can play a lot, since i work from home, so i use patch and daken more times than not so i can circumvent the healing problem, thats an example. Its ok to try to beat the norm, but when the norm is too powerful, you just give in and take advantage of it.

    bonfire01 wrote:
    Careful what you wish for. I don't think the devs would need too much of an excuse to hit a hero who lets you play without buying lots of health packs (which is what they want) so IMO don't start threads like these to start giving them an excuse.

    OBW will be seen even more after spiderman gets nerfed IMO since she'll be a better offensive hero by some margin afterwards if you want to sustain your play. Just remember.... if she's nerfed it'll hurt you as much as the people who's OBWs you are so fed up of playing against.... don't help D3 with screwing more money out of you (for health packs) by complaining about every hero that lets you avoid using them.

    Well, i dont use her, practically never, and im doing just fine. And i was doing even better when i was using a full 85** squad. Talking about healing, its hard to make an ability that works well in this regard, while i dont have any type of problem with either healing power (from spidey and obw), i dont like than one character has the capability to heal and steal from you. Thats what makes bw so op, the purple. And if at the same time she heals, well, that might be gg.
  • Clintman wrote:
    I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

    Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

    I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.

    I've been at this since I was an intermediate. Literally has been months now.

    http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3459&hilit=Who+should+be+next+in+line+for+funbalancing

    Many arguments in this old thread showing what's wrong with her.
    Her blue is fine. Her black is fine. Her pink is absurd.
    It also has the problem IM40 recharge has (as mentioned in the thread) and as falcons abilities did. There are arguments that it is better at a 3/5 than at 5/5 and it's just as good at lvl 15 as it is at lvl 85.
    It's not better at 3/5 because the other 2 skills are better either. In a vacuum it still is chosen 3/5 because of the cheaper cost.

    I'm not gonnA keep rambling though. Anything any1 is gonna mentioned I'm sure has been covered twice over in the link. Lol
  • Clintman wrote:
    I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

    Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

    I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.

    I was an intermediate, and now am a phantom in between 2 and 3* that has to play against Nemek, Polarity, Psykopathic, The oddone, jozier, reckless and the sort. I understand what you say, but im sure you also think she is op. Wouldnt a little more variation be good for the game? Think it the other way. The person who is not lucky enough to get her covers, he still in the same spot than the rest, but he doesnt have the op character that makes all easier. He cant beat those teams easily, cant heal himself up, stops playing if he is not really dedicated. The character need a nerf, i think thats quite clear. And im sure a player of your calibre knows that.
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