** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

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Comments

  • Phantron wrote:
    Magneto's sort of like Spiderman, incredible on offense and not too special on defense, so I'm not too worried about maxing him out. I didn't keep him low level on purpose, but it happens to be advantageous in the current enviornment. Levels help characters who are good on defense, or do raw numbers on offense. Magneto does neither, as Magnetic Field is really an AP generator move, and he is actually pretty bad on defense due to the AI's inability to make any sense out of Magnetic Field.


    In the last 2 weeks, every time the AI has hit me with it, it's hurt real bad. It's made great matches with tile placing abilities. GSBW too
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Have played some with buffed oBW/cMagneto, yes, extra blue on Magnetic Field is extra nice.
    But as an example I had a really poor board against the hardest mission enemies, Ares, Daken and Venom, I doubt oBW would survive for long without healing herself with the invaluable blue, and Spidey at least has healing on yellow. If I would have run oBW instead, I would be matching both blue and purple with her, and she would die quite quickly, because Daken kept spamming strike tiles. As it were, Spidey matched purple and Magneto blue. Magneto got hurt the least because the board was blue-starved in the early stage. I healed thrice with Spidey (1st and 2nd time just not to die, even with very few/0 webtiles, and 3rd time to be back at full health when done), and yellow isn't nearly as valuable as blue if you don't have LT.

    AvDMFl2l.png
  • Bugpop wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Magneto's sort of like Spiderman, incredible on offense and not too special on defense, so I'm not too worried about maxing him out. I didn't keep him low level on purpose, but it happens to be advantageous in the current enviornment. Levels help characters who are good on defense, or do raw numbers on offense. Magneto does neither, as Magnetic Field is really an AP generator move, and he is actually pretty bad on defense due to the AI's inability to make any sense out of Magnetic Field.


    In the last 2 weeks, every time the AI has hit me with it, it's hurt real bad. It's made great matches with tile placing abilities. GSBW too

    I know every time when you say the AI sucks with an ability like Magnetic FIeld they'll immediately prove you wrong, but in general I still feel pretty comfortable with my chances against Magnetic Field or Deceptive Tactics.
  • locked wrote:
    Have played some with buffed oBW/cMagneto, yes, extra blue on Magnetic Field is extra nice.
    But as an example I had a really poor board against the hardest mission enemies, Ares, Daken and Venom, I doubt oBW would survive for long without healing herself with the invaluable blue, and Spidey at least has healing on yellow. If I would have run oBW instead, I would be matching both blue and purple with her, and she would die quite quickly, because Daken kept spamming strike tiles. As it were, Spidey matched purple and Magneto blue. Magneto got hurt the least because the board was blue-starved in the early stage. I healed thrice with Spidey (1st and 2nd time just not to die, even with very few/0 webtiles, and 3rd time to be back at full health when done), and yellow isn't nearly as valuable as blue if you don't have LT.

    AvDMFl2l.png

    It's always difficult to tell whether more offense could've prevented the need for defense (like Spiderman) since every game is different, but so far I haven't had much problem just going all offense up until the level 200 range and that's only if they have Daken. When the enemies are 200+, I'm not sure if it's better to stick to defense instead of offense. Of course then there's also the sanity check, as in even if defense works, it might be better for your sanity to not play a 30 minute game. I have plenty of games in the past where my team is Spiderman/Magneto/Patch, and Patch died for whatever reason and it took a very long time to very slowly win the game, and it's only getting worse now that enemies can go beyond 230.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Yes that fight took longer than I hoped (started the battle 5 minutes before the end of the refresh hoping I gave myself enough time, but in reality it took about 10 minutes. Not 20 thankfully. Yes, oBW favours offense more than Spidey, that's why when the enemies aren't as ridiculous as high level Ares/Daken I rather go with oBW than Spidey/cMags, or don't take oBW at all (Hood/MMN/cStorm).
  • KaioShinDEKaioShinDE Posts: 265 Mover and Shaker
    Phantron wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Magneto's sort of like Spiderman, incredible on offense and not too special on defense, so I'm not too worried about maxing him out. I didn't keep him low level on purpose, but it happens to be advantageous in the current enviornment. Levels help characters who are good on defense, or do raw numbers on offense. Magneto does neither, as Magnetic Field is really an AP generator move, and he is actually pretty bad on defense due to the AI's inability to make any sense out of Magnetic Field.


    In the last 2 weeks, every time the AI has hit me with it, it's hurt real bad. It's made great matches with tile placing abilities. GSBW too

    I know every time when you say the AI sucks with an ability like Magnetic FIeld they'll immediately prove you wrong, but in general I still feel pretty comfortable with my chances against Magnetic Field or Deceptive Tactics.

    I'd really like some of the magical wonderland stuff that people who say things like "Mag's blue is an AP generator" or "Get 5 blue with Mags and you won" must be taking. After I made two blue matches, usually there is one or none left to make. There are one or two 2 blues together I could complete with Magnetic Field for a whooping net gain of 1 blue AP. Then the board is pretty much empty of blue. By the time it's filled with it again I probably needed the Magnetic Field elsewhere, to overwrite strike tiles and such and I start over from scratch.

    Sure, matches where you get enough blue to cast it in an endless loop can happen. But they are just as rare as matches where you get a massive cascade in turn 1 that allows you to fire of Best There Is in turn 3. But if you read the forums, it sounds like that's everyday Magneto performance. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • locked wrote:
    No srsly, **** a 3* because of a 2*? I understand that right now Espionage + Magnetic Field works wonders, but long term gimping Magneto?

    But what is the gimping really? That visuals show not '141'? The last few levels cost extreme ISO and really provide nothing that would worth -- it is for few character rosters. Whoever levels multiple characters would not use ISO that way in any case. As the same 10-20-30K ISO works much better elsewhere.

    Just create a compare table for 131 and 141 Mags: difference will be like 3 pts of tile dmg, 300 of 5800 HP and and small points in the purple.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    ^ Haha I would know nothing about that because my highest leveled character is 115. Maybe you are right after all. But as it stands you don't often run both oBW and cMags on the same team. I'd say it's strictly PvE?
  • KaioShinDE wrote:
    I'd really like some of the magical wonderland stuff that people who say things like "Mag's blue is an AP generator" or "Get 5 blue with Mags and you won" must be taking.

    That is surely inaccurate, you need Patch, collect 9G, 3R, 6U -- then you won 90% of the time shortly, and in most of remainder cases with extra effort.
    KaioShinDE wrote:
    After I made two blue matches, usually there is one or none left to make. There are one or two 2 blues together I could complete with Magnetic Field for a whooping net gain of 1 blue AP. Then the board is pretty much empty of blue. By the time it's filled with it again I probably needed the Magnetic Field elsewhere, to overwrite strike tiles and such and I start over from scratch.

    Yes, blue depletes itself eventually but that's why you have the red... With the patch swords every activation or match is over 600 dmg and if you need pass the turn Patch tanks.

    You can win with just Mags -- happened to me several times losing the rest of the team but it takes way too much effort. If you have enough blue for 2 fields you can really go for ages.

    KaioShinDE wrote:
    Sure, matches where you get enough blue to cast it in an endless loop can happen. But they are just as rare as matches where you get a massive cascade in turn 1 that allows you to fire of Best There Is in turn 3. But if you read the forums, it sounds like that's everyday Magneto performance.

    And it is too.
  • locked wrote:
    ^ Haha I would know nothing about that because my highest leveled character is 115. Maybe you are right after all. But as it stands you don't often run both oBW and cMags on the same team. I'd say it's strictly PvE?

    Yes, I said that early, it's kinda special combo. But that is the good thing about those characters, both OBW and Mags is a good fit for almost any team and do relevant help. icon_e_smile.gif
  • Without accounting for cascades (mostly because it's impossible to predict how many APs you get from those), assuming a crit tile is immediately matched 50% of the time, Magnetic Field's AP generation would be:

    Match 4 - +3 AP (-1 blue)
    Match 5 not line - +1 AP (no loss of blue)
    Match 5 line - +4 AP

    While you have no idea what the other APs you're getting, get enough of them and you'll be able to do something with them. It's the same way as how you generally have no idea what AP you'd expect The Hood to steal but given enough turns he's going to steal something useful. Of course we're completely ignoring cascades here, which also generates a lot of APs too.

    That said with the enemy starting to hit the level 300 range, you get these situations where you MF for 10K damage and Ragnarok says 'That's all you got? I still have another 10K HP!" and then delivers a devastating counterattack.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Lol we are somehow discussing Mags in an oBW thread.
    Erm. They combo well. I wiped on one in a LR just now because they got cascades on purple and oBW stole my purple (curse you Magneto for having a weak purple!), and instead of Reconning me (which I would have probably lived down) they translocated my butt. Fun times icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • I just noticed this, and since an AI behavior change for OBW was already put in once, seems like this should be fixed.

    The AI OBW can use Espionage even if I have none of that color AP, for the extra damage. Player OBW can not and wording of the power supports that's how it's supposed to work, right?
  • Lerysh wrote:
    I just noticed this, and since an AI behavior change for OBW was already put in once, seems like this should be fixed.

    The AI OBW can use Espionage even if I have none of that color AP, for the extra damage. Player OBW can not and wording of the power supports that's how it's supposed to work, right?

    I think this is getting updated with R52, which I don't think is up yet.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    Actually, player OBW gets extra damage regardless of whether or not the opponent has AI of that color to steal. The power has never behaved exactly as written. The advertised fix is to prevent the power from triggering for the AI when OBW doesn't have the strongest damage in that color.
  • I don't believe player OBW does get extra damage when opponent has no AP of the color, or if she does it doesn't pop up as Espionage power use, like it does with the AI.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    I don't believe player OBW does get extra damage when opponent has no AP of the color, or if she does it doesn't pop up as Espionage power use, like it does with the AI.
    She 100% does. Use it as the first match of the game and you will get it.
  • So currently I'm between 2* and 3* and needless to say OBW is a big part of my team most of the time. Problem is, I have a lot of trouble getting covers for her, so she's not at 85.

    Currently she's sitting at 3/5/3 with a purple cover that could be used, so now I'm torn between leveling her to 77 with it or keeping purple at 8 AP instead of 10. I'm wondering if the extra lvl will do much, because the cheaper recon helps a lot.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    sup123 wrote:
    So currently I'm between 2* and 3* and needless to say OBW is a big part of my team most of the time. Problem is, I have a lot of trouble getting covers for her, so she's not at 85.

    Currently she's sitting at 3/5/3 with a purple cover that could be used, so now I'm torn between leveling her to 77 with it or keeping purple at 8 AP instead of 10. I'm wondering if the extra lvl will do much, because the cheaper recon helps a lot.

    I would keep her at 77: 8AP purple is worth 8 levels.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Ditto, 8 AP recon is the best PvP-wise. People build their oBWs 3/5/5 just to have cheaper Recon. You only maybe want to steal purple from cMagneto, but he doesn't want purple himself, so that takes some weight off. And as I said many times, enemy oBW's purple will be stolen through Espionage easily enough.
This discussion has been closed.