** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

nicobile wrote:

Dont know why you make the assumption that im a noob so easily, i could do the same and tell you that you sound like a 10 year old. But i wont, im more classy than that

For your information, before this sudden change in tiers and nodes, i almost always ended top 10, winning a couple of events too.

Noob is not Top 10, noob this is what you do and say. So, try again, kid. Or Die Tryin'.

Unknown

OTERSEY wrote:

nicobile wrote:

Dont know why you make the assumption that im a noob so easily, i could do the same and tell you that you sound like a 10 year old. But i wont, im more classy than that

For your information, before this sudden change in tiers and nodes, i almost always ended top 10, winning a couple of events too.

Noob is not Top 10, noob this is what you do and say. So, try again, kid. Or Die Tryin'.

Ok so of that's your definition of a noob then define this.

A random person who is incapable of speaking in complete sentences and goes through down voting the more productive posts like a child just because they show disagreement with one's own opinions.

I define it as Otersey. Or die tryin'. Oh yeah. We gotta a gangsta up in here folks.

Unknown

nicobile wrote:

For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

Do you think they need to make some change to this character?

No. We think the game needs to improve its existing characters and add more characters that have colors and abilities similar to OBW. Her dominance is simply due to most of the characters are **** or would use the same subset of colors in the team.

Also whoever grows out of the ** camp knows OBW gets left behind and is pretty welcome as opponent.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

nicobile wrote:

For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

Do you think they need to make some change to this character?

No. We think the game needs to improve its existing characters and add more characters that have colors and abilities similar to OBW. Her dominance is simply due to most of the characters are **** or would use the same subset of colors in the team.

Also whoever grows out of the ** camp knows OBW gets left behind and is pretty welcome as opponent.

For the most part she's easy to kill. I still find her more annoying than any other 2* and as a utility character I find her more annoying than spidey or hood.

Most popular 3* have high cost abilities. All the computer has to do is get off a single recon and it typically starts a perpetuating chain of steals and heals. She's not like a ragnarok where she ruins every single match. Her low health keeps her somewhat in check. All I am saying, as I always have, is that she needs minor tweaks. Her pink at top level should at best be steals 2 of 3 colors and 3 of 3 colors. It needs to be done in a way that 5/5 is obviously better than 3/5.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Ok so of that's your definition of a noob then define this.

A random person who is incapable of speaking in complete sentences and goes through down voting the more productive posts like a child just because they show disagreement with one's own opinions.

I define it as Otersey.

OTERSEY, please. And yes, if you so care about your forum karma and red points from random person (who said that? ) what immediately wrote about this, it's very seriously and solidly, lol. But wait! You from X-men alliance. That explains everything...

As for my English, it's not my native language and I can't describe what I think in full amount. However, I wrote my opinion in one of previous same threads. Do it again I don't have any wish. Sit days on forums and plow the sand filling his own worth is not what I wanted to do in my life.

If you all here are elite players what imagine yourself, you have to win in any situation, and not whining at each other and ask nerf everything that tinykicks your tinykass. You are not alone play in this game. Live with it.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

nicobile wrote:

For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

Do you think they need to make some change to this character?

No. We think the game needs to improve its existing characters and add more characters that have colors and abilities similar to OBW. Her dominance is simply due to most of the characters are **** or would use the same subset of colors in the team.

Also whoever grows out of the ** camp knows OBW gets left behind and is pretty welcome as opponent.

For the most part she's easy to kill. I still find her more annoying than any other 2* and as a utility character I find her more annoying than spidey or hood.

Most popular 3* have high cost abilities. All the computer has to do is get off a single recon and it typically starts a perpetuating chain of steals and heals. She's not like a ragnarok where she ruins every single match. Her low health keeps her somewhat in check. All I am saying, as I always have, is that she needs minor tweaks. Her pink at top level should at best be steals 2 of 3 colors and 3 of 3 colors. It needs to be done in a way that 5/5 is obviously better than 3/5.

Agreed. I have her at 3/5 as well simply for speed. Moves that require more ap at higher levels are ridiculous in my eyes. Risk=reward . simple

Unknown

OTERSEY wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Ok so of that's your definition of a noob then define this.

A random person who is incapable of speaking in complete sentences and goes through down voting the more productive posts like a child just because they show disagreement with one's own opinions.

I define it as Otersey.

OTERSEY, please. And yes, if you so care about your forum karma and red points from random person (who said that? ) what immediately wrote about this, it's very seriously and solidly, lol. But wait! You from X-men alliance. That explains everything...

As for my English, it's not my native language and I can't describe what I think in full amount. However, I wrote my opinion in one of previous same threads. Do it again I don't have any wish. Sit days on forums and plow the sand filling his own worth is not what I wanted to do in my life.

If you all here are elite players what imagine yourself, you have to win in any situation, and not whining at each other and ask nerf everything that tinykicks your tinykass. You are not alone play in this game. Live with it.

Ok English not being 1st language explains a little bit. This was my point though. You'll get a lot farther with everyone putting in constructive criticism and adding productive conversation than you will by throwing the word noob around 10 times and down voting everyone.

Unknown

colebavery21 wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

nicobile wrote:

For a long time now,90% of the matches i can pick have Original Black Widow, its annoying, its not fun to play against, and you end up forced to do so almost all the time.

Do you think they need to make some change to this character?

No. We think the game needs to improve its existing characters and add more characters that have colors and abilities similar to OBW. Her dominance is simply due to most of the characters are **** or would use the same subset of colors in the team.

Also whoever grows out of the ** camp knows OBW gets left behind and is pretty welcome as opponent.

For the most part she's easy to kill. I still find her more annoying than any other 2* and as a utility character I find her more annoying than spidey or hood.

Most popular 3* have high cost abilities. All the computer has to do is get off a single recon and it typically starts a perpetuating chain of steals and heals. She's not like a ragnarok where she ruins every single match. Her low health keeps her somewhat in check. All I am saying, as I always have, is that she needs minor tweaks. Her pink at top level should at best be steals 2 of 3 colors and 3 of 3 colors. It needs to be done in a way that 5/5 is obviously better than 3/5.

Agreed. I have her at 3/5 as well simply for speed. Moves that require more ap at higher levels are ridiculous in my eyes. Risk=reward . simple

I can keep mine at lvl 20 or 30 or whatever she is on and just hide her behind spidey. Then she just sits back unharmed behind spideys shields and steals everything the enemy wishes they had. It can make things super easy no matter her level. That's more effective in Pve than pvp but you get the point. She's a really fun character and she doesn't need destroyed. I just see her pink as having broken mechanics the same as spideys did. It needs to do the same thing in a different way.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

I can keep mine at lvl 20 or 30 or whatever she is on and just hide her behind spidey. Then she just sits back unharmed behind spideys shields and steals everything the enemy wishes they had. It can make things super easy no matter her level. That's more effective in Pve than pvp but you get the point. She's a really fun character and she doesn't need destroyed. I just see her pink as having broken mechanics the same as spideys did. It needs to do the same thing in a different way.

Just hopefully not in another countdown tile type of way

Clintman

nicobile wrote:

Clintman wrote:

I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.

I was an intermediate, and now am a phantom in between 2 and 3* that has to play against Nemek, Polarity, Psykopathic, The oddone, jozier, reckless and the sort. I understand what you say, but im sure you also think she is op. Wouldnt a little more variation be good for the game? Think it the other way. The person who is not lucky enough to get her covers, he still in the same spot than the rest, but he doesnt have the op character that makes all easier. He cant beat those teams easily, cant heal himself up, stops playing if he is not really dedicated. The character need a nerf, i think thats quite clear. And im sure a player of your calibre knows that.

I think she is fine, she is versatile and fun. Nerfing her would serve no beneficial purpose and would only take away another tool. The fact that I do not use her at my level of play tells me that she serves a solid purpose but does not eclipse 3*. So what if she is OP compared to other 2*?

It seems like every time people get frustrated they want to nerf balance everyone else's characters because they don't like fighting them. "Rock is OP, nerf him please, paper is fine -scissors"

Also, with the random 1 and 2* as rewards from matches, more people get access to her! and god forbid people without a 3* roster have a chance.

Unknown

Clintman wrote:

nicobile wrote:

Clintman wrote:

I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.

I was an intermediate, and now am a phantom in between 2 and 3* that has to play against Nemek, Polarity, Psykopathic, The oddone, jozier, reckless and the sort. I understand what you say, but im sure you also think she is op. Wouldnt a little more variation be good for the game? Think it the other way. The person who is not lucky enough to get her covers, he still in the same spot than the rest, but he doesnt have the op character that makes all easier. He cant beat those teams easily, cant heal himself up, stops playing if he is not really dedicated. The character need a nerf, i think thats quite clear. And im sure a player of your calibre knows that.

I think she is fine, she is versatile and fun. Nerfing her would serve no beneficial purpose and would only take away another tool. The fact that I do not use her at my level of play tells me that she serves a solid purpose but does not eclipse 3*. So what if she is OP compared to other 2*?

It seems like every time people get frustrated they want to nerf balance everyone else's characters because they don't like fighting them. "Rock is OP, nerf him please, paper is fine -scissors"

Also, with the random 1 and 2* as rewards from matches, more people get access to her! and god forbid people without a 3* roster have a chance.

I get what you are saying even though I did say I started arguing this in my 2* transition phase. Kind off topic here but why does she get to be better than 4* IW. Lol

Unknown

OBW is the sole reason this game is still casually playable. Nerfing her would mean making the game unplayable and near impossible to progress, especially for most intermediate players, without spending a ridiculous amount on health packs. I've bought health packs exactly twice at the end of pve's when my luck turned sour, but those are the only times I've bought health packs. If they ever become a requirement, I think a lot of people would just quit. And I've spent some money on this game, so I don't think it's in anyone's interest to nerf the one useful healer we have left. Never did get a yellow spiderboy cover, so not too burnt about that nerf, but I imagine most people who did, and put in the month+ to level him are pretty jaded about that. TBH, the times I've played him, he's pretty much a pushover as long as you deny him blue, so the nerf does kind of feel intended just to encourage people to spend more on health packs.

I've felt this whole push to get people to spend on health packs was a bad idea from the get-go, but we've been able to get around that somewhat with healers. If they completely nerf away healers, they will get rid of all their "freeloaders" (F2P players), but they'll also get rid of most of their paying customers as well (except of course for the hardcores / semi-pro/ pro gamers for whom money (at least in-game) is no object - which is fine. People can spend their money however they want, but I'm just drawing a distinction between different spending habits based on player type).

Clintman

Psykopathic wrote:

Clintman wrote:

nicobile wrote:

Clintman wrote:

I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.

I was an intermediate, and now am a phantom in between 2 and 3* that has to play against Nemek, Polarity, Psykopathic, The oddone, jozier, reckless and the sort. I understand what you say, but im sure you also think she is op. Wouldnt a little more variation be good for the game? Think it the other way. The person who is not lucky enough to get her covers, he still in the same spot than the rest, but he doesnt have the op character that makes all easier. He cant beat those teams easily, cant heal himself up, stops playing if he is not really dedicated. The character need a nerf, i think thats quite clear. And im sure a player of your calibre knows that.

I think she is fine, she is versatile and fun. Nerfing her would serve no beneficial purpose and would only take away another tool. The fact that I do not use her at my level of play tells me that she serves a solid purpose but does not eclipse 3*. So what if she is OP compared to other 2*?

It seems like every time people get frustrated they want to nerf balance everyone else's characters because they don't like fighting them. "Rock is OP, nerf him please, paper is fine -scissors"

Also, with the random 1 and 2* as rewards from matches, more people get access to her! and god forbid people without a 3* roster have a chance.

I get what you are saying even though I did say I started arguing this in my 2* transition phase. Kind off topic here but why does she get to be better than 4* IW. Lol

You know brotherman, I hear you and I see the logic behind the balance discussions. I just worry for the intermediate population, they are our most precious commodity. They are also my favorite source of food, I find a OBW/Thor/x team particularly tasty and I don't want them to migrate away because they have no chance.

The sharding and the changes to abysmal drop rates for 3* is leaving these people in the intermediate state too long. I just find myself against doing anything more to hurt our largest population.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Clintman wrote:

nicobile wrote:

Clintman wrote:

I think the intermediates have a hard enough time as it is, so back up for a minute and stop trying to nerf everyone that makes things a little unpredictable. OBW is fun as hell to play, she gives you options to compete in a game that has no difficulty settings. She is a must have at the 2* and she is sometimes addition at the 3* level. When you have a deep 3* roster you put her away because there are better options.

Good god its not like it should surprise anyone that you see a lot of her, you see a lot of Thor and wolverine and classic storm too. Now that people have discovered Marvel Now Magneto with Classic Storm you are seeing him suddenly pop up a lot in teams. You don't have the deep variety of characters at the two star level that you see at the 3*.

I think nerfing her would drive away people who are struggling as it is with the current balance changes, especially with the current sharding that has some strange algorithm that thinks people with 2* should be paired up with the max level 3* crews for PVP.

I was an intermediate, and now am a phantom in between 2 and 3* that has to play against Nemek, Polarity, Psykopathic, The oddone, jozier, reckless and the sort. I understand what you say, but im sure you also think she is op. Wouldnt a little more variation be good for the game? Think it the other way. The person who is not lucky enough to get her covers, he still in the same spot than the rest, but he doesnt have the op character that makes all easier. He cant beat those teams easily, cant heal himself up, stops playing if he is not really dedicated. The character need a nerf, i think thats quite clear. And im sure a player of your calibre knows that.

I think she is fine, she is versatile and fun. Nerfing her would serve no beneficial purpose and would only take away another tool. The fact that I do not use her at my level of play tells me that she serves a solid purpose but does not eclipse 3*. So what if she is OP compared to other 2*?

It seems like every time people get frustrated they want to nerf balance everyone else's characters because they don't like fighting them. "Rock is OP, nerf him please, paper is fine -scissors"

Also, with the random 1 and 2* as rewards from matches, more people get access to her! and god forbid people without a 3* roster have a chance.

I get what you are saying even though I did say I started arguing this in my 2* transition phase. Kind off topic here but why does she get to be better than 4* IW. Lol

Well, everyone* is better than 4* IW. You should see this as an opportunity to Buff IW, not nerf OBW.

We have here two characters in question. One fun to play as, the other not so fun. So they should tone down the fun one to level the field, or bring the bad one up...

*except Bagman.

Clintman

theHappyDance wrote:

OBW is the sole reason this game is still casually playable. Nerfing her would mean making the game unplayable and near impossible to progress, especially for most intermediate players, without spending a ridiculous amount on health packs. I've bought health packs exactly twice at the end of pve's when my luck turned sour, but those are the only times I've bought health packs. If they ever become a requirement, I think a lot of people would just quit. And I've spent some money on this game, so I don't think it's in anyone's interest to nerf the one useful healer we have left. Never did get a yellow spiderboy cover, so not too burnt about that nerf, but I imagine most people who did, and put in the month+ to level him are pretty jaded about that. TBH, the times I've played him, he's pretty much a pushover as long as you deny him blue, so the nerf does kind of feel intended just to encourage people to spend more on health packs.

I've felt this whole push to get people to spend on health packs was a bad idea from the get-go, but we've been able to get around that somewhat with healers. If they completely nerf away healers, they will get rid of all their "freeloaders" (F2P players), but they'll also get rid of most of their paying customers as well (except of course for the hardcores / semi-pro/ pro gamers for whom money (at least in-game) is no object - which is fine. People can spend their money however they want, but I'm just drawing a distinction between different spending habits based on player type).

It's easy to demonize D3 over Nerfs, but the community always leads the charge in removing things that give them advantage.... Sort of like asking for tax hikes because the prices are too reasonable.

Unknown

Clintman wrote:

theHappyDance wrote:

OBW is the sole reason this game is still casually playable. Nerfing her would mean making the game unplayable and near impossible to progress, especially for most intermediate players, without spending a ridiculous amount on health packs. I've bought health packs exactly twice at the end of pve's when my luck turned sour, but those are the only times I've bought health packs. If they ever become a requirement, I think a lot of people would just quit. And I've spent some money on this game, so I don't think it's in anyone's interest to nerf the one useful healer we have left. Never did get a yellow spiderboy cover, so not too burnt about that nerf, but I imagine most people who did, and put in the month+ to level him are pretty jaded about that. TBH, the times I've played him, he's pretty much a pushover as long as you deny him blue, so the nerf does kind of feel intended just to encourage people to spend more on health packs.

I've felt this whole push to get people to spend on health packs was a bad idea from the get-go, but we've been able to get around that somewhat with healers. If they completely nerf away healers, they will get rid of all their "freeloaders" (F2P players), but they'll also get rid of most of their paying customers as well (except of course for the hardcores / semi-pro/ pro gamers for whom money (at least in-game) is no object - which is fine. People can spend their money however they want, but I'm just drawing a distinction between different spending habits based on player type).

It's easy to demonize D3 over Nerfs, but the community always leads the charge in removing things that give them advantage.... Sort of like asking for tax hikes because the prices are too reasonable.

Exactly, when what we should be asking for them is to stop charging for health packs to begin with, or to just change them to costing 200 iso for a 5-pack, instead of 200 hp. If they only cost iso, and a modest amount, I think people would be a bit less inclined to be reliant on OBW, and more inclined to vary up their characters to keep things more interesting.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

why does she get to be better than 4* IW. Lol

Cuz she a ** and get her covers and leveled her is much easy, not? If IW will ** too, she will in every team is same way. Roster of ** is very limit. Peoples just play with what they have.

When I was in ** land I played with her and Wolverine, cuz tourney rewards contained only their covers and I didn't have enough covers for other characters.

Rafaelmsb wrote:

Well, everyone* is better than 4* IW. You should see this as an opportunity to Buff IW, not nerf OBW.

Full leveled 3/5/5 IW is great character and no need any buff. I'd glad to see her in my core team, but in the near future it's impossible.

Unknown

OTERSEY wrote:

Rafaelmsb wrote:

Well, everyone* is better than 4* IW. You should see this as an opportunity to Buff IW, not nerf OBW.

Full leveled 3/5/5 IW is great character and no need any buff. I'd glad to see her in my core team, but in the near future it's impossible.

Good to hear that she's actually a good character fully leveled. Never got the chance to use one at 230 (not even seeing me using one in the future also).

But my point remains the same. They should make characters fun to play, like OBW, and not the other way around.

Unknown

theHappyDance wrote:

OBW is the sole reason this game is still casually playable. Nerfing her would mean making the game unplayable and near impossible to progress, especially for most intermediate players, without spending a ridiculous amount on health packs. I've bought health packs exactly twice at the end of pve's when my luck turned sour, but those are the only times I've bought health packs. If they ever become a requirement, I think a lot of people would just quit. And I've spent some money on this game, so I don't think it's in anyone's interest to nerf the one useful healer we have left. Never did get a yellow spiderboy cover, so not too burnt about that nerf, but I imagine most people who did, and put in the month+ to level him are pretty jaded about that. TBH, the times I've played him, he's pretty much a pushover as long as you deny him blue, so the nerf does kind of feel intended just to encourage people to spend more on health packs.

I've felt this whole push to get people to spend on health packs was a bad idea from the get-go, but we've been able to get around that somewhat with healers. If they completely nerf away healers, they will get rid of all their "freeloaders" (F2P players), but they'll also get rid of most of their paying customers as well (except of course for the hardcores / semi-pro/ pro gamers for whom money (at least in-game) is no object - which is fine. People can spend their money however they want, but I'm just drawing a distinction between different spending habits based on player type).

Note that I did say her healing should be untouched. Just a slight rebalance of her pink is what I see as needed. She could still heal just the same.

Unknown

I fool around with an alternate account now that random cover pulls are a possibility in PVP. The Venom heal trick is gone. HP payouts are sparse. I have to spend hundreds of ISO skipping retaliations against opponents who I cannot possibly beat with a level 22 IM35.

OBW is dangling just out of reach. Once I have her, the entire game will change. It sucks that one single character has this effect on the game, but that is where we are right now. There is just no way to effectively transition to 3* or even max 2* without her available in her current form. If the devs are going to change her then they need to change the entire early-game experience first.

TLDR: Let's stay classy and keep our noses out of OBW's lady business.