** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Exce1sior

I had this happen twice during the same Fatal Attraction match.

Was playing a match with my Ares against OBW. (My OBW was already down from an Admantium Slash.) I executed a Sunder against Wolvie. Opponents next move, OBW hits me with her Anti-Gravity Device. It both added time to my Sunder countdown and gave her health!

Unknown

Exce1sior wrote:

I had this happen twice during the same Fatal Attraction match.

Was playing a match with my Ares against OBW. (My OBW was already down from an Admantium Slash.) I executed a Sunder against Wolvie. Opponents next move, OBW hits me with her Anti-Gravity Device. It both added time to my Sunder countdown and gave her health!

Both you and the Opponent were running OBW, or just the Opp?

Exce1sior

aaronschmiz wrote:

Both you and the Opponent were running OBW, or just the Opp?

Both, but mine was down.

Unknown

Exce1sior wrote:

aaronschmiz wrote:

Both you and the Opponent were running OBW, or just the Opp?

Both, but mine was down.

So as long as the Opp's OBW was still alive, she could still fire.

Unknown

Anti-Gravity Device - Blue 11 AP Stolen Stark tech increases enemy countdowns by 2. If there are none, heals all allies of 100 damage. Level Upgrades

Level 2: Add 3 to timers. Level 3: Costs 2 AP less. Level 4: Adds 4 to timers.

Level 5: 50% heal with enemy countdown timers present. (Dev note: This means at Level 5 AGD and base level character, she would heal for 50 with Countdown tiles, plus 50 more if none are present)

You can view her full specs here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5676

Exce1sior

Yes, but she should only add to my countdown if I have one on the board, not add to my countdown and get health.

Unknown

That is what Level 5 Anti-Gravity Device ability does. It will add to your countdown timer and give them health. It is not a bug.

Exce1sior

Never seen it happen before, and it's not explained on the specs page or in-game on her info page.

Spoit

locked wrote:

I'm not pissed off by your little comments, I'm pissed off that you seem not to care about other players (not me - I barely use oBW myself these days, although she's definitely more fun to play than Rags or IM 40).
Yes, he should get oBW. Why so opposed? 1* and 2* covers drop like rain, I'm sure that I could have got at least a half-built oBW from the recent drops. I'm not saying he MUST or he can die trying, as oBW is killable with Ares or Wolverine/Daken quite easily, but she's the best 2* and covers blue/purple/black so it seems silly not to get her.

I can't recall the last time I saw a rag or IM40 outside of their tournaments

HailMary

nicobile wrote:

Im not saying is not beatable, but is not fun to play against her. The problem one can found when playing against her is a lucky early cascade that leads to her using her violet skill, which cripples you enormously and makes her teammates use their skills a lot faster. But again, the problem for me is that is not fun, i dont enjoy playing against her. While i dont enjoy playing against Thor either, he doesnt mess with your plans so much, you can make a plan and, while you may be hit with almost all his abilities, you dont feel cheated, he hits for exactly what you already know he damage. With obw, she is robbing crystals all the time, messing your calculations and pumping her teammates. One lucky cascade and you are down 20 crystals, and the reverse for the other team.

Then factor OBW into your calculations. If you're already tracking enemy AP, doing damage arithmetic, and playing against OBW all the time, why in the world would you not track enemy AP for OBW's Recon? I know I track enemy purple whenever I play against OBW, and in situations where she gets enough purple for Recon, I'll sometimes either prematurely use my abilities to deny her a good steal, or weaken her steal by matching a useless color (e.g. black, purple) instead of a valuable one (e.g. green, red).

nicobile wrote:

She snowballs to hard, if she starts well, even the stupid AI can tinykitty you. (which is fine, to lose against AI). Its not the only character that can do this, Hulk, storm, Magneto of the top of my mind, but is the one more common.

Ares can snowball pretty brutally with a lucky cascade, and his snowballs, unlike OBW's, can kill you outright.

I have no problem playing against OBW. I avoid Ares. As a player who only had a 1/2/1 OBW for 90% of my 2*-3* transition, I was more afraid of Ares than OBW, though more afraid of OBW than Thor or AWolv. AWolv and CStorm are decent non-OBW counters to OBW, the former due to a cheap green that puts up strike tiles, and the latter due to making use of the blue you're trying to deny OBW.

Unknown

Define grinding. I get between 116-1360 per an event (avg might be around 1260?) Avg about 32-34 probably per a mat h (I usually only ha e to play 2- sub 30 matches per an event). Which means we are talking around 34-43 (34-48 assuming a few hits, I usually do.t het many) matches... I usually do 2 separate "bursts" of points and 0-2 shield hops to achieve said scores.

So, that means 2 groups of around 15-20 matchs plus 2-4 between shield hops. That's about 4-13 minutes of playtime per a shield hop and an hour or less per a stretch of playtime. Sure, I don't know if 2 hrs 20 minutes of playing over the course of 2 1/2 days is "casual" ....but it also ends up being about an hour a day...which is ajrdly hardcore for PvP imo.


Wait...why were ppl talking about grinding? Lol...

Nemek

soenottelling wrote:

Define grinding. I get between 116-1360 per an event (avg might be around 1260?) Avg about 32-34 probably per a mat h (I usually only ha e to play 2- sub 30 matches per an event). Which means we are talking around 34-43 (34-48 assuming a few hits, I usually do.t het many) matches... I usually do 2 separate "bursts" of points and 0-2 shield hops to achieve said scores.

So, that means 2 groups of around 15-20 matchs plus 2-4 between shield hops. That's about 4-13 minutes of playtime per a shield hop and an hour or less per a stretch of playtime. Sure, I don't know if 2 hrs 20 minutes of playing over the course of 2 1/2 days is "casual" ....but it also ends up being about an hour a day...which is ajrdly hardcore for PvP imo.


Wait...why were ppl talking about grinding? Lol...

This response seems a little bit out of place in this thread...? Granted, I only skimmed the thread for the most part....

Having said that, your time estimates are pretty close to my playtime, too. I've actually been budgeting my time for a really long time now to make sure burn out doesn't set in quickly. I budget 2 hours per PvP, usually around an hour and half to get to 1100ish, and then 30 minutes for smart queueing and 2 shield hops in the last 6 hours.

Art Flash

Personally I feel if they just added more healing oriented characters to the game people might not mind OBW as much. I know for me it's not her abilities that annoy me in of themselves, its seeing her in almost every single fight I come across (unless its a 130lvl+ team or the occasional Magneto/C-Storm match).If you play against the same character enough times you're bound to get hit by an AI cascade that triggers an aggressive recon death spiral as well.

Mrazy

Art Flash wrote:

Personally I feel if they just added more healing oriented characters to the game people might not mind OBW as much. I know for me it's not her abilities that annoy me in of themselves, its seeing her in almost every single fight I come across (unless its a 130lvl+ team or the occasional Magneto/C-Storm match).If you play against the same character enough times you're bound to get hit by an AI cascade that triggers an aggressive recon death spiral as well.

I very much doubt more healing types are going to be added because just by having 2 healer type of hero they are not selling nowhere near enough health packs, and yea since widow is being used so much people itself it putting her on the balance hammer just as they did with spider man, regardless of the explanation they have to overuse them.

People might use her less if healing our heroes was cheaper, maybe besides health packs add the ability to use coins or ISO to heal, kind of like using iso when we are leveling as long healing is based on health packs which are not cheap to get we are going to keep seeing widows on every fight node on pvp, personally i have no problem beating a widow with moonstone/ares in the daken pvp. But she is on every node tho, oddly enough all widow users hardly bother on retaliate.

over_clocked

Pysko, okay, we have a 8 AP move that 'possibly' creates a 30 AP turnaround (never more - lvl 3 Recon doesn't steal purple). That's pretty powerful, but that's a 3k health character we're talking about.
The most powerful cascading character in the game right now, reine supreme of Jungle and Desert? mStorm, who has 1620 health. Until we get a lazyStorm or something.
The most dangerous defensive character in the game (Hood due to his passive) isn't far ahead as he only has 4,3k health.
People brag about one-shotting all these characters (moreso Storm and oBW than Hood, but Hood is greatly weakened with lazyDaken's ariival as well) all the time.
People have discussed the best ways to counter Recon numerous times.
And there are numerous ways: deny purple and blue actively (better have a use for them, then, so bringing your own oBW is a logical choice). Let her have all the purple while you collect green for Onslaughting her or similar. Kill her with match damage and strike tiles. Etc, etc.
If Daredevil's jazz hands move would be the staple of AP stealing abilities in this game, I wouldn't want to live on this planet anymore.
The point is, stop calling a move broken if you still haven't learnt how to deal with Recon. 2*s can do it, 3*s can do it, but you still call it broken? More power to people like you, maybe you manage to suck all the fun from the game in the long run and all we're left with is lazyDaken and lazyThor. I wish you had left already if demanding nerfs to playable characters is the only thing you're capable of doing now.

DD-The-Mighty

locked wrote:

Pysko, okay, we have a 8 AP move that 'possibly' creates a 30 AP turnaround (never more - lvl 3 Recon doesn't steal purple). That's pretty powerful, but that's a 3k health character we're talking about.
The most powerful cascading character in the game right now, reine supreme of Jungle and Desert? mStorm, who has 1620 health. Until we get a lazyStorm or something.
The most dangerous defensive character in the game (Hood due to his passive) isn't far ahead as he only has 4,3k health.
People brag about one-shotting all these characters (moreso Storm and oBW than Hood, but Hood is greatly weakened with lazyDaken's ariival as well) all the time.
People have discussed the best ways to counter Recon numerous times.
And there are numerous ways: deny purple and blue actively (better have a use for them, then, so bringing your own oBW is a logical choice). Let her have all the purple while you collect green for Onslaughting her or similar. Kill her with match damage and strike tiles. Etc, etc.
If Daredevil's jazz hands move would be the staple of AP stealing abilities in this game, I wouldn't want to live on this planet anymore.
The point is, stop calling a move broken if you still haven't learnt how to deal with Recon. 2*s can do it, 3*s can do it, but you still call it broken? More power to people like you, maybe you manage to suck all the fun from the game in the long run and all we're left with is lazyDaken and lazyThor. I wish you had left already if demanding nerfs to playable characters is the only thing you're capable of doing now.

Pretty much. It seems silly but its so true and so simple.

How to beat any oBW: kill her 1st. Unless there's a cStorm, there ignore everyone else and knock her out. Your offense wont truly begin until shes gone. -if it needs saying, this does not account for bad cascades or you being too low levled to do any real damage.-

I self capped my usable (nut not maxed) 3*s at 85. Even with their less than 85 2* match damage i can pepper her up enough to hit her with something nasty from any colour not blue, purple, or black. and even without them, i have some good 2*s that don't use her match stolen colours to pop moves off relatively quickly or at least wear her down if they can get match damage in the 120+ range. I see a oBW shes getting Dakened to death. There are lots of options for knocking out OBW.

daken match her to death
Juggs 6ap red. 2-3 and shes dead/near dead even @ lvl85
anything ares.
85 5/5 green wolverine
Thats just a few off of the top of my head, im sure the list goes on.

Her infestation of the 2 star mmr brackets has only a little to do with her being so good, too many of the 2*s suck in comparison and there are so few compared to the 3*s. Fix that and we'll finally see something other than oBW/cStorm/Thor/ares/wolverine>>>>>>>>/Daken all the damn time. Moonstone, and Bullseye should not have to be lvl capped to be finally be effective. 2* Cap is a pvp Joke. Heck, hes not even that great n PVE is the board is even SLIGHTLY out of his favour.


and anyone foolish enough to run a mid to low level oBW, for some cheap easy steals deserves to get that meaty retaliation. shes a wet tissue at lower levels. Glad she works for you on offense, hiding behind spider guy or whoever. because shes gonna be the 1st character to get dropped.

over_clocked

Objection, Cap (both versions) is really good in PvE even if the board isn't that great. I won or was close to winning by accident numerous times when I intended to wipe with Cap. Stamina is his suit all right.

And no one really runs both oBW and Spidey unless their Spidey is low-leveled and oBW feeds him blue.

Otherwise agreement on all fronts.

Unknown

If you look at her level 5 Anti-Gravity Device description, it is explained that she will heal half of usual and add turns to cd tiles.

Unknown

Ok so far we have had more talk about how she's an awesome healer. We have had more talk about how she can be beaten and strategies to fight her. We have had more comments about how I should go away and stop defending my point so you can deliver your opinions freely and without opposition. What no one has done is show some good date about how her pink is balanced compared to other ap stealers and how her pink is not a broken skill. I'm starting to think that no one out there can provide this since it's all I've tried to get through the entire thread and the 1 thing no one will respond too. (Unless you count locked and their rant about how to focus all your attention on 2* OBW right from the beginning and ignore the lazy Thor and BP sitting next to her ready to clobber you.) isn't focusing all your energy on a specific 2* every time while ignoring all other 2/3/4* until OBW is dead such a great strategy that makes so much sense to have to do. Lmao.

over_clocked

Ew, Psyko. If you are unable to do so yourself...
Okay, what are other AP stealers?

Hood - extremely good, not 100% fool-proof but neither is oBW. You have to actively watch your enemy AP levels and the board. His steal is passive and is arguably better (as easy to use on offense, fool-proof for the AI on defense).
mBW - works the same, is good on levels 1-2. A one-star, so not really comparable for PvP.
Yelena - works the same, also deals laughable damage, but non-comparable as Yelena is *THE* worst character in the game and a one-star to boot so it's okay to be miles better than her.
Daredevil - non-comparable as he utilizes a different mechanism, traps. Higher risk/reward.
Psylocke - non-comparable as she utilizes a different mechanism (a CD tile). Higher risk/reward. If you steal 19+ of green/red, it's probably game over after that. (Ignoring the fact that her steal is on a highly contested colour and thus not very useful so far.)

I don't get what your gripe is. Let's demand to nerf Daredevil as his traps are the most powerful in the game, huh? Nerf Patch as his Berserker Rage is the most powerful in the game?
oBW is, for all points and purposes, the only usable PvP character with an active steal on an otherwise 'dead' colour. Therefore, your asking for reasons and comparisons looks silly for a lack of a better word.
Should we bring oBW more in line with Yelena and mBW? Should we?
Well, just name your favourite characters then. Is it lazyThor? Do I even have to state that he's OP like no other character right now? Etc, etc.