**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

Unknown

kalirion wrote:

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

You only need Hood because X Force probably is going to come with The Hood too.

If your highest level character is someone with red strongest like Thor or Sentry it gets around the defend black requirement which is pretty hard to do. Note that even if you have The Hood, he really can't be counted on as defending black since Intimidation is about as effective on X Force as writing angry threads on this forum and hope he gets nerfed. Magneto has blue as his strongest and works but not if they've The Hood, because using Polarized Force against The Hood is pretty close to a death wish, but if you go Magneto + The Hood you're probably lacking in firepower to take X Force down. I guess HT would work too (has a good black, strongest red) but he can die in one X Force and that's pretty scary to rely on him as your primary damaging guy.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

kalirion wrote:

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

You only need Hood because X Force probably is going to come with The Hood too.

If your highest level character is someone with red strongest like Thor or Sentry it gets around the defend black requirement which is pretty hard to do. Note that even if you have The Hood, he really can't be counted on as defending black since Intimidation is about as effective on X Force as writing angry threads on this forum and hope he gets nerfed. Magneto has blue as his strongest and works but not if they've The Hood, because using Polarized Force against The Hood is pretty close to a death wish, but if you go Magneto + The Hood you're probably lacking in firepower to take X Force down. I guess HT would work too (has a good black, strongest red) but he can die in one X Force and that's pretty scary to rely on him as your primary damaging guy.

You misunderstand - my goal would be to take down the high level XForce before he fires off his green or black, because the hero tanking that shot will either die or be finished off soon anyway. Denying Green and Black at the same time is kinda hard, especially since only 8 Green is needed, which is why Hood is necessary.

I don't want to use Boosts and/or Healthpacks every single fight, but it seems like I have to when almost every match starts having a 200+ level Xforce.

Hood + LCap is a team that can take anyone down given time, but even then XForce can get a cascade or whatever for his Green or even his Black to make things very unsafe, and could one-shot Hood even. And even if the enemy doesn't get to fire off any powers, in the time it takes for LCap to wind up there could easily be enough match damage to require healthpacks anyway.

Unknown

kalirion wrote:

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

I have been hopping with lvl126 Hulk/Patch combo. Hulk takes a ton of damage, but works pretty well (about 80%) against 270 XForce with 166 CMags or 166 Hood. My loss was when the 249 Psylocke went nuts on me.

I can do 2 matches in less than 5 minutes so reasonably quick to work with. Use +3 Green and, situationally, +3 All (Depends on team and time)

Unknown

kalirion wrote:

You misunderstand - my goal would be to take down the high level XForce before he fires off his green or black, because the hero tanking that shot will either die or be finished off soon anyway. Denying Green and Black at the same time is kinda hard, especially since only 8 Green is needed, which is why Hood is necessary.

I don't want to use Boosts and/or Healthpacks every single fight, but it seems like I have to when almost every match starts having a 200+ level Xforce.

Hood + LCap is a team that can take anyone down given time, but even then XForce can get a cascade or whatever for his Green or even his Black to make things very unsafe, and could one-shot Hood even.

It's unrealistic to expect to take out X Force before he uses one of his offensive moves. I end up taking an X Force from an opposing X Force all the time. The presence of a maxed X Force almost certainly implies roster superiority, so they're either running The Hood or at least they will definitely have all the other colors reasonably covered. Either way it means you cannot count on your The Hood to be a deciding factor. You have two strategies here:

1. Funnel Surgical Strike into a weak color (most likely blue or red, and it's at least better than yellow or green) and take the damage from Surgical Strike while defending green.
2. Defend black and have someone that can take an X Force (maybe Patch or Daken can do it, though even with their regen it takes a long time to recover from an X Force in mid game).

But either way you're looking at taking a 5K hit on a regular basis and there's no magic to get around that. I guess in some ideal scenario you can let them get yellow while you're dealing with his support and hope X Force uses Recovery while he's at 100% health (and if the AI doesn't do that just hit him once), but leaving X Force to last is just asking for problems.

babinro

ronin-san wrote:

douk123 wrote:

How could they nerf XForce with the release of Thor, which is even more powerful, that would make no sense at all.
Even if they did nerf him, you'd all be whining about the next best thing anyway.

EXAAAAAAAAAAACTLY.

It's clear I'm in the minority here. I get that XF is 10x less game breaking than Sentry but I still feel he's bad for the game. The defense seems to be that he's supposed to be good because he's a 4*. I think this is where I view the game differently.

In my opinion, 4* characters shouldn't clearly outshine 3*'s.
Fury certainly doesn't despite his being VERY powerful. He sill feels like he belongs in the same league as 3*

Xf is in another league. There's a reason we see him flooding LR's, PvP's and see constant play in PvE. You can justify that it's on par with BP's black but that's not the case in actual play. 4k AOE is amazing but it doesn't typically kill anyone. Surgical strike denies the AI of a useful colour (most of the time), deals a ton of damage (typically 3-6k), and often fuels one or more followup skills instantly. All while having a high chance at creating a cascade. You aren't dealing 12000 total damage...but the amount of board control and damage done frequently decides the match from one use.

I also completely disagree that Thor is stronger than Xf. She lacks true healing and so she can't be used for 30+ matches without a single health pack use. She's better than Fury for sure but she's worse than xf on offense and especially on defense. She is also designed to outshine 3*'s though. It's unfortunate but I guess that's the future of this game. ***'s are gradually becoming the new **.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

kalirion wrote:

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

You only need Hood because X Force probably is going to come with The Hood too.

If your highest level character is someone with red strongest like Thor or Sentry it gets around the defend black requirement which is pretty hard to do. Note that even if you have The Hood, he really can't be counted on as defending black since Intimidation is about as effective on X Force as writing angry threads on this forum and hope he gets nerfed. Magneto has blue as his strongest and works but not if they've The Hood, because using Polarized Force against The Hood is pretty close to a death wish, but if you go Magneto + The Hood you're probably lacking in firepower to take X Force down. I guess HT would work too (has a good black, strongest red) but he can die in one X Force and that's pretty scary to rely on him as your primary damaging guy.

I know you're kind of obessesed with hood, phantron, but have you actually tried playing recently? Hood usage at the top down is way down, he was only in like maybe 1/4 of the nodes past 1k last pvp. 4hor was probably the most common as the 2nd char, but with the absence of sentry, there's actually been a lot more diversity in teams (that include x-force): saw a fair number of mags teams, a few DP and lakens, even a LT

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Phantron wrote:

kalirion wrote:

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

You only need Hood because X Force probably is going to come with The Hood too.

If your highest level character is someone with red strongest like Thor or Sentry it gets around the defend black requirement which is pretty hard to do. Note that even if you have The Hood, he really can't be counted on as defending black since Intimidation is about as effective on X Force as writing angry threads on this forum and hope he gets nerfed. Magneto has blue as his strongest and works but not if they've The Hood, because using Polarized Force against The Hood is pretty close to a death wish, but if you go Magneto + The Hood you're probably lacking in firepower to take X Force down. I guess HT would work too (has a good black, strongest red) but he can die in one X Force and that's pretty scary to rely on him as your primary damaging guy.

I know you're kind of obessesed with hood, phantron, but have you actually tried playing recently? Hood usage at the top down is way down, he was only in like maybe 1/4 of the nodes past 1k last pvp. 4hor was probably the most common as the 2nd char, but with the absence of sentry, there's actually been a lot more diversity in teams (that include x-force): saw a fair number of mags teams, a few DP and lakens, even a LT

That just means people are so reliant on Sentry bombing that they can't even use by far the strongest support character in the game without Sentry bomb as a crutch. Sure if you're running a lot of boosts some of The Hood's power is mitigated but he's even pretty strong against boosts in general. Run Thor against The Hood and see your 2 damaging 4 match moves gets turned into 5 match moves and you pretty much can't do anything about it, and even if you got an early Smite it's not quite enough to put him away because Smite isn't very good by itself. Daken is still a solid character to use for sustained pushing and being reasonably good against The Hood so that's hardly surprising. The Hood takes some skill to use offensively since he has a tendency to own at least 2 colors (yellow/blue) in most team compositions and he obviously can't tank, but those are very minor weaknesses for how strong he is defensively.

Unknown

Need to comment.. this thread seemed appropriate.

Cascades + xforce suck. 17k+ damage on the 2nd round?? Smh

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

Spoit wrote:

Phantron wrote:

kalirion wrote:

So, just to get this straight, what kind of a 3* Team does it take to feel comfortable about attacking a 230+ XForce? Is Hood pretty much a requirement at this point?

You only need Hood because X Force probably is going to come with The Hood too.

If your highest level character is someone with red strongest like Thor or Sentry it gets around the defend black requirement which is pretty hard to do. Note that even if you have The Hood, he really can't be counted on as defending black since Intimidation is about as effective on X Force as writing angry threads on this forum and hope he gets nerfed. Magneto has blue as his strongest and works but not if they've The Hood, because using Polarized Force against The Hood is pretty close to a death wish, but if you go Magneto + The Hood you're probably lacking in firepower to take X Force down. I guess HT would work too (has a good black, strongest red) but he can die in one X Force and that's pretty scary to rely on him as your primary damaging guy.

I know you're kind of obessesed with hood, phantron, but have you actually tried playing recently? Hood usage at the top down is way down, he was only in like maybe 1/4 of the nodes past 1k last pvp. 4hor was probably the most common as the 2nd char, but with the absence of sentry, there's actually been a lot more diversity in teams (that include x-force): saw a fair number of mags teams, a few DP and lakens, even a LT

That just means people are so reliant on Sentry bombing that they can't even use by far the strongest support character in the game without Sentry bomb as a crutch. Sure if you're running a lot of boosts some of The Hood's power is mitigated but he's even pretty strong against boosts in general. Run Thor against The Hood and see your 2 damaging 4 match moves gets turned into 5 match moves and you pretty much can't do anything about it, and even if you got an early Smite it's not quite enough to put him away because Smite isn't very good by itself. Daken is still a solid character to use for sustained pushing and being reasonably good against The Hood so that's hardly surprising. The Hood takes some skill to use offensively since he has a tendency to own at least 2 colors (yellow/blue) in most team compositions and he obviously can't tank, but those are very minor weaknesses for how strong he is defensively.

I'm not talking about the relative qualties. I'm talking about actual gameplay. Just play more matches above the 600 or so you usually do, hood use is way down.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

I'm not talking about the relative qualties. I'm talking about actual gameplay. Just play more matches above the 600 or so you usually do, hood use is way down.

I think what happens right now is that people started figuring out Daken can at least attack X Force relatively successfully. Sure you can't possibly defend against X Force but if you assume the guy running X Force + The Hood is generally taking down other teams with ease, you can just find one worth a lot of points and be pretty sure that guy isn't going to hit back. And of course there are plenty of other characters that match up well with Daken, so the points from the X Force teams slowly trickles down to rest. I don't see how any two duo can compete with X Force + The Hood in the long run, but there are some events where playing The Hood is painful since he gets yellow/blue/purple/red over X Force so if the featured character can't cover some of those colors you'll start having a serious health pack drain.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I'm not talking about the relative qualties. I'm talking about actual gameplay. Just play more matches above the 600 or so you usually do, hood use is way down.

I think what happens right now is that people started figuring out Daken can at least attack X Force relatively successfully. Sure you can't possibly defend against X Force but if you assume the guy running X Force + The Hood is generally taking down other teams with ease, you can just find one worth a lot of points and be pretty sure that guy isn't going to hit back. And of course there are plenty of other characters that match up well with Daken, so the points from the X Force teams slowly trickles down to rest. I don't see how any two duo can compete with X Force + The Hood in the long run, but there are some events where playing The Hood is painful since he gets yellow/blue/purple/red over X Force so if the featured character can't cover some of those colors you'll start having a serious health pack drain.

If you're boosting, there is no long run. 2 green matches (because of the steal), and your takes out the hood, and then you have a much greater color coverage for the rest of the match. Hood only really covers , so if the featured character's strong color isn't GBY and it's power for that color is lame/not covered enough, you're essentially only having half the colors covered

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

I know you're kind of obessesed with hood, phantron, but have you actually tried playing recently? Hood usage at the top down is way down, he was only in like maybe 1/4 of the nodes past 1k last pvp. 4hor was probably the most common as the 2nd char, but with the absence of sentry, there's actually been a lot more diversity in teams (that include x-force): saw a fair number of mags teams, a few DP and lakens, even a LT

You are apparently not playing the same game I am. Diversity over 800 has gone to nothing. I mapped out the 22 teams that I attacked or skipped that were over 800 points in the last PvP.

Sentry/Hood 1
XForce/Daken 1
XForce/Hood 8
XForce/Hulk 4
XForce/Mags 8

I know a small sample size, but when 21 out of 22 teams are running XForce, there is no diversity.

Unknown

babinro wrote:

In my opinion, 4* characters shouldn't clearly outshine 3*'s.

Why exactly not? Most 2*s clearly outshine 1*s, and most 3*s clearly outshine 2*s. Take a maxed 2* team with against a team of 2 2*s and 1 maxed 3*. If it's one of the better 3*s, it's obvious who has the advantage.
Why wouldn't that carry over into the 4*s?

The potential difference here is that not many 3*s can completely carry their team against a good 2* team-up. But they still clearly outshine their 2* analogues.

Unknown

papa07 wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I know you're kind of obessesed with hood, phantron, but have you actually tried playing recently? Hood usage at the top down is way down, he was only in like maybe 1/4 of the nodes past 1k last pvp. 4hor was probably the most common as the 2nd char, but with the absence of sentry, there's actually been a lot more diversity in teams (that include x-force): saw a fair number of mags teams, a few DP and lakens, even a LT

You are apparently not playing the same game I am. Diversity over 800 has gone to nothing. I mapped out the 22 teams that I attacked or skipped that were over 800 points in the last PvP.

Sentry/Hood 1
XForce/Daken 1
XForce/Hood 8
XForce/Hulk 4
XForce/Mags 8

I know a small sample size, but when 21 out of 22 teams are running XForce, there is no diversity.

Well that was a statement about The Hood, but that looks like close to half of the teams have The Hood. There are always the guys running The Hulk for reasons I don't understand (I guess he scares some people?), and I'm not sure about the X Force + Magneto teams. I can't imagine people would prefer to face X Force + Mag/Hulk over The Hood though unless you always max boost, but if you do then against the latter teams you'd just go for the immediate knockout on X Force and there's almost no way you'd lose to featured + Mag/Hulk, versus either knocking out The Hood and still have to face X Force, or knocking out X Force and The Hood will definitely slow you down a lot now that you run out of your initial burst which is also disastrous in a shield hop situation.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

papa07 wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I know you're kind of obessesed with hood, phantron, but have you actually tried playing recently? Hood usage at the top down is way down, he was only in like maybe 1/4 of the nodes past 1k last pvp. 4hor was probably the most common as the 2nd char, but with the absence of sentry, there's actually been a lot more diversity in teams (that include x-force): saw a fair number of mags teams, a few DP and lakens, even a LT

You are apparently not playing the same game I am. Diversity over 800 has gone to nothing. I mapped out the 22 teams that I attacked or skipped that were over 800 points in the last PvP.

Sentry/Hood 1
XForce/Daken 1
XForce/Hood 8
XForce/Hulk 4
XForce/Mags 8

I know a small sample size, but when 21 out of 22 teams are running XForce, there is no diversity.

Well that was a statement about The Hood, but that looks like close to half of the teams have The Hood. There are always the guys running The Hulk for reasons I don't understand (I guess he scares some people?), and I'm not sure about the X Force + Magneto teams. I can't imagine people would prefer to face X Force + Mag/Hulk over The Hood though unless you always max boost, but if you do then against the latter teams you'd just go for the immediate knockout on X Force and there's almost no way you'd lose to featured + Mag/Hulk, versus either knocking out The Hood and still have to face X Force, or knocking out X Force and The Hood will definitely slow you down a lot now that you run out of your initial burst which is also disastrous in a shield hop situation.

I saw lots of 4hor and X-Force plus Psylocke last PvP, and my lonely X-Force/Hood stopped all of them cold, Phantron's right, if you go after their Hood you just lost your burst, your now dependent upon falling into enough Black for Surgical Strike to hopefully get green but the board doesn't always play that way and if you just spent a few turns getting Green you've more than likely depleted the board abit, meaning you aren't going to finish off the opposing X-Force, that's all assuming you can take the Hood down quickly because if the board has lots of green that's not matchable, The Hood begins to push that 2 match X-Force to a 3 Match X-Force, all while feeding the other X-Force. I think once the 4hor novelty wears off you'll start to see lots of 4hor/Hood and XForce/Hood because 4hor and Xforce don't work super well together unless you are boosting, as you are looking for 4 colors.

FYI, if no one is running Hood, then Sentry/Hood bombing is super viable, you can blast through any team that isn't running Hood, however anytime I ran up against an XForce/Hood I was extremely slowed or lost. I was able to clear 4 matches Sentry bombing while in a shield hop, I have yet to do that with anyone else yet.

Unknown

There is no need for a nerf to X-Force. The was a major need for a buff, and that happened, and in an amazing way. They turned him into a true 4* character, worthy of the distinction. Him and LadyThor are both incredibly powerful, and rightfully should be. 4* characters should be stronger than 3*, and with the amount of time, ISO, and in some cases money, people have put in, they are rewarded with a game-changing character, a game-ending character.

Leave X-Force as is. It gives everyone something to ultimately work towards.

NorthernPolarity

muz1kman wrote:

There is no need for a nerf to X-Force. The was a major need for a buff, and that happened, and in an amazing way. They turned him into a true 4* character, worthy of the distinction. Him and LadyThor are both incredibly powerful, and rightfully should be. 4* characters should be stronger than 3*, and with the amount of time, ISO, and in some cases money, people have put in, they are rewarded with a game-changing character, a game-ending character.

Leave X-Force as is. It gives everyone something to ultimately work towards.

I think the point is that X-Force is so good that he's better than LadyThor by a considerable margin. Time will tell if X-Force needs a nerf as well, but it's pretty clear that he's on a level of his own compared to LadyThor and fury.

Phaserhawk

First off, D3's history of buffing, nerfing, balancing has been terrible, they tend to see-saw with drastic changes rather than subtle changes that you allow to simmer before you tweak things a little bit. When it comes to balancing I always recomend the power of 5, which means only increase or decrease things by 5% at a time before you do anything else.

Lets look at D3's history

Ragnarok -- nerfed to death
Loki--nerfed to death
Wolverine--nerfed very poorly
Thor--power shifted from red to green, fairly balanced (gold another story)
Storm (classic)--nerfed to barely passable
Storm (1*,3*)--nerfed, then reworked to not very good status
Daken ---avg, to unbelievable, to about right
Spidey--destroyed
OBW--she's okay, but true healing has hurt her
Hawkeye--good job
C.Mags--overall good rework, however terrible on the colorshift
Hood--fail, didn't address the real problem and overnerfed
X-Farce to X-Force indeed
IW--reworked from just terrible to terrible

As you can see the only one they got right lately was Hawkeye, Thor 2* was actually not bad as he was ridicuolous before, Daken I think is pretty good in terms of raw power, but it took them a few tries. So do we really want D3 going at X-Force again?

Now is X-Force vastly overpowered or is the rest of field that weak? I will say that X-Force is a bit on the strong side but with two tweaks he would become fair and 1.) is to halve the damage of Surgical Strike. Because of the ability to completely obliterate AP on the other team while you gaining some doesn't really need a whole lot of damage in addition to what it does. Recovery is fair, no one complains about that as for X-Force, damage wise it's not out of line as Human Torch has a better skill at 8 AP than X-Force but the resulting cascades are what is making this insane, I say maybe just go back to level 3 destruction which is just the 5x5 x shape and you have him fairly balanced

kalex716

So in the Stop whining about xforce thread....

This entire page is now full of basically a how to guide for your Xforce + hood or some other combination in order to own if you happen to have your very own xforce.