**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Pwuz_

I think there is an argument that X-Force is leagues better than the other 4* characters.

Considering that Fury is better than most 3*'s, and 4* Thor looks to be on par with X-Force, I would say the outliers are actually Invisible Woman & Devil Dino.

Now Invisible Woman is obviously in desperate need of a buff to become more usable (she could be buffed into the most powerful defensive character in the game with only a few tweaks.)

Devil Dino is more of a joke/transitional 4* character than the rest.

X-Force is as powerful as I expect a 4* to be. Let's talk about buffing IW & DD before we discuss any further changes to X-Force.

Unknown

Nick Fury is not better than most 3*s because every one of his move is a 4 match move and Escape Plan just doesn't hit that hard while Avenger's Assemble have additional requirements. X Force should be more powerful than 3* but the amount he's better than they are is a bit too much. There's also the true healing coming back to haunt the game, as even if Nick Fury/IW are exactly as strong as him you'd still prefer to use a guy who has double regen and can just go to some goons to heal back up. If he doesn't have true healing then maybe you can say he's balanced relative to Nick Fury. As an aside, all 4* are of the R/Y/G strongest color (X Force - G, Devil Dino - G, IW - Y, Nick Fury - Y, Thor - R) so again you run into the same issue here because he's exceptionally powerful against R/Y/G characters who happen to encompass almost viable PvP character in the game. I don't think it's a bad concept for a character to be strong against certain colors, but right now almost every good character is on those colors and that is no longer a situational advantage.

MarcusGraves

I'd rather X-force be considered the bar of what 4*'s should look like and not get him nerfed in some weird way because truthfully its not like he's been toxic to the health of the game since his rework. if you want to stick to 4* land, I could see in the future people with a 4* thor easily tangling with XF since her blue is only 9 AP and could easily keep XF locked down long enough for a smite which he will certainly not survive even at max level since it can do 12109 damage with the 12 charged tiles power surge drops.

fury really just needs escape plan to be at the least 9 AP to make him perfect in my opinion since no one wants to take 3k+ damage to the face and IW really needs a rework. the game is really just entering the age of 4*'s and more time needs to go by to see how it all plays out.

Unknown

MarcusGraves wrote:

I'd rather X-force be considered the bar of what 4*'s should look like and not get him nerfed in some weird way because truthfully its not like he's been toxic to the health of the game since his rework. if you want to stick to 4* land, I could see in the future people with a 4* thor easily tangling with XF since her blue is only 9 AP and could easily keep XF locked down long enough for a smite which he will certainly not survive even at max level since it can do 12109 damage with the 12 charged tiles power surge drops.

fury really just needs escape plan to be at the least 9 AP to make him perfect in my opinion since no one wants to take 3k+ damage to the face and IW really needs a rework. the game is really just entering the age of 4*'s and more time needs to go by to see how it all plays out.

Well if we start with just 4*s, change Thor to blue strongest and Devil Dino to purple strongest. That'd have a reasonable balance of characters that can slow down Surgical Strike without any changes to the color composition of a color, and then we don't have the Surgical Strike always combo into an instant kill.

T_REZ5000

Phantron wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

I'd rather X-force be considered the bar of what 4*'s should look like and not get him nerfed in some weird way because truthfully its not like he's been toxic to the health of the game since his rework. if you want to stick to 4* land, I could see in the future people with a 4* thor easily tangling with XF since her blue is only 9 AP and could easily keep XF locked down long enough for a smite which he will certainly not survive even at max level since it can do 12109 damage with the 12 charged tiles power surge drops.

fury really just needs escape plan to be at the least 9 AP to make him perfect in my opinion since no one wants to take 3k+ damage to the face and IW really needs a rework. the game is really just entering the age of 4*'s and more time needs to go by to see how it all plays out.

Well if we start with just 4*s, change Thor to blue strongest and Devil Dino to purple strongest. That'd have a reasonable balance of characters that can slow down Surgical Strike without any changes to the color composition of a color, and then we don't have the Surgical Strike always combo into an instant kill.

Does surgical strike really lead to instant kill against 16.5k and 19k health? Because it looks like that's where 4* tanks are going to be at health wise.

Unknown

T-REZ5000 wrote:

Does surgical strike really lead to instant kill against 16.5k and 19k health? Because it looks like that's where 4* tanks are going to be at health wise.

Not directly, but if the AP you get to it feeds multiple other damage-causing abilities, it can easily do that much damage in total.

Unknown

T-REZ5000 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

I'd rather X-force be considered the bar of what 4*'s should look like and not get him nerfed in some weird way because truthfully its not like he's been toxic to the health of the game since his rework. if you want to stick to 4* land, I could see in the future people with a 4* thor easily tangling with XF since her blue is only 9 AP and could easily keep XF locked down long enough for a smite which he will certainly not survive even at max level since it can do 12109 damage with the 12 charged tiles power surge drops.

fury really just needs escape plan to be at the least 9 AP to make him perfect in my opinion since no one wants to take 3k+ damage to the face and IW really needs a rework. the game is really just entering the age of 4*'s and more time needs to go by to see how it all plays out.

Well if we start with just 4*s, change Thor to blue strongest and Devil Dino to purple strongest. That'd have a reasonable balance of characters that can slow down Surgical Strike without any changes to the color composition of a color, and then we don't have the Surgical Strike always combo into an instant kill.

Does surgical strike really lead to instant kill against 16.5k and 19k health? Because it looks like that's where 4* tanks are going to be at health wise.

Surgical is a gut shot. The opponent isn't dead right then but really, he's dead the vast majority of time.

Spoit

unbemator wrote:

I dont understand this.. ppl asked for xforce buff cuz he was awfull. He gets buffed and becomes what a 4* should be. And now theres ppl asking for a nerf... is he op? Hell no! Is he powerfull? Yes he is and thats what he should be...

Have..you met phantron? There's never a character he met that he doesn't think needs to be nerfed

Unknown

T-REZ5000 wrote:

I don't understand why people want x-force nerfed. Is it because he's better than any 3* (after sentry nerf)?

According to that logic then punisher and most 3*s should be nerfed. After all, they are better than 2*s.

Personally, I think 4*s should be better than 3*s. As such I think IW and fury (to a lesser extent) should be buffed to further differentiate their power level from the 3* tier.

The difference is there aren't enough 4 stars yet to have a 3 to 4 transitional stage.

Right now there are three tiers of players:

1 star going into 2 star

2 star going into 3 star

and 3 star and beyond.


So, until there is a new tier of just 4 star players, then Xforce will dominate the entire scene of the 3+star players.

So, he's essentially a 3 star character, as there is no additional tier to place him in.

3 stars play very little role in the 2 star transition (other than being a wall), so its not all that comparable.

vudu3

Phantron wrote:

If D3 refuses to release any character that's top tier with blue/purple as their strongest color then I'm willing to see Surgical Strike not generate AP on level 5. I still think it's not necessary because all you need is a top tier blue/purple strongest color character that will force either a team change (which usually involves dropping The Hood for someone else) or make Surgical Strike just a 5K damage move for 11 black, which is still decent but hardly game ending.

cMags and Daken say 'hello'.

Unknown

I propose xforce go back to his original state. Surgical strike to enrage slash .Then, no argue nerf thread.

Mikaveus

That Surgical Strike needs to be nerfed ASAP. If my Classic Mags can lose his blue tile placing Magnetic Field, then I want my pound of flesh too!!

Unknown

So twice in the last sub (not the main) in TaT on the Ares/Venom/Moonstone node I killed Ares, he was dead, dead, dead, and later used Surgical Strike and it hit green.

Isay_Isay

gamar wrote:

So twice in the last sub (not the main) in TaT on the Ares/Venom/Moonstone node I killed Ares, he was dead, dead, dead, and later used Surgical Strike and it hit green.

I take it Venom was still alive? Oddly enough, his strongest color is green.

Unknown

Isay_Isay wrote:

gamar wrote:

So twice in the last sub (not the main) in TaT on the Ares/Venom/Moonstone node I killed Ares, he was dead, dead, dead, and later used Surgical Strike and it hit green.

I take it Venom was still alive? Oddly enough, his strongest color is green.

Haha, weird. Mystery solved

Phaserhawk

vudu3 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If D3 refuses to release any character that's top tier with blue/purple as their strongest color then I'm willing to see Surgical Strike not generate AP on level 5. I still think it's not necessary because all you need is a top tier blue/purple strongest color character that will force either a team change (which usually involves dropping The Hood for someone else) or make Surgical Strike just a 5K damage move for 11 black, which is still decent but hardly game ending.

cMags and Daken say 'hello'.

I think it's just a matter of time before blue and purple get a top tier skill, and once this happens, then yes Surgical Strike becomes instantly balanced. My suggestion though is to change 4* tile strength to 3* levels or move 3*'s tile strength up to 4*. This would keep people from just building off another teams X-Force.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If D3 refuses to release any character that's top tier with blue/purple as their strongest color then I'm willing to see Surgical Strike not generate AP on level 5. I still think it's not necessary because all you need is a top tier blue/purple strongest color character that will force either a team change (which usually involves dropping The Hood for someone else) or make Surgical Strike just a 5K damage move for 11 black, which is still decent but hardly game ending.

cMags and Daken say 'hello'.

I think it's just a matter of time before blue and purple get a top tier skill, and once this happens, then yes Surgical Strike becomes instantly balanced. My suggestion though is to change 4* tile strength to 3* levels or move 3*'s tile strength up to 4*. This would keep people from just building off another teams X-Force.

Well you'd also need a character who has blue or purple as strongest color too. Demolition and Escape Plan are solid top tier skills for those two colors, but Nick Fury's highest color is yellow. In theory this should be pretty easy to fix. Even if you don't want to change any character's coloring you can simply reorder them, like make Black Panther's strongest color blue instead of yellow and that'd at least give you a decent matchup.

From looking at the 2*/3* I don't think it's possible for different star tiers to have exactly the same tile strength. The +40 level boosts for 2* seems to make them appear to have same tile strength as a level 166 3* but when you run the 2* you'll find there's still the decimal place that you cannot see. Since 'strongest color' is becoming a recurring concept in MPQ, they really need to make it so that you have some control on what it is. Maybe it'd be better to just make it the strongest color of the center character instead.

mjh

edited and moved to next page

BillyBobJoe

MarcusGraves wrote:

I'd rather X-force be considered the bar of what 4*'s should look like and not get him nerfed in some weird way because truthfully its not like he's been toxic to the health of the game since his rework. if you want to stick to 4* land, I could see in the future people with a 4* thor easily tangling with XF since her blue is only 9 AP and could easily keep XF locked down long enough for a smite which he will certainly not survive even at max level since it can do 12109 damage with the 12 charged tiles power surge drops.

fury really just needs escape plan to be at the least 9 AP to make him perfect in my opinion since no one wants to take 3k+ damage to the face and IW really needs a rework. the game is really just entering the age of 4*'s and more time needs to go by to see how it all plays out.

I agree with this. It makes sense now that top end players have maxed 3 star characters, that the game be transitioned into 4 star land. The only thing the devs need to do is make 4 stars more attainable then. As it is, you need 4 star characters to get 4 star characters.

Unknown

I dont think they'll nerf xforce, because hes not game-breaking.

- Sentry's damage output speed was ridiculous and game-breaking.

- CMags ability to create infinite chains of blue crits was game-breaking - especially when combined with punishers env tiles.

- Spidermans stun-lock was game-breaking.

- Hoods yellow on charged tiles, earning AP would have been game breaking.

XForce is definitely formidable and not a character people enjoy facing. But that's not reason enough to nerf him.