**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

daibar wrote:

This will probably be an unpopular suggestion, but why not increase the cost of the skill at covers 4 and 5? It's still be worth it at 12 AP to drain your opponents AP, and still be more than worth it at 13 AP to generate AP.

Moving from 4 to 5 matches changes the skill considerably in terms of how fast you can get it.

There's no reason for the 5th cover to have both a significant increase in damage and generating AP. Just one of the two is more than enough.

homeinvasion

It's really fun to use the same characters, versus the same characters, except I get to use boosts, go first, choose who to target on their team, I just love to win, wait a second if all the teams are the same we may as well get rid of all the other characters and call it Xforce puzzle quest, or I could just play candy crush, its basically the same match 3 thing.

Eddiemon

evil panda wrote:

We need to stop calling for nerfs in general. It really discourages people who heavily invest in the game (and not necessarily money), who I would think are the people D3 would want to keep playing the game. If you spend hundreds of dollars in this game, you can only invest in so many Ragnaroks, Spidey, CMags, Sentry before feeling ripped off. If you're a F2P player it might be even worse because you'll either never get a competitive roster because the characters you need to focus on keeps shifting, or you spend sooo much time getting there only to enjoy it for a couple of weeks or months.

There will always be OP characters. The game is just too diverse to ensure there won't be. And as someone else keeps saying, shouldn't a 4* be able to lay waste to 3*'s?

There shouldn't be OP characters. There will always be characters that are more powerful than others, but characters that have a good chance of wins in 3 or less moves fall into the OP category. As do game changers like stunlock Spiderman. OP characters need to be dealt with, and D3 deal with them far too slowly.

There will always be power bands of characters, they are not always equal, but nerfs and buffs should be used to bring outliers back to the pack. If you left original Loki and Ragnarok alone, what kind of power creep would have been needed to make characters more powerful? How does the game play out where all D3 can do is bring out characters with a more reliable first turn win mechanism?

And throwing more health at characters doesn't fix things, as it alienates 2* rosters and makes the climb harder.

Unknown

Business is business. X force will be nerfed in the future if d3 find that the cash inflow of the company goes down just like the casses before.

BillyBobJoe

Jojo-Teddybigboyz wrote:

If people complain about X-force IMO, it's just because after 700 points we see him in every teams. And people who haven't him yet are jealous

You would be right if it wasn't unfair. In order to get XF you need to score way higher than 700. In order to score over 700, you now need a higher lvl XF.

Jojo-Teddybigboyz wrote:

And even if they nerf X-Force, then who next ?... 4*Thor, LThor, Black Panther, Hood, Cmag (one more time) ...
If you can win against X-Force with normal 3* roster then he is fine. If the problem is the shield op, then it's the game design which has a problem...
D3P should work on the bracket more and make a special bracket for people in transition, a bracket for people with at least 3 3*, and a bracket for people who have full leveled required characters + 3* and more.

This is right. With Lady Thor it seems the devs want to make a transition stage to 4star. IF that is the case, then they need to fix the bracketing and reward system.

If this is the case, then XF is a good character. If this is NOT the case, then Lady Thor and XForce are ridiculously OP.

Unknown

Why nerf when you can BUFF! Sure it's probably way easier, but you want to get people excited? Tell them they are getting something for nothing! Why can't Beast green be the same as BP black? That's already better right, suddenly he's a bit more interesting. Now driving sales... Sure it's a slippery slope but some of these characters are just begging for it...so to speak.

Long live X-Force Wolfie

Konman

modmousests wrote:

Every time there is a good character people whine about it. Every game in existence has characters who are better than others. Just play and shut up. I have an xforce level 208 that i play. I regularly beat level 270 xforces. Get some tinykitties and put in some effort. Furthermore i have 7 characters maxed at 166 and ive spent a total of 99 cents on this game. I have all characters and ive never worried about hero pointz cuz i dont waste em shield hopping. People need to buck up

Translation: "I got mine Jack, and everyone else can **** off!"

DD-The-Mighty

raziel777 wrote:

Jojo-Teddybigboyz wrote:

X-force is not OP, you just have to take green and black and he will do nothing.

MOTHER OF THUNDER GODDESS. It all makes sense... How could it have been so simple!

Unknown

****, really. BP does over 10k damage with his black which cost more than XForce that does around 5k. That compensates the drain.
Green is powerful but it's something youre waiting for, he's a 4* for gods sake, not a 3*. He doesnt let you wipe a team under a minute like Sentry did and we suffered months of him.
How could they nerf XForce with the release of Thor, which is even more powerful, that would make no sense at all.
Even if they did nerf him, you'd all be whining about the next best thing anyway.

babinro wrote:

He's too powerful. FUN...but broken.
I've been calling for this before Sentry nerf was announced by D3 as Xforce deserves a nerf.

His black ability is too good for the cost. It frequently does absurd damage 4k-6k while almost always draining the AI's best colour and adding enough AP to your for you to follow up with 1 or more follow up skills. There's just too much control going on here and the match is almost always decided on the first team who surgical strikes. There's a TON of ways to nerf this but I don't know what would be best. Maybe scale down the damage considerably...maybe remove AP drain...maybe cap the AP gain to 5 based on covers.

His green is pretty strong as well. I don't think it needs to be nerfed but I wouldn't be upset if they scaled it down about 500 damage so it averages around 4k instead of 4.5k to 5k+

The damage done by his yellow should be considerably buffed to help compensate and make that cover more enticing. I'm talking at least doubled if not tripled.

In response to people always going after good characters...I'd disagree. BP is a fantastic character and people don't cry for a nerf with him. Captain America is also completely insane on offense when he goes online. Fury is an excellent character but people tend to accept him as well. The main different with these people are that their abilities cost more and they don't have true healing. They can't be abused to sustained play for hours on end like X-force can.

Unknown

Hi,

I'd like to invest in X-Force but i heard he might be nerfed.
Does someone have some information about it ?

When will we know ? I like him as he is, and i wouldn't like to spend iso and HP if he's nerfed in few days.

thanks !

Unknown

There's been no official announcement that he will be nerfed, just alot of people calling for him to be nerfed due to how strong he is.

D3 tends to be slow at rolling out changes. There has been about 2-3 months between buffs and nerfs so far and sentry just got his so I think there is unlikely to be any bans or nerfs for at least a month or two.

Unknown

X Force is most definitely ahead of the power curve even by 4* standards. However his strength is not a simple case of being overwhelming stronger than anyone else like Sentry or Magneto. There are several things involved here:

1. X Force (the move) is a bit too good for its cost.
2. Surgical Strike is massively overpowered in the featured hero PvP event format (it's a lot weaker in a freeform PvP event, but good luck finding one of those).
3. He's probably got the best synergy with The Hood. He also covers green, which covers one of The Hood's biggest weakness. That is, The Hood cannot cover green and you don't want to be dependent on a variable featured character for the most important offensive color in the game.
4. Lack of heroes with the right 'strongest color' makes Surgical Strike even more overpowered than it ought to be.
5. He has true healing and double regen on a game where health packs are limited.

All these by themselves are within acceptable limits for a 4* that should be stronger. When you put the whole package together he's way too good, but notice that the only part that is directly overpowered due to himself is X Force (the move) being a bit too good for a green, and it's not even overwhelmingly better than comparable green moves, even though it is definitely the top green move right now. For example, if we have a new viable top 5 character with blue as strongest color then Surgical Strike will be brought back down to earth. For that matter, allowing more freeform PvP events will also greatly weaken Surgical Strike. A nerf on The Hood also weakens X Force because he's got the best synergy with by far the strongest support character in the game. A more sensible revision to the healing system could render true healing to be just a convenience instead of a something you build around for all PvE events and most PvP events (if The Hood is not overwhelmingly the best support character you'd probably use Daken on most early PvP fights just because he has true healing too).

It's not clear to me whether they'll fix the underlying system that makes X Force overpowered or just nerf him and keep the system as is. Just his double regen + true healing alone pretty much makes him better than anyone else even if he's exactly equal to anyone else, and of course he's not equal to anyone else. He is indeed better.

ronin_san

douk123 wrote:

How could they nerf XForce with the release of Thor, which is even more powerful, that would make no sense at all.
Even if they did nerf him, you'd all be whining about the next best thing anyway.

EXAAAAAAAAAAACTLY.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Thor is simply a lot weaker compared to X Force because unless The Hood gets hit with a huge nerf that takes away his status as an auto-include in the top teams

The nice part about the Daken event was the distinct lack of Hood climbing to 1100. Yeah, he was out there on a few teams, but he was by no means an auto-include. If you use him lots, you'll see him lots because thats how people have to retaliate. I fought a ton of XForce sure, but it was Fury/Mags/Thor/Hulk/Dino that was joining him. Very few XForce/Hoods, and it's quite easy to just skip them.

To the topic at hand, unless XForce actually breaks a game mechanic, don't expect a nerf. What they've nerfed so far have been things that generate (or in the case of Hood/Thorina, will generate) infinite turns, or reduce the games to trivial match time. XForce, while a beast does not reduce matches to triviality as Sentry did, and doesn't generate infinite turns. He's strong, but he still takes time to do his thing, and he's by no means an auto-win button.

And that's before even talking about the fact the devs clearly don't like re-visiting a character even once, so twice seems completely out of the question.

Best post in this thread, although nobody will read it and still complain that XForce is 'unfair'. XForce is a dangerous character who can quite easily wipe your team if he gets some lucky cascades or matches - and thats probably why people keep moaning - even though there are a lot of characters that can cause absolute havok if they get some lucky cascades.

He doesnt break any game mechanics, which is the main reason to re-balance a character.

Unknown

For me, X-Force isn't the problem. It's matchmaking. I don't have a 13-cover X-Force, or a 13-cover Fury. So why is it that from 300 points on, the only thing I see are teams with 240+ X-Force? I can't compete against an X-Force without a similarly powered character on my team. Hence why I asked in the Dec. Q&A thread whether the presence of a 13-cover IW is screwing me over in the matchmaking.

dr tinykittylove

Riggy wrote:

For me, X-Force isn't the problem. It's matchmaking. I don't have a 13-cover X-Force, or a 13-cover Fury. So why is it that from 300 points on, the only thing I see are teams with 240+ X-Force? I can't compete against an X-Force without a similarly powered character on my team. Hence why I asked in the Dec. Q&A thread whether the presence of a 13-cover IW is screwing me over in the matchmaking.

You need to learn to manipulate the matchmaking. I have a late transition roster (dozen L141 3* with maxed covers and a 12-cover xf at L141.) and blithely climb past 500 without seeing more than a couple of maxed teams that are easily skipped. In the Fresh Cut pvp I was still frolicking in 2* land at 541 points. Though the bad thing is that they tend to have lower scores.... I start seeing serious opposition from mid-600 and high level XF around 700s.

Unknown

dr tinykittylove wrote:

Riggy wrote:

For me, X-Force isn't the problem. It's matchmaking. I don't have a 13-cover X-Force, or a 13-cover Fury. So why is it that from 300 points on, the only thing I see are teams with 240+ X-Force? I can't compete against an X-Force without a similarly powered character on my team. Hence why I asked in the Dec. Q&A thread whether the presence of a 13-cover IW is screwing me over in the matchmaking.

You need to learn to manipulate the matchmaking. I have a late transition roster (dozen L141 3* with maxed covers and a 12-cover xf at L141.) and blithely climb past 500 without seeing more than a couple of maxed teams that are easily skipped. In the Fresh Cut pvp I was still frolicking in 2* land at 541 points. Though the bad thing is that they tend to have lower scores.... I start seeing serious opposition from mid-600 and high level XF around 700s.

I'm pretty decent at MMR management, I think. The issue is that if I don't have enough extra playtime to tank, then I get screwed on MMR. But that's an underlying flaw to the matchmaking system. So perhaps my glib post above wasn't coherent enough, but I think your post also just helps reiterate that once again, X-F isn't the problem, matchmaking is.

Unknown

X-Force had a nerf, it was his release. D3 fixed him to the proper levels.

He can't do the following things (boostless):
One shot a full team
One shot an individual 3* (depending on the 3* it has to take 2 powers)
Stun lock a character
Stun at all
Win a match by him self over 20% of the time (if he was by him self) (depending on other team makeup)
Generate a never ending chain of moves.

Sure he is powerful now, but he should be, he is a 4* after all.

dr tinykittylove

Riggy wrote:

dr tinykittylove wrote:

Riggy wrote:

For me, X-Force isn't the problem. It's matchmaking. I don't have a 13-cover X-Force, or a 13-cover Fury. So why is it that from 300 points on, the only thing I see are teams with 240+ X-Force? I can't compete against an X-Force without a similarly powered character on my team. Hence why I asked in the Dec. Q&A thread whether the presence of a 13-cover IW is screwing me over in the matchmaking.

You need to learn to manipulate the matchmaking. I have a late transition roster (dozen L141 3* with maxed covers and a 12-cover xf at L141.) and blithely climb past 500 without seeing more than a couple of maxed teams that are easily skipped. In the Fresh Cut pvp I was still frolicking in 2* land at 541 points. Though the bad thing is that they tend to have lower scores.... I start seeing serious opposition from mid-600 and high level XF around 700s.

I'm pretty decent at MMR management, I think. The issue is that if I don't have enough extra playtime to tank, then I get screwed on MMR. But that's an underlying flaw to the matchmaking system. So perhaps my glib post above wasn't coherent enough, but I think your post also just helps reiterate that once again, X-F isn't the problem, matchmaking is.

Perhaps. But while we're waiting for a workable solution... I don't tank, actually. "Terribly sore loser" is my middle name. There's an art to it I discovered a long while back. You can pm me if you want to try it.

Phaserhawk

yeah, I would pull back some of the damage on Surgical Strike per tile but leave the rest as is, you could make it cost 12AP but that would only slow the double match 4 black match 3 black early surgical strikes, other than that it doesn't really change the speed of the skill. Even if you halved the damage of the skill I would love it, hell even if it did no damage I would love it