**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

The damage from black isn't really anything to write home about by itself, but the AP is gets will usually let you get two moves off in a row plus whatever AP you got from the cascades.

I don't think Fury works too well because then you'd only have one move between your two selectable characters that's not a 4 match move (X Force green) and that might be a bit too slow.

Joker117

I think this makes him more usable though..

I'm not a fan of changing his power and color without giving us maybe an option instead of having to rebuild say from a 5/5/3 build to a 5/3/5 build on such a rare character who also if you have maxed gets you a lot of iso if you sold him but I guess it gives others who haven't been around as long time to get him I mean I've been here almost from the start and I could still use a cover or 2 so I guess it's fair right?

The color changing though ..I like it but I don't .. I'll adjust but good thing I didn't decide I would team him with doom and punisher or something (black instead of red now ) ..

Overall the change seems for the better on a character that's been weaker than he should be .. His healing may be the best in the game now (I skimmed threw it I need to check it out again) as it can damage as well ?! (Or if headings not needed it does damage..something like that right?) ..

Now we wait for IW to get fixed lol ..oh and rags/doom to get their third powers!!

wymtime

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

wymtime wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Polares wrote:

Mmm what is the other team strongest color? It is the one you have more tiles matched? it is the one with whom you can make more damage? I now Rage of the Panther uses the "other team strongest color" but i don't know how it is resolved.

Best build? 5/5/3 or 5/3/5 depending on this.

I'm going 5/3/5. I'm fan of board shake-ups and cascades and I feel like there aren't that many options. Of course I feel that the AI is going to mostly likely destroy it's own healing tile as soon as it can. >.>

5 in Black is a must. It not only does 270 damage per tile but it generates AP. You can build 5,5,3 get 11 black and it would let you get all his green ready for a 2nd attack. Massive damage + AP vs big heal. 5000 in healing is good enough. I could see 4,5,4 but not 5,3,5. Black is too good at 5.

It's a must for you but not for me. Trying to tell someone that something is a MUST is completely ignoring what they're particular play-style may be or their team compositions. 5 Black is unappealing for me when it's completely dependent on the board, the character who is in lead, and the number of tiles available.

My feeling is this with his black power. At 5 you generate the AP. Most of the time the strongest color is Green, Red, or Yellow are the strongest color and in PVP you will be using the same buffed character so you will have the same strong color. If I am going to destroy the strongest color on the board for my opponent and I could use that color to set off another attack why would I not want the AP as well? His His Yellow and Green are both very good and depending on play style 4,5,4 or 3,5,5 or 5,5,3 all have there use based on your playstyle and how you want to use him. I just don't see a strong reason to not use his black for damage and AP generation. Please choose your build the way you want I will be looking to get 5 in Black becuase I would rather get the AP from the attack than not getting the AP.

OnesOwnGrief

The reason I am going 5/3/5 is because he will normally be pair with an AP thief of some sort. Red, Green, Yellow are the main colors you'll encounter with Red and Yellow being the main ones due to Sentry, Thor, and Hood. If I am facing Sentry or Thor, I am actively denying Yellow first and foremost and Green secondary. Sacrifice is not a skill you want going off at any point you see a World Rupture and Thunder Strike is going to lead to big damage. It's just not a situation in which in going to be seeking black to stop a Mjolnir or Supernova either. This gives me little reason to go for 5 or at least 4 Black. The tile destruction is the only thing I'd have a mild use for and that's sitting at 11 AP already and is at all levels.

NorthernPolarity

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

The reason I am going 5/3/5 is because he will normally be pair with an AP thief of some sort. Red, Green, Yellow are the main colors you'll encounter with Red and Yellow being the main ones due to Sentry, Thor, and Hood. If I am facing Sentry or Thor, I am actively denying Yellow first and foremost and Green secondary. Sacrifice is not a skill you want going off at any point you see a World Rupture and Thunder Strike is going to lead to big damage. It's just not a situation in which in going to be seeking black to stop a Mjolnir or Supernova either. This gives me little reason to go for 5 or at least 4 Black. The tile destruction is the only thing I'd have a mild use for and that's sitting at 11 AP already and is at all levels.

I think you're being too defensively minded. Even though you won't typically be denying black (although with BP being top tier now this might change soon), the fact that his black is essentially a thunder strike at 5 black most of the time is good enough reason to actively pursue the color. Your logic is similar to saying that battleplan is better than rage of the panther because I can deny yellow when I use battleplan, which is a bonus, but ultimately doesn't make up for the sheer power level of rage of the panther. I also don't see how pairing him with an AP thief is relevant: there is no diminishing returns on generating AP. I think your argument is more valid if 3->5 yellow was more significant of an upgrade, but when 3->5 black essentially upgrades the ability from a thunderous clap (very average ability) to a thunder strike (one of the best abilities in the game) compared to the situational nature of yellow, I think you'd be crazy to not go 5 black.

OnesOwnGrief

I wouldn't try making assumptions on my logic when I only commented on Sentry and Thor. I made no statements on Black Panther or others and I would approach those characters differently with different setups. Black Panther is also not used nearly as much in my PvP climbs as you would think. He's mostly nonexistent honestly. Until people move away from their Thor's and Sentry, then I will move my build to accommodate. Then, for what I commonly see, the build I will use is optimal for my use. I made no comments on what other people should spec him as which plenty of people here seem to enjoy doing. My builds have worked for me and I doubt they will not work in the foreseeable future.

Mawtful

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

If I am facing Sentry or Thor, I am actively denying Yellow first and foremost and Green secondary.

At 4 or above, Black reduces your opponents AP of strongest colour by 10 as well as destroying the same coloured tiles on the board. Surely that counts as some kind of denial - moreso that it depletes their pool.
If there's enough tiles on the board for a friendly Hood to steal 1 AP, there's probably enough for your opponent to match 3 on the next turn. (PROTIP: 3 is greater than 1, so if they're about to hit the required AP, Dormammu's not going to help.)

At 8 AP, Rank 5 Green is probably the best bang for your buck on a damage + board shakeup type ability. But even at rank 3, it still compares favourably to many similar abilities.
By comparison, rank 5 Black offers something that nobody else in the game can provide (AP Delete + Damage + AP Generation + Board shakeup).

So, I'm of the opinion that 3/5/5 is much better than 5/3/5.
What remains to be seen is:
1) Usefullness of Yellow. Keeping in mind that Wolverine's a naturally faster healer, keeping this at rank 3 might be entirely possible.
2) Placement of Green. This is likely random placement of the centre of the X. At Rank 3, there are only 16 tiles where the whole X stays on the board. At Rank 5, there are 36, however there is also the possibility of overlap.

Ultimately, team composition also plays a big role. I think 3/5/5 works better with a lot of friendly special tiles, since you're less likely to take out your own tiles. 5/5/3 is definitely going to be better where Wolverine is your only Green spender (such as on an X-Force theme team of Wolverine, Psylocke, Deadpool). Actually, probably close to the best argument for going 5/5/3 is that there's still a dearth of good Black actives and healing from Yellow is almost a moot point thanks to mutant healing power. Between those two abilties, which one are you more likely to use? Might as well put the points into that one.

Anyway, you've made your mind up for now, and I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, just presenting my thoughts on the matter.

OnesOwnGrief

Mawtful wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

If I am facing Sentry or Thor, I am actively denying Yellow first and foremost and Green secondary.

At 4 or above, Black reduces your opponents AP of strongest colour by 10 as well as destroying the same coloured tiles on the board. Surely that counts as some kind of denial - moreso that it depletes their pool.
If there's enough tiles on the board for a friendly Hood to steal 1 AP, there's probably enough for your opponent to match 3 on the next turn. (PROTIP: 3 is greater than 1, so if they're about to hit the required AP, Dormammu's not going to help.)

See, I found it interesting that you quoted that text in particular. I'm aware of how black works and the benefits of using it but the issue with those two characters in particular is that their strongest color would be Red. The move doesn't work like Psylocke's where its highest color pool, but the highest match damage in the order of the team. That can actually cause a few issues if you don't down characters ahead of the line first that don't match a high priority color. If either of those two characters are placed in the back, you will be left with depleting whoever's ahead of them and whichever color that is. The other issue is that AP generation is only going to count for however many tiles are on the board. There's no real way see how well that skill works without actually testing it through gameplay, which we will have the opportunity later this week. A bad board can net you as low as 0-3 AP of a color and a great one could land you 9+ by the time you hit 11 black.

I'm not saying black is a bad skill but that what it does varies greatly. In theory, the skill sounds great but I don't feel as if the skills will be as good as I think it will be in practice. I need more hands on experience with it personally. We should have plenty of data on it in the coming week because Red was pretty much a given on X-Force at 5 since it was the better (only one to deal damage) of a **** skill set. My X-Force isn't maxed covered but I am very close and highly likely to get 5 yellow covers as it stands before either of the other skills end up at 5.

Phaserhawk

are we sure strongest color is determined by the slot 1 character? Doesnt it look at all the colors together and determine which one is the strongest? Based off of Black Panther, if an enemy has multiple colors as the strongest it could give them multiple colored AP, at least that is how it is described in the character skill, so by logic that means Wolvie could potential destroy up to 3 colors if all had a different color and were maxed.

CrookedKnight

Way back on the first page, IceIX confirmed that it compares individual characters' strongest attacks.

Unknown

The strongest color is the color with highest match damage. In the case of a tie it goes by the middle > left > right position tiebreaker. For goons, if they have only one ability then that ability is also their strongest color. I'm not sure what happens when a goon has more than one ability, but I think the top ability color is the strongest color. There is only one 'strongest color' so you won't be destroying half of the board or anything crazy like that.

Mawtful

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

See, I found it interesting that you quoted that text in particular. I'm aware of how black works and the benefits of using it but the issue with those two characters in particular is that their strongest color would be Red.

Ah, you know, I thought Sentry was Green. I don't have very much experience with him unfortunately.

It's really good that there's a lot of discussion about his abilities; there's arguments being made for three major builds which I think means that the designers may have finally nailed a character with three good abilities.

Kiamodo

Kudos to the developers. Really looking forward to playing these new builds!

Polares

For me the only thing missing in this XForce Wolvie are strike tiles. It is a pity that none of the powers place any strike tiles. I think that It could have been really great if yellow, instead of doing direct damage destroying six tiles, would place six random strike tiles in the field after infuriating wolvie for not letting him heal.

But I think he could be really powerfull, and I am saving iso to level him as soon as the R60 comes up.

MaxCavalera

Im ready! I was saving for fury after he started showing up as prizes but I think Wolvie might swoop in and steal his thunder.

Thanos

I was saving just for X-Force too, but i think now Fury can share his thunder!

In case you cant see it, that's 1,009,767 iso.

MaxCavalera

Thanos wrote:

I was saving just for X-Force too, but i think now Fury can share his thunder!

In case you cant see it, that's 1,009,767 iso.

Careful you'll end up like twysta! If thats what triggered it

Phaserhawk

Mawtful wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

See, I found it interesting that you quoted that text in particular. I'm aware of how black works and the benefits of using it but the issue with those two characters in particular is that their strongest color would be Red.

Ah, you know, I thought Sentry was Green. I don't have very much experience with him unfortunately.

It's really good that there's a lot of discussion about his abilities; there's arguments being made for three major builds which I think means that the designers may have finally nailed a character with three good abilities.

Professa D

Correct me if I'm wrong (and we'll probably just have to wait to find out), but is it possible to use black at level 5 targeting a black dominant user, deal the damage, drain their black AP, gain 11+ black AP back (presuming there's at least 11 blacks on the board which is not too far fetched) and then switch the enemy target to let's say a green dominant character, do more damage, drain their green AP, collect green AP plus now TWO significant cascade AP gains in one turn?

That would be pretty sick and it that's the case then 5 black is absolutely a must. Of course this is dependent on the assumption that it affects the current target's strongest color and not the entire team's strongest color, but even if it was the entire team's strongest color, you could just wait until that character with the strongest color was close enough to die from the direct damage caused by the black automatically changing the affected color for the next attack.

I know, it might be rather situational, but if possible would be quite fun.

Spoit

Professa D wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong (and we'll probably just have to wait to find out), but is it possible to use black at level 5 targeting a black dominant user, deal the damage, drain their black AP, gain 11+ black AP back (presuming there's at least 11 blacks on the board which is not too far fetched) and then switch the enemy target to let's say a green dominant character, do more damage, drain their green AP, collect green AP plus now TWO significant cascade AP gains in one turn?

That would be pretty sick and it that's the case then 5 black is absolutely a must. Of course this is dependent on the assumption that it affects the current target's strongest color and not the entire team's strongest color, but even if it was the entire team's strongest color, you could just wait until that character with the strongest color was close enough to die from the direct damage caused by the black automatically changing the affected color for the next attack.

I know, it might be rather situational, but if possible would be quite fun.

No, because it doesn't care which enemy is chosen, it looks at the whole enemy team for the strongest match (unless you kill the black user with it I guess?)

Besides, the only character with strong black is punpun (and maybe nefed-laken)