**** Wolverine (X-Force) **** [PRE 2015-04]

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

Hell, compare him to his own 2* self:

(Figures for X-Force are from the wikia, blame them if they're off. Like hell I've got a fully covered 4* sitting around.)

Green:
X-Force: 13 Strike tiles at strength 15 for 15 green AP.
Astonishing: 1+(Red AP/3) strike tiles at strength 40, plus 520 damage, for 6 green AP.

Red:
X-Force: 2313 damage plus three destroyed rows for 15 AP.
Astonishing: 3175 damage, straight up, for 12 AP.

Aside from the ability to overwrite enemy special tiles, the 2* green is clearly better. Not only does it deal damage while laying down the strike tiles, you actually get a bigger overall bonus per AP if you have any decent amount of red saved up. What would you rather do with 15 green AP - lay down 13 tiles that total 195 damage, or lay down six tiles for 240, with an extra 1040 damage on top, and still have 3 AP left over? And if you have 12 red AP then a single shot of Feral Slash creates enough strike tiles to give you a bigger damage bonus you'd get from than the 4* ability that costs 2.5 times as much. ****.

As far as red goes, the 4* attack is probably going to deal more damage when all is said and done, but it's way closer than it ought to be given that the 2* version is significantly cheaper. And destroying three rows can clear a lot of enemy special tiles...or a lot of yours. It's not a move you can aim very carefully, which limits the usefulness of the board-control effect.

Having been hit with 3 X-Force Red teamups today already, I can say that it packs a punch.

Spoit

papa07 wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Hell, compare him to his own 2* self:

(Figures for X-Force are from the wikia, blame them if they're off. Like hell I've got a fully covered 4* sitting around.)

Green:
X-Force: 13 Strike tiles at strength 15 for 15 green AP.
Astonishing: 1+(Red AP/3) strike tiles at strength 40, plus 520 damage, for 6 green AP.

Red:
X-Force: 2313 damage plus three destroyed rows for 15 AP.
Astonishing: 3175 damage, straight up, for 12 AP.

Aside from the ability to overwrite enemy special tiles, the 2* green is clearly better. Not only does it deal damage while laying down the strike tiles, you actually get a bigger overall bonus per AP if you have any decent amount of red saved up. What would you rather do with 15 green AP - lay down 13 tiles that total 195 damage, or lay down six tiles for 240, with an extra 1040 damage on top, and still have 3 AP left over? And if you have 12 red AP then a single shot of Feral Slash creates enough strike tiles to give you a bigger damage bonus you'd get from than the 4* ability that costs 2.5 times as much. ****.

As far as red goes, the 4* attack is probably going to deal more damage when all is said and done, but it's way closer than it ought to be given that the 2* version is significantly cheaper. And destroying three rows can clear a lot of enemy special tiles...or a lot of yours. It's not a move you can aim very carefully, which limits the usefulness of the board-control effect.

Having been hit with 3 X-Force Red teamups today already, I can say that it packs a punch.

Not relative to the AP. Hell, for 14 AP, patch will down pretty much anyone except for the 10k Health heroes

Unknown

From looking at recent design, anything that cost 15 AP should be game over moves. It should at least kill a guy.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

to actually buff him all they'd have to do is keep his powers the same cost(just follow me) but, do the following things to them: For Red, one simple change, make it generate AP, Green, buff the strike tiles to say....80/tile. so 80 X 13 = 1040 worth of strike tiles, which is slightly more than Patch, which is as it should be cause X-Force being a 4* his powers by all logic be more powerful than patches. For Yellow, make his healing like Patches, or just simply reduce the countdown tile to 2 or 1, and the max level to 4 or 3(as opposed to the ridiculous 7 turn at 5 yellow).

Unknown

Seriously, how many months has it been since it was originally announced that C.Mags, M.Hawkeye and X-Force were under review. 6? 8? It's ridiculous, it really is.

Clintman

D3 sees the suggestions of its playerbase the same way the US sees the Taliban - Terrorists, and we all know the US does not negotiate with terrorists. I suspect D3 sees these well thought out suggestions with revulsion that the sheep that play this game would seek to tell them their business.

Unknown

Clintman wrote:

D3 sees the suggestions of its playerbase the same way the US sees the Taliban - Terrorists, and we all know the US does not negotiate with terrorists. I suspect D3 sees these well thought out suggestions with revulsion that the sheep that play this game would seek to tell them their business.

We are now able to delete TU & them adding deadpool, so there is that


And what is more a lot of what goes on on this board is just ****, there are a lot of things we don't know, like how many ppl work on this game or if there are other games they are working on, how long it takes to write & test the code, rushed code could be why things get buggy, and a whole bunch of other factors I'm sure. And don't get me started on the f2p ppl who **** about p2w..to us it is a game to d3 it's their livelihood, and yes it would be smart for them to listen to their fans but it is hard to find the cherries through all the ****

Unknown

Clintman wrote:

D3 sees the suggestions of its playerbase the same way the US sees the Taliban - Terrorists, and we all know the US does not negotiate with terrorists. I suspect D3 sees these well thought out suggestions with revulsion that the sheep that play this game would seek to tell them their business.

And that's how almost every game company treats the fanbase, and they're almost always right, but the time they're wrong would completely ruin a game.

I remember reading a WoW dev saying that it'd be weird if players don't know the game better than they do because players outnumber them at least 1000 to 1. The problem is that very few devs recognize their limitation, and even if they do, picking out the useful stuff from the fanbase is hard. I remember a talk about Sid Meier about how the chance of an upset is same whether it happened once or best out of X. That is, if there's 10% chance 1 Spearman beats a 1 Battleship then there's also a 10% chance 10 Spearmen beating 10 Battleships and that's how the Civ engine works. This is unbelievably wrong and it's not even true (10 battleships would never lose to 10 spearmen even in Civ 1) but are you really going to tell Sid Meier he has no idea what he's talking about? And would anyone even believe you?

Unknown

Cmag is a priority because once you max blue it becomes a different game where you do nothing but look for 5-tile patterns. He's so powerful he actually breaks the way the game works.

Unknown

I have a plan. we need an x-force and two moonstones.
1. Collect yellow and black and make sure the enemy moonstone also is collecting black.
2. Play the infamous 7 countdown tile.
3. Let the enemy moonstone steal it with control shift.
4. Steal it back with your own control shift and it will only be a 2 turn countdown now!
5. ???
6. Sweet sweet healing finally comes in.
7. Profit

ladariusr1

I have a level 131 wolverine X force and he easily makes for one of the worst on my roster. We really need to team up and petition to get this guy balanced. I mean I have 2*s that can easily defeat him. It's outrageous. Please MPQ designers do us a service

Unknown

He's third on the list, so they will fix him. At the rate we're going, I'm guessing he's be done by September.*

*(of 2017)

ladariusr1

Lol 2017?? Are you serious?

Unknown

ladariusr1 wrote:

Lol 2017?? Are you serious?

No he isn't. 2017 is still too early.

Unknown

Upcoming boost for this guy is now announced, but still unclear when...IceIX mentioned "soon" and teased with X-force being the season reward.

I have X-force at 4/5/4, will probably still be happy with that.

IceIX

Since each of these changes are a little long and the conversation for each character is relatively self contained, I'm making a thread for each character containing the changes and reasoning for that character. Yes, this'll make the stickies area a little big for a bit until they go Live. And yes, this probably should be in Character Discussion, but since it's Patch Note related, it's staying here.


**** Wolverine (X-Force) ****

Ahh, the original poster child for the 4* rarity but really only as powerful as a 2*. Level 270 yet being beaten around by 166s without a chance to retaliate. He needed some help in all corners. First of all, we got him out of the tried and true Green/Red/Yellow area of all the damage dealers. Flip the Red to Black, making his color strengths pretty unique. Already, that gives him a niche. But without some work on the abilities, Wolvy isn't going to get a slot on anyone's team. We needed to fix that.

X-Force

The old version had a neat concept and fit well with his theme. Unfortunately, it was not only underpowered, but also didn't really match meta at higher levels. At the point where he'd start coming into play, special tiles will be appearing on the board more and more, making the tiles created by X-Force less plentiful. And the low Strike tile strength made it pretty weak to start. Couple that with an extremely high AP cost and this move was just not working. So, back to the drawing board. The idea of the ability is to mimic Wolverine's ongoing berserker rage. We still wanted the X shaped destruction, so that stayed. However, Strike tiles aren't berserker barrage style. We figured some direct damage would be better, and since we're not generating Strike tiles, we'd have Wolverine destroy the board a bit instead. Wolverine ramps up in damage hugely with his ability strengths, topping out at 1731 damage from a Level 5 ability at his base level. Then he blows up up to 15 tiles at once, causing some nice likely cascades. Still though, 15 AP is much too high for the ability, and 3441 damage with the ability use is a bit low to satisfy that cost. After some playtesting, the AP cost was brought all the way down to 8 Green. This put Wolverine pretty immediately in a situation where players facing him didn't want him around. Therefore, he's a good target for alpha strike consideration to take him out quickly. Which is very Wolverine.

Old

X-Force - Green 15 AP
Wolverine shreds, creating a 3x3 X-shaped pattern of Strike tiles centered on the selected tile's location. Only transforms basic color tiles.
New

X-Force - Green 8 AP
Wolverine unleashes his berserker rage, cutting with his adamantium claws. Deals 164 damage and destroys 5 tiles in a 3x3 X-shaped pattern. Does not generate AP.


Enraged Slash -> Surgical Strike

This ability wasn't in as bad of a way as the other two, but still felt pretty underpowered compared to everything else, especially with the high AP cost. With the ability changing to Black from Red, it also occasioned a rethink on exactly what this ability should do. X-Force is designed to be more of an assassin team to the X-Men's front liners. As such, this ability represents that side of it. Instead of a blast that takes out a large portion of the board, the ability now targets the AP that the enemies will go for most often. At higher levels, it'll also take out a large swath of the AP in that color in the enemy's possession. At max level, Wolverine even appropriates the AP that is gained from the board for his own team's use. This makes the ability one that you definitely don't want going off when facing him, as it can easily cripple an attack strategy while giving a well balanced enemy team just what they need to launch their own assault.

Old

Enraged Slash - Red 15 AP
Wolverine slashes the enemy, dealing 420 to the current target and shredding the selected tile's row.
New

Surgical Strike - Black 11 AP Wolverine attacks with ruthless precision, crippling his enemy's ability to retaliate. Destroys every tile in the enemy team's strongest color, dealing 32 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.

Recovery

Wolverine's Healing Factor pretty much makes him the hero he is. Able to shrug off anything and keep going, hitting him usually just makes him more angry. His old Recovery though didn't heal enough to keep this fiction up and hitting him worked just fine. The new Recovery fixes this in spades. The original idea for Recovery was that a long Cooldown but a huge heal would make a player that was savvy enough to protect their Countdown tiles could regularly give strong heals to Wolverine and keep him in battle longer. In practice, a 7 turn Countdown tile meant it would nearly never make it to activation so the value of the heal was meaningless. So a ~42% heal really meant 0% in most combat scenarios. Taking this healing timer down to 3 turns makes it much more manageable. But even at that lower value, that healing amount still doesn't mean much when an incoming attack can easily take out the remaining health Wolverine had. So the healing was raised at the higher levels of the ability to the point where a max leveled Wolverine can heal quite nearly to full. That Countdown tile quite simply cannot be ignored and must be destroyed. Ahh, but that's the trap. The second part of the ability is designed so that players have to consider what they're going to do about the tile. Letting it go off would be bad since Wolvy will be pretty much right back where he started the match. But matching it means that Wolverine gets angry. At max level, he blows up 9 tiles for 164 damage each when Recovery is matched. It's not a huge amount, but nothing to scoff at either, especially when that destruction will probably result in a cascade for some extra damage too. And at only 9 AP cost, another Countdown tile probably isn't far behind.

Old

Recovery - Yellow 10 AP
Wolverine starts the process of regeneration. Creates a 5 turn Countdown tile that heals 420 damage, and another 42 for every yellow AP.
New

Recovery - Yellow 9 AP
Wolverine's healing factor repairs his wounds, and he ferociously lashes out if interrupted. Places a 3-turn Yellow Countdown tile that heals for 1187 damage when activated. If the Countdown tile is matched, Wolverine destroys 6 random tiles, dealing 32 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.

Changes in full:
**** Wolverine (X-Force) ****

- Changed color strengths from Green/Red/Yellow to Black/Green/Yellow to match new ability colors - Altered abilities for better balance Old

X-Force - Green 15 AP
Wolverine shreds, creating a 3x3 X-shaped pattern of Strike tiles centered on the selected tile's location. Only transforms basic color tiles.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: 5x5 slash.
Level 3: Also affects Strike and Protect tiles.
Level 4: 7x7 slash.
Level 5: Affects all tile types.
Max Level: Damage increased by 15 per Strike tile
New

X-Force - Green 8 AP
Wolverine unleashes his berserker rage, cutting with his adamantium claws. Deals 164 damage and destroys 5 tiles in a 3x3 X-shaped pattern. Does not generate AP.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Deals 465 damage.
Level 3: Destroys 9 tiles in a 5x5 X-shaped pattern.
Level 4: Deals 1030 damage.
Level 5: Deals 1731, then destroys 15 tiles in three 3x3 X-shaped patterns.
Max Level: 3441 damage

Old

Enraged Slash - Red 15 AP
Wolverine slashes the enemy, dealing 420 to the current target and shredding the selected tile's row.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: +25% damage
Level 3: Slashes rows above and below the selected tile instead of one row.
Level 4: +25% damage
Level 5: Slashes three rows centered on the selected tile.
Max Level: 2313 damage
New

Surgical Strike - Black 11 AP Wolverine attacks with ruthless precision, crippling his enemy's ability to retaliate. Destroys every tile in the enemy team's strongest color, dealing 32 damage per tile. Does not generate AP. Level Upgrades Level 2: Deals 87 damage per tile. Level 3: Deals 137 damage per tile. Level 4: Also reduces enemy AP in their strongest color by 10. Level 5: Deals 265 damage per tile. Destroyed tiles now generate AP. Max Level: 522 damage per tile

Old

Recovery - Yellow 10 AP
Wolverine starts the process of regeneration. Creates a 5 turn Countdown tile that heals 420 damage, and another 42 for every yellow AP.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Reduces countdown to 3 turns.
Level 3: +20% base heal.
Level 4: +40% base heal.
Level 5: +300% base heal. Increases countdown to 7.
Max Level: Heals 4626HP and additional 153HP per yellow AP
New

Recovery - Yellow 9 AP
Wolverine's healing factor repairs his wounds, and he ferociously lashes out if interrupted. Places a 3-turn Yellow Countdown tile that heals for 1187 damage when activated. If the Countdown tile is matched, Wolverine destroys 6 random tiles, dealing 32 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Heals Wolverine for 1662 or deals 45 damage per tile.
Level 3: Heals Wolverine for 2137 or deals 58 damage per tile.
Level 4: Heals Wolverine for 3086 or deals 83 damage per tile.
Level 5: Heals Wolverine for 4985 or destroys 9 tiles and deals 83 damage per tile.
Max Level: Heals for 9989 or destroys 9 tiles and deals 164 damage per tile.

Unknown

Are the tiles destroyed by his green random?

How is the enemy's strongest color decided if they're all the same level? E.g Thor (red), Patch (green), and Magneto (blue) are all level 166. What color do you get?

TheHueyFreeman

Black seems like it has potential when you get to 5.

Sounds like 5/5/3

IceIX

Phantron wrote:

Are the tiles destroyed by his green random?

How is the enemy's strongest color decided if they're all the same level? E.g Thor (red), Patch (green), and Magneto (blue) are all level 166. What color do you get?

Random, yes. If there are multiple strengths, It goes by enemy placement then, same as your team figures out who attacks.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

New

Recovery - Yellow 9 AP
Wolverine's healing factor repairs his wounds, and he ferociously lashes out if interrupted. Places a 3-turn Yellow Countdown tile that heals for 1187 damage when activated. If the Countdown tile is matched, Wolverine destroys 6 random tiles, dealing 32 damage per tile. Does not generate AP.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Heals Wolverine for 1662 or deals 45 damage per tile.
Level 3: Heals Wolverine for 2137 or deals 58 damage per tile.
Level 4: Heals Wolverine for 3086 or deals 83 damage per tile.
Level 5: Heals Wolverine for 4985 or destroys 9 tiles and deals 83 damage per tile.
Max Level: Heals for 9989 or destroys 9 tiles and deals 164 damage per tile.

Jjosh wrote:

IceIX wrote:

X-Force is now as much a monster as Fury is. Don't let him heal. But don't let him not heal.

There's a reason we've got him as the Season reward.

Total shot in the dark, but by don't let him heal/not heal, does it mean that his CD heals for more, but if it gets matched away it does heavy damage to opponent? That'd be a cool concept. As long as it's not still a 7-turn CD of course

Called it!