Boss Rush Event: Info & Rewards *Updated

peanut_gallery

And adding insult to injury, after making her yellow the hardest cover to get in Boss rush, they add yet another blue for progression in PvE. D3 really really hates it's player base.

Jabrony_Geoff

Ive just spent the last 45 minutes going through some of the posts, wow, people are angry.
I particularly liked the post by
auralgami on page 32.
That is pure unadulterated anger.

There's not much more I can add as everythings been said in a huge number of the post.

I've decided to document my thoughts through the smileys available.

Level 1 :-
Level 2 :-
Level 3 :-
Level 4 :-
Level 5 :-

Level 6 :- quit

Fubuki

Round 8:

1st turn: get dealt 6000 damage
2nd turn: get dealt 10000+ damage (dunno because all i know is that it KO'd a full hp Black Widow and took what was left of PX in the process)
3rd turn: dont know, rage quit

And yellow is the cover i needed, thanks D3P

No more cash for this game, can i have my vip money back please?

Ludaa

Done after 0 wins in rd.7, that leaves two hops in pvp and some DDQ. Good job keeping me engaged this weekend, Demiurge!

I might have enjoyed this Boss Rush if I wasn't locked out for losing, and I had unlimited healthpacks to try different things.

AtlasAxe

"David wrote:

Moore"]*Update: 1:25 PM 10/14/16

Greetings, all.

The dev team wanted to let everyone know they have been reading your feedback and taking it into consideration. Here's word from Anthony at Demiurge:

"Hey everyone, We're trying a bunch of new stuff with the initial run of Boss Rush and we appreciate hearing your thoughts. We'll look at our data to see how people did and combine that with the feedback to help improve future runs of the event. Thanks for playing the event, and keep the feedback coming!"

Thank you.

I know people have kind of come at this sideways in the comments, but actually, it's explicit in this communication: we are D3's play testers. As someone else here said, maybe they are trying to test enough to make sure nothing's actually broken, but the actual 'how does this feel as a player' type of testing is us.

So...I'm not sure I have a problem with that as a practice. What I have a problem with is the lack of pre-communication on what is being asked of us. If you think about it - the recent changes to PVE, SCLs, etc. were all communicated to us well in advance, with a corresponding forum thread for feedback on the results. I like the results of those. The issue here is that it wasn't communicated in advance, and then the communication problem was ignored until late on a Friday when everyone was going home.

Now I know that D3 and Demiurge like anniversary events to be a surprise. Please try to learn from this and be prepared to actually actively communicate and participate here when you spring such a surprise.

P.S. You know your surprises are never a surprise, right? You know that smart people figure out what you're up to and it's spread throughout the player base in advance, right? Not saying what or how, but it's happening...

[Edit:] P.P.S. You should seriously be considering compensation, along the lines of the major awards of this event (Peggy covers, plural) to your player base who is sticking it out in this mess.

Jabrony_Geoff

People are angry.

Chipster22

simonsez wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

even some 3* players on round 6.

You say that as if you don't understand that scaling results in no advantage to better rosters in this event.

Actually, I was surprised that 3* players were complaining even though they reached level 6 only half way through the event. Should a level 3* player even expect to complete a boss event?

I agree, 4* and 5* players seldom seem to get an advantage from upgrading their rosters.

Stony

Wjohnson992 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

even some 3* players on round 6.

You say that as if you don't understand that scaling results in no advantage to better rosters in this event.

Orion wrote:

I never beat round 6 in 11 attempts, but I only got to Surfer once. And I was using 2 champion 5*s.

Bowgentle wrote:

When someone with a level 456 Surfer, 452 OML, 435 Phoenix and 28 champed 4*s can't beat round 6 of 8, something is very very wrong

Let me rephrase: You say that as if you don't understand that scaling makes this event easier for those 3* players...

It really doesnt.

It really does though. I'm not debating that you're getting tough scaling, we all are. However being a 3* (or even strictly 4 with no high 5's) gives you OPTIONS! I have a 454 SS/435 OML/390 PHX. Round 7 I'm facing a Banner with 105k! ONE HUNDRED **** K HEALTH! I can't use winfinite. I can't deny AP with Hood or Loki, I have three **** characters I can use, who get wiped every **** time! (Except once, extremely lucky board). Three shots at it and I'm out of Health Packs. That's not even mentioning the unlock nodes against three 350+ level heroes just to unlock the boss. I understand your frustrations, but don't act like you understand ours.

DubbaHuss

peanut_gallery wrote:

And adding insult to injury, after making her yellow the hardest cover to get in Boss rush, they add yet another blue for progression in PvE. D3 really really hates it's player base.

I don't think they hate us, they simply don't consider us, our progression through the game, what they've done in the past in terms of rewards, etc. Remember when they realeased ghost rider and they tried to to give us yellow xfw as the season sim reward instead? None of this surprises me, but they are more clueless than malicious (and probably a bit greedy too)

Kjempen

an1979 wrote:

I went into tryhard mode - just to see how sick later rounds are (and maybe grab that yellow)

However not only is this event TiNyKiTTy up! but as always this game stays buggy as hell!
(Of course making banners slowing down the game takes priority over fixing crashes and testing events... I bet those last 2 days were spent hard on new ones!)

Using Hulkfinite.

I got 30.000 (or maybe even 15.000) in round 7 for at least 3 times instead of 45.000
Points for one (or two) boss were not counted.
It seems that if you manage to make "no moves given to boss" you might get a fat NOTHING!

Before boss: 73.739


All 3 bosses killed +45.000
As it is counting down it should be: 73.739 - 45.000 = 28.739
However only 30.000 is deducted: 73.739 - 30.000 = 43.739


After boss ("outside): 43.739 where it should be 28.739


In the end I had to do about 4 more clears in round 7!

It seems you have to allow (both 2nd and 3rd) boss maybe one move near the end when you have ~30AP to immediately clean after him?

Guess I haven't been paying close enough attention, and many may have experienced this same problem, and it's slowing down progress. I wonder if there will be any compensation for this?

If the round rewards were adjusted and bugs fixed, and bosses powers/scaling toned down, and some better communication about the event in beforehand,then this could actually have been enjoyable. Even though the BFF pvp was broken in MMR for me and this boss rush event has several problems,thanks for something new at least. I enjoyed this anniversary more than last one at least.

spghttihead

What's gonna drive me nuts is that I can just see their compensation for this mess to be a few Boss Rush tokens. That's when I'm gonna lose it. Made it to Rd. 8 but am getting almost insta-killed by PHX. I don't need tokens, I need Peggy Yellow!

Blahahah

Vhailorx wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Feels weird being the only person that didn't hate this event in the slightest. In fact, I thoroughly enjoyed the event and I'm going to be out of round 6 and into round 7 soon.

My roster isn't even fully developed (don't go off of my signature, it's more developed than that), but I've had a great time with the event. It was challenging, but certainly not unfair. The bosses feel like BOSSES, not just glorified minion nodes. I cracked through level 5 of it without losing a single person, and level 6 I'm usually making it to SS and from there it's a coin flip because of attrition.

That's great news for you blahahah. Glad someone is having fun if most of the rest of us are not. What does your scaling look like? My round 6 bosses are level 409-412, and even when i do win, the matches take me 15 minutes or more each (plus subnodes). It's a real pain in the **** finding the time to do that sort of grind.

Sorry for the super late response. My scaling is the same, about 410-415 or so.

aesthetocyst

Stony wrote:

Wjohnson992 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

simonsez wrote:

You say that as if you don't understand that scaling results in no advantage to better rosters in this event.

...
Let me rephrase: You say that as if you don't understand that scaling makes this event easier for those 3* players...

It really doesnt.

It really does though.... I understand your frustrations, but don't act like you understand ours.

Argh. More infighting amongst players?

I'll say this for the benefit of those who haven't "enjoyed" the higher realms of scaling....

Match damage scales exponentially. And the upswing starts (slowly) at level 270. Past lvl 500 it's practically vertical.

The only reliable way to regular clear the boss waves in round 6 on is to employ a teams that can go winfinite by starting a feedback loop of AP collection, to both prevent the AI from taking a turn, and to generate enough damage to kill the bosses.

For players facing bosses at extreme levels, this means they literally can't use lower rarity character that aren't buffed. 90% of their roster is functionally locked out.

For instance, I am running Khan, in a desperate attempt to winfinite my way to some decent points and occasional wins. At my scaling, she can take 7 match-3 hits in rd 7***. I have to collect pink and she tanks pink. If the AI gets a match-5 or any kind of cascade in the first couple turns, she dies and I'm toast.

And my bosses are "only" lvl 470, with match damage in the 500's. Champed 5* players are seeing higher level bosses with match damage that's 2x higher. If they try running Khan (or any other 3* component to a winfinite combo), she's toast twice as fast, even if the AI doesn't get lucky. Therefore the 5* players are forced to do what they can with higher-rarity / buffed characters. Much stronger characters, but if they can't winfinite, they are doomed.

TL;DR — 3*-4* rosters played well will either wipe fast with few pts or win with winfinite (all or nothing!); 5* rosters will collect more points on partial clears, but wipe nearly every time (a whole lot of somethings is better than nothing?).

EDIT to add PS — Look at the alliance leaderboards. Most of the top scorers are not 5* players. Most of them are champ 3* and 4* players. And ya know what? I suspect this is exactly what the devs what. The top prizes going to effort as much as roster strength. They want winning to require an advanced roster, but they also don't want only super-advanced rosters to win.

__________________

*** And that's only because she is lvl 225. If not champed that high, she'd be toast quick.

killerkoala

Stony wrote:

It really does though. I'm not debating that you're getting tough scaling, we all are. However being a 3* (or even strictly 4 with no high 5's) gives you OPTIONS! I have a 454 SS/435 OML/390 PHX. Round 7 I'm facing a Banner with 105k! ONE HUNDRED tinykitty K HEALTH! I can't use winfinite. I can't deny AP with Hood or Loki, I have three tinykitty characters I can use, who get wiped every tinykitty time! (Except once, extremely lucky board). Three shots at it and I'm out of Health Packs. That's not even mentioning the unlock nodes against three 350+ level heroes just to unlock the boss. I understand your frustrations, but don't act like you understand ours.

after potentially chewing through 300k of health from the 3 bosses, ur prize is 45k towards the bar. if this ran like a regular boss battle all 3 bosses combined health should be 45k cause that is the credit. we should instead be getting 300k since that is how much it took to down all 3 them.

this designed is very flawed and should have been fixed after idea was presented as an event. there must have been at least a dozen people who saw this proposal and either didn't read into it or didn't care. i think they should play test every event from start to finish as a whole at every levels from guys fully stacked rosters, mid range rosters, noobs to see how it works. playing a couple early rounds with maxed out rosters and say mission accomplished is probably what they call play testing.

Esheris

Chipster22 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

even some 3* players on round 6.

You say that as if you don't understand that scaling results in no advantage to better rosters in this event.

Actually, I was surprised that 3* players were complaining even though they reached level 6 only half way through the event. Should a level 3* player even expect to complete a boss event?

I agree, 4* and 5* players seldom seem to get an advantage from upgrading their rosters.

For an anniversary (or any event really), should any player be locked out? What kind of game company alienates their player base like that? Everyone should be able to compete and have fun, so their game can grow in the process.

aesthetocyst

killerkoala wrote:

after potentially chewing through 300k of health from the 3 bosses, ur prize is 45k towards the bar. if this ran like a regular boss battle all 3 bosses combined health should be 45k cause that is the credit. we should instead be getting 300k since that is how much it took to down all 3 them.

Deciding to scale bosses individually to players' rosters necessitated disconnecting boss health from points earned. If they didn't, they would have to either scale the progressions to player's rosters as well, either dynamically or via tiers (and make those tiers forced, not elected), or expect players to be OK with higher level players to be able to complete rounds with fewer successful clears. If the scaling is working properly, the failure rate should be the same for all players regardless of roster strength, so the latter is a non-starter. Unless the scaling is broken. ANd players would revolt either way.

As-is, we are all receiving a %age of a set # of points, based on the %age of scaled boss health we are chewing thru. It's far. Conceptually at least.

Vhailorx

killerkoala wrote:

Stony wrote:

It really does though. I'm not debating that you're getting tough scaling, we all are. However being a 3* (or even strictly 4 with no high 5's) gives you OPTIONS! I have a 454 SS/435 OML/390 PHX. Round 7 I'm facing a Banner with 105k! ONE HUNDRED tinykitty K HEALTH! I can't use winfinite. I can't deny AP with Hood or Loki, I have three tinykitty characters I can use, who get wiped every tinykitty time! (Except once, extremely lucky board). Three shots at it and I'm out of Health Packs. That's not even mentioning the unlock nodes against three 350+ level heroes just to unlock the boss. I understand your frustrations, but don't act like you understand ours.

after potentially chewing through 300k of health from the 3 bosses, ur prize is 45k towards the bar. if this ran like a regular boss battle all 3 bosses combined health should be 45k cause that is the credit. we should instead be getting 300k since that is how much it took to down all 3 them.

this designed is very flawed and should have been fixed after idea was presented as an event. there must have been at least a dozen people who saw this proposal and either didn't read into it or didn't care. i think they should play test every event from start to finish as a whole at every levels from guys fully stacked rosters, mid range rosters, noobs to see how it works. playing a couple early rounds with maxed out rosters and say mission accomplished is probably what they call play testing.

The decoupling of boss health and round progress bars is because of the individual scaling. Stony is facing bosses with 105k; while 4* players get bosses with 50k health. If 1 hitpoint = 1 progress point, then higher level rosters would have an inherent advantage (even if their scaling were equally high) just because they play matches with larger health pools.

Stony: You are right that the pure 3* and even unboosted 4* ranks are basically non-viable given your scaling. but is AP suppression impossible? Perhaps against banner because he chains into that aoe so quickly. But in some other rounds, it seems like you might be able to use 5* + 5* + hood or something to suppress the ai.

And with regard to the options issue, this is isn't unique to the 5* player. Everyone has fewer options when they push up into a new tier of play. 5* players just have it worse because the power curve is so ridiculously high at levels 400+. It's almost like the gap between 4* and 5* power levels is too big, and demi has just been slapping some bandages on that open wound for 13 months with limited success. . .

Vhailorx

Esheris wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

even some 3* players on round 6.

You say that as if you don't understand that scaling results in no advantage to better rosters in this event.

Actually, I was surprised that 3* players were complaining even though they reached level 6 only half way through the event. Should a level 3* player even expect to complete a boss event?

I agree, 4* and 5* players seldom seem to get an advantage from upgrading their rosters.

For an anniversary (or any event really), should any player be locked out? What kind of game company alienates their player base like that? Everyone should be able to compete and have fun, so their game can grow in the process.

But remember, Demi/d3 have a game that forces players to roster new covers or lose them and charges money for new roster slots (so growing a player's roster makes Demi/d3 money; and they have told us that roster slots are a big source of revenue, at least pre-5* buy clubs). And yet they still only give out new release covers to 10% of their playerbase (plus the legions of people who pull that 0.1% lottery ticket and get a cover from token packs)! Despite the fact that a single cover is, by their own admission, effectively useless.

This sort of hard to explain reasoning is not a new phenomenon in MPQ. Remember that anniversary 2 tokens were actively worse than contemporary heroic tokens before player uproar caused a mid-anniversary odds revision.

Stony

Vhailorx wrote:

killerkoala wrote:

Stony wrote:

It really does though. I'm not debating that you're getting tough scaling, we all are. However being a 3* (or even strictly 4 with no high 5's) gives you OPTIONS! I have a 454 SS/435 OML/390 PHX. Round 7 I'm facing a Banner with 105k! ONE HUNDRED tinykitty K HEALTH! I can't use winfinite. I can't deny AP with Hood or Loki, I have three tinykitty characters I can use, who get wiped every tinykitty time! (Except once, extremely lucky board). Three shots at it and I'm out of Health Packs. That's not even mentioning the unlock nodes against three 350+ level heroes just to unlock the boss. I understand your frustrations, but don't act like you understand ours.

after potentially chewing through 300k of health from the 3 bosses, ur prize is 45k towards the bar. if this ran like a regular boss battle all 3 bosses combined health should be 45k cause that is the credit. we should instead be getting 300k since that is how much it took to down all 3 them.

this designed is very flawed and should have been fixed after idea was presented as an event. there must have been at least a dozen people who saw this proposal and either didn't read into it or didn't care. i think they should play test every event from start to finish as a whole at every levels from guys fully stacked rosters, mid range rosters, noobs to see how it works. playing a couple early rounds with maxed out rosters and say mission accomplished is probably what they call play testing.

Stony: You are right that the pure 3* and even unboosted 4* ranks are basically non-viable given your scaling. but is AP suppression impossible? Perhaps against banner because he chains into that aoe so quickly. But in some other rounds, it seems like you might be able to use 5* + 5* + hood or something to suppress the ai.

And with regard to the options issue, this is isn't unique to the 5* player. Everyone has fewer options when they push up into a new tier of play. 5* players just have it worse because the power curve is so ridiculously high at levels 400+. It's almost like the gap between 4* and 5* power levels is too big, and demi has just been slapping some bandages on that open wound for 13 months with limited success. . .

I was using Hood before 7. It's impossible now.

And I agree, I was just saying 5* has it worse. Which it sounds like you agree with.

DapperChewie

Vhailorx wrote:

This sort of hard to explain reasoning is not a new phenomenon in MPQ. Remember that anniversary 2 tokens were actively worse than contemporary heroic tokens before player uproar caused a mid-anniversary odds revision.

I'll give them this, the anniversary Vault was way better than the tokens last year. Lots of covers for me.