Simulator Basics part 2: Electric Boogaloo (Mar 21-30)

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

That may be your experience, but it isn't mine. I've seen levels go up by 50 on missions I haven't fought once. .

My experience is you only see the dramatic jump on the very last missions that any player can play on. Those ones that require you to unlock them by beating previous levels. They are worth the most points and most people will grind down to 1 point on each refresh.

Assuming you have the required characters for the 'essential' missions, you just rack up your points on those missions and skip the ones that everyone else is grinding down. Maybe do them once or twice and try to snag the 500ISO.

Impulse wrote:

Well, there's lots of reasons. Sims scales so dramatically you might want to unlock the nodes while they're easy. Then before the sub ends you can jump around and not risk getting stuck on a particularly hard node. As others mentioned, iso rewards. And not everyone wants to wait two days to play, some just want to play the game.

As long as you clear the last refresh, you're not hurting yourself. Only doing one clear before a sub ends is more about time efficiency than point maximization.

Judging by what people are writing, all you are doing is forcing yourself to fight (and win) more battles overall to keep up with the top end of your group, which in turn, is driving up your PvE scaling. It becomes a vicious circle.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

I'm not trying to get #1 (I'd have to quit my job); I'm trying to keep top 50. I have to join early or 1) missions become impossible and 2) I don't have enough time to fight all of them. I can only really play in evenings, so it is literally impossible for me to try to play optimally. I can play a mission or two in the morning, sometimes one or two at lunch, and that's it except for the evening.

Yep, that's the part I hate a lot, and some people like jozier fail to accept. To have a shot you really must be able to be around in proper time points. If you can it's really way less time spent in battles. But those who have can;t bend their real life to MPQ schedule suck bigtime, don't have a realistic shot at top and likely need to play more at worse times for worse points to even get cookies.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

It was more true in earlier PvE's, but not anymore. At worst, you might fight enemies 10-15 levels harder by waiting. Pretty insignificant.

The sims has among the most scaling in events from start to end because of its length. Maybe you're not seeing much for some reason, but that is not typical. I see nodes start at 30 and go 200+.

Unknown

But that's your experience playing the game. It can differ greatly from player to player. Just because it happens to one individual doesn't mean everybody is in the same boat.

Again for me, in the last sub i had no levels under 130 and some where 230. Does that mean everybody was grinding each node down to 1? Not necessarily, as others in our alliance had much easier nodes.

Unknown

I play for ISO so yes it matters. If my net gain is negative what is the point.

My scaling is reasonable and I just got mauled, 2 matches 5 health packs down, utterly ridiculous. The setup on these fights are all inane, goon plus spamable attacks on almost every node like ****...

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

That may be your experience, but it isn't mine. I've seen levels go up by 50 on missions I haven't fought once. .

My experience is you only see the dramatic jump on the very last missions that any player can play on. Those ones that require you to unlock them by beating previous levels. They are worth the most points and most people will grind down to 1 point on each refresh.

Assuming you have the required characters for the 'essential' missions, you just rack up your points on those missions and skip the ones that everyone else is grinding down. Maybe do them once or twice and try to snag the 500ISO.

Your experience doesn't square at all with mine. I've seen first nodes hit 190, and I don't have anybody even at 80th level yet. The essential nodes are where I'm getting most of my points, but there's 1400 ISO just in the first time bonuses on the other seven missions, 2800 for both sets, plus 2000 from the two big prizes, plus 12 more rewards that probably average 250 ISO each. And I'd also like to, you know, be able to play the game, not just fight the same three fights over and over again, especially when there's always at least one that just eats health packs.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Yep, that's the part I hate a lot, and some people like jozier fail to accept. To have a shot you really must be able to be around in proper time points. If you can it's really way less time spent in battles. But those who have can;t bend their real life to MPQ schedule suck bigtime, don't have a realistic shot at top and likely need to play more at worse times for worse points to even get cookies.

You'd need to play at proper time points with or without rubberbanding. You'd still need to clear the last refresh, and also, every other refresh. Unless you don't want refreshes and just want nodes to have infinite points. Somehow i doubt that woulr help people with trouble bending their schedule.

Unknown

TheUnwiseOne wrote:

've read loads of posts from people with sub 85 teams facing off against 230's.

I recall seeing a single 230 node -- in R1 of hard the one with just 3 goons at the end of the 3-chain. Obviously the easiest battle around so everyone played it over and over community-scaling it through the roof. (Didn't play it having better nodes and running out of time, guess it was well doable even in that state.)

By the end community scaling IS significant, adding at least 50 levels on the hard, more on select nodes -- and likely creating more contrast as the easiest ones at start gets most of it.

But on the special nodes the effect is less and my best advice is to play only those repeatedly, all the rest just once.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Judging by what people are writing, all you are doing is forcing yourself to fight (and win) more battles overall to keep up with the top end of your group, which in turn, is driving up your PvE scaling. It becomes a vicious circle.

I'm doing one clear, and my scaling still goes up +100 levels from start to when I play. You can very easy get scaled out of a sub without killing anything if you lack boosted characters.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

TheUnwiseOne wrote:

've read loads of posts from people with sub 85 teams facing off against 230's.

I recall seeing a single 230 node -- in R1 of hard the one with just 3 goons at the end of the 3-chain. Obviously the easiest battle around so everyone played it over and over community-scaling it through the roof. (Didn't play it having better nodes and running out of time, guess it was well doable even in that state.)

By the end community scaling IS significant, adding at least 50 levels on the hard, more on select nodes -- and likely creating more contrast as the easiest ones at start gets most of it.

But on the special nodes the effect is less and my best advice is to play only those repeatedly, all the rest just once.

All true but as mr.Grimm put it above,it would nice to be able to play the game,not have to pick specific nodes over and over again. That gets boring and annoying pretty quickly.

Unknown

Impulse wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Yep, that's the part I hate a lot, and some people like jozier fail to accept. To have a shot you really must be able to be around in proper time points. If you can it's really way less time spent in battles. But those who have can;t bend their real life to MPQ schedule suck bigtime, don't have a realistic shot at top and likely need to play more at worse times for worse points to even get cookies.

You'd need to play at proper time points with or without rubberbanding. You'd still need to clear the last refresh, and also, every other refresh. Unless you don't want refreshes and just want nodes to have infinite points. Somehow i doubt that woulr help people with trouble bending their schedule.

Yes, that is all parts of what I hate.

And we suggested several different alternatives that would make events fairly time-neutral. And while keeping "infinite" adding diminishing returns on the purely personal level. And scaling prizes along with the foes you fight, so keeping risk/reward ratio healthy for long too.

Unknown

I said it in another place but I think that if they removed the competitive aspects of PVE a lot of the more problematic elements would go away.

Unknown

For all those arguing for grinding to get progression awards, you are right a rubber-bander won't catch up with you 100% but they can get pretty darn close for a much much smaller time investment.

Last set of subs I did each mission once at about 16 hours to go then just hit the high pointers twice in the last hour. Ended up top 5 in both subs and I ended up top 5 in the main too. I won't get to the peak of points but unless the leader barely scratches that final progression award, I will likely get it too.

Plus this has helped keep scaling in check immensely for me. Despite rocking all 141s, my scaling is set to 60/60/60 and 69/69/69

As others have mentioned though, I'm not grinding out all the 500 iso awards but it's a fair trade for my sanity

Unknown

Impulse wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Yep, that's the part I hate a lot, and some people like jozier fail to accept. To have a shot you really must be able to be around in proper time points. If you can it's really way less time spent in battles. But those who have can;t bend their real life to MPQ schedule suck bigtime, don't have a realistic shot at top and likely need to play more at worse times for worse points to even get cookies.

You'd need to play at proper time points with or without rubberbanding. You'd still need to clear the last refresh, and also, every other refresh. Unless you don't want refreshes and just want nodes to have infinite points. Somehow i doubt that woulr help people with trouble bending their schedule.

Just spitballing a couple of ideas, I admit they have some obvious kinks to work out but nothing as glaring as "you MUST play at this time":

1) Have points regen (up to a certain cap) linearly instead of in stacks, with a constant point "drain" on each win (multiplied by whatever rubberbanding bonus). Doesn't completely solve the problem of "play late to win" but it at least means someone is penalized less if their schedule only allows playing time when stacks aren't full.
2) Have subs last 2.5 days, but a player can only play for up to 48 hours after their first completion, thus they can choose when their "ending time" is.

Unknown

Impulse wrote:

I'm doing one clear, and my scaling still goes up +100 levels from start to when I play. You can very easy get scaled out of a sub without killing anything if you lack boosted characters.

Ah, that part: of course you need boosted chars to remain competitive. That is integral part of the setup.

In this department I only want advance announcements. Just fail to see what would it hurt if expected buffs were announced a week ahead. Allowing people to prepare. It should even drive up attendance in tournaments and some sales. (Though we guessed most of the stuff well, and the latest tendency is quite clear: whoever you see in prizes will be the buff a week later. The latest release character is always an essential but with the increased cycle the prevoius ones are very likely too.)

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

I said it in another place but I think that if they removed the competitive aspects of PVE a lot of the more problematic elements would go away.

As I've said about as many times as Phantron has raged on Spidey (ok, maybe not THAT many), give everyone their first node completion scaling-free. Anyone who wants gets a chance at some node and progression rewards, and the people who want to get top placement rewards are the ones who get hit with hardcore fights.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Riggy wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

And given how stupidly, punishingly broken the healing system is

I played before bed until the health packs were gone and Punisher was dead. Set the phone down just before 11:30. Got to work this morning at 7:35, checked my phone and had to debate using a health pack on him since he still wasn't at full health.

Punishingly broken indeed.

Heh, just wait till you put Hulk to use. The fixed half point per sec rate is uber insane.

I know, right? For someone who's supposed to be indestructible, he sure takes his sweet **** time reconstructing himself.

Bacon Pants

Are we able to agree that the scaling makes absolutely no sense at all? There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it. Folks with lower leveled rosters are fighting opponents more difficult that I am. And somehow folks with all 141's are fighting trivial opponents. I've just come to accept this very second that I will never understand how scaling works.

Unknown

Bacon Pants wrote:

Are we able to agree that the scaling makes absolutely no sense at all? There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it. Folks with lower leveled rosters are fighting opponents more difficult that I am. And somehow folks with all 141's are fighting trivial opponents. I've just come accept this very second that I will never understand how scaling works.

Because scaling, like MMR, isn't based on your roster. It seems to be based on some alchemy that takes into account some selection of how many matches you've won, how fast you've won them, how much damage you dealt, what your hit points were, etc.

However the scaling is actually determined, since tanking isn't really effective in a PvE, the observed practice for avoiding scaling seems to just be "play as few battles as you possibly can"

Twysta

Playing as few battles as you can really doesn't seem to be working in my case