how loud do we need to complain about drop rates

huntly

With every set that comes out the posts about drop rates become more negative. They seem to find their place in every thread recently. To me it seems that the larger the overall card pool becomes the more it effects the RNG (random number generator) negatively [in both set drop rate and the library during matches].

I've seen JC say "We have systems currently being worked on to have secondary ways to gain cards. I can't divulge too much about it yet because it's not ready, but it is coming." in a post 2 weeks ago but there's no knowing what that will entail. I would love to spend money on this game, its better than paper magic for me because I have noone to play with, but with the price so high for a drop rate so low I'd rather buy a paper booster just to collect a guaranteed rare or better.

If nothing else they should change fat packs to include a guaranteed rare and big boxes to include a guaranteed mythic.

Mangus 73

I hear you. Surely people are spending less money and the devs are noticing this.
There are other issues being ignored also,
Multiple start times for events,
Nothing to spend your crystals on,
Playing quick battle for a random prize,
and it seems to most on the forums we are being largely ignored while they concentrate on new walkers and events to try and get some income. I'm all for spending money on the game I love to support it but we are not stupid and will not just throw it away but it seems that's what they expect from us.
This morning I opened one fat pack from the latest quick battle and two Sol boosters and not one single rare and only one uncommon I needed and that is why I won't spend another penny till they do something to improve the game for us. Why keep adding content when half of what we have is broken or glitchy anyway.
That's just my feelings and I'm sure others are having more luck but we can't all be imagining the rubbish drop rate.
Sort it d3 and we will be happy to spend but we rufuse to spend money on nothing!!!

jimilinho_

The main issue for me is there is no way to get a specific card. All I'm looking for is To the slaughter and from the floorboards to finish my zombie deck. However I can't win them, I can't buy them and I can't trade for them and that situation is ridiculous. I appreciate there is some reason for not allowing cards to be bought ( We don't want everyone playing Kiora with Crush, Exert Influence and Days Undoing!) but something has to change before I spend any more money on this game.

Ideally if QB rewarded a specific rare/mythic you could decide whether to play it or not (This is the case for marvel puzzle quest btw) It might be that the coalition rewards work something like this instead, I'm expecting that to be the next change during maintenance so we will see!

Barrelrolla

So, Friday I finished in top 10 qb, got a fat pack. During the weekend I finished top 25 in Shadows and Terrors and got another. Monday I finished top 10 in qb again and go a third one. Also, I got enough crystals to buy a Big Box.
I opened all of them today and I got 0 mythics and 4 rares - 2 duplicate ones, one of them was a 4th copy.
To summarize, that's:
1 Pack,
3 Fat Packs,
1 Big Box
and the results are:
0 Mythics
4 Rares (2 duplicates)
I think that's unacceptable.
A friend was with me while I was opening and he wanted to spend $30 on crystals to open a Big Box too, after me and when he saw my results he changed his mind.
Fix you RNG and drop rates!
EDIT: Forgot to mention that this was my 4th Big Box from SoI and at least 2 Fat Packs before that. And from all 4 Big Boxes I got 1 Mythic. 1! That's b******t!

andrewvanmarle

In addition to looking at drop rates I'd'really like the devs to look at reducing the amount of rare/mythic duplicates

It seems like some cards just have a greater chance for popping up:

by now I have quite a few mythics in triplicate, and got doubles in the same big box.

Maybe we could trade two duplicate mythics for one of choice? Even that would help....

Pqmtg-

andrewvanmarle wrote:

In addition to looking at drop rates I'd'really like the devs to look at reducing the amount of rare/mythic duplicates

It seems like some cards just have a greater chance for popping up:

by now I have quite a few mythics in triplicate, and got doubles in the same big box.

Maybe we could trade two duplicate mythics for one of choice? Even that would help....

I don't want to always be that guy, but in these threads it seems like no one else like to point out that getting duplicate and triplicate cards are an expected result of random draws.

For paper mtg players, this can't even be a new experience.

speakupaskanswer

Pqmtg- wrote:

andrewvanmarle wrote:

In addition to looking at drop rates I'd'really like the devs to look at reducing the amount of rare/mythic duplicates

It seems like some cards just have a greater chance for popping up:

by now I have quite a few mythics in triplicate, and got doubles in the same big box.

Maybe we could trade two duplicate mythics for one of choice? Even that would help....

I don't want to always be that guy, but in these threads it seems like no one else like to point out that getting duplicate and triplicate cards are an expected result of random draws.

For paper mtg players, this can't even be a new experience.

In a way, I agree with you because we shouldn't expect only to get new stuff from every pack (even less so only good cards because that doesn't work). On the other hand, if I open a box of paper MtG boosters, I know I will get at least 3-4 mythics and it's very unlikely they will be duplicates. And of course, I will definitely get a rare per boosters and also less duplicates than here. I'm not sure the comparison really works.

Mangus 73

Imagine this, in the magic card packing factory there is one mythic to go in each pack, you print ten copies of each one then put them in a bucket and shake it.
You then draw one card for each pack, random? Yes.
In games on your phone or computer random is an illusion. It is worked out using maybe an algorithm that is programmed by a human being and made and adjusted to set variables that the devs set.
Getting duplicates is fine cause if you got ten packs from the magic factory on a really bad day you might get ten copies of the same mythic. Its the amount that's the issue. At least at the factory you know you will get a mythic even if its one you already have. As of now there is no way to get a guaranteed mythic except buy one for cash, or finsh in first place in an event and good luck with that if you stay in Europe as the quick battle finish time is approx 3am depending on time zone and that is straight up bull.

Barrelrolla

Pqmtg- wrote:

For paper mtg players, this can't even be a new experience.

In MTG which is a Trading Card Game? Meaning, you can trade your duplicates?
And most probably you even need 4 copies, if it's something you really want.
Also, every pack in paper MTG has 10 commons, 4 uncommons and 1 rare or mythic rare, so at least you know you're always getting something.

Theros

as more card are released, the pack get diluted.
If this game has so form of trading, duplicates would not be an issue since you could exchange the extra copy for another card you don't have.
The probability of getting a rare or better I supposed is working as intended and that includes duplicates. There is also another layer which is the probability of getting a rare or better that is not duplicate. Since the game does not have an exchange system, I can conclude with certainty that most people who who buy packs do not want to get duplicates. who does?
From my experience with other card games, increasing the probability will not decrease duplicate acquisition. But like I've mentioned, one can trade a duplicate or smelt it for currency to forge another card in those games.
The only way to avoid dupes is to implement an algorithm that check existing card to avoid dupes.
I don't think they want to change the drop rate but provide some other ways to get cards.
Alternatively they can create 2 currencies, one involving real currency and the other in game currency. Cards obtained from real currency can be traded/exchanged.

Pqmtg-

Mangus 73 wrote:

Imagine this, in the magic card packing factory there is one mythic to go in each pack, you print ten copies of each one then put them in a bucket and shake it.
You then draw one card for each pack, random? Yes.
In games on your phone or computer random is an illusion. It is worked out using maybe an algorithm that is programmed by a human being and made and adjusted to set variables that the devs set.
Getting duplicates is fine cause if you got ten packs from the magic factory on a really bad day you might get ten copies of the same mythic. Its the amount that's the issue. At least at the factory you know you will get a mythic even if its one you already have. As of now there is no way to get a guaranteed mythic except buy one for cash, or finsh in first place in an event and good luck with that if you stay in Europe as the quick battle finish time is approx 3am depending on time zone and that is straight up bull.

This is not how pseudo random generators work. For all intents and purposes of a small set of necessary numbers, a properly seeded random generator will generate random numbers indistinguishable from real randomness.

The factory you describe is not random at all. That's how you're guaranteed a mythic/rare in each pack.

My comment is basically aimed at people who think randomness should not generate duplicate or triplicate mythics. Math says it absolutely should be expected.


You can also get a guaranteed mythic during the events now. And it's set at a rather convenient time for Europe, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about timezones.

glggwp

Pqmtg- wrote:

Mangus 73 wrote:

Imagine this, in the magic card packing factory there is one mythic to go in each pack, you print ten copies of each one then put them in a bucket and shake it.
You then draw one card for each pack, random? Yes.
In games on your phone or computer random is an illusion. It is worked out using maybe an algorithm that is programmed by a human being and made and adjusted to set variables that the devs set.
Getting duplicates is fine cause if you got ten packs from the magic factory on a really bad day you might get ten copies of the same mythic. Its the amount that's the issue. At least at the factory you know you will get a mythic even if its one you already have. As of now there is no way to get a guaranteed mythic except buy one for cash, or finsh in first place in an event and good luck with that if you stay in Europe as the quick battle finish time is approx 3am depending on time zone and that is straight up bull.

This is not how pseudo random generators work. For all intents and purposes of a small set of necessary numbers, a properly seeded random generator will generate random numbers indistinguishable from real randomness.

The factory you describe is not random at all. That's how you're guaranteed a mythic/rare in each pack.

My comment is basically aimed at people who think randomness should not generate duplicate or triplicate mythics. Math says it absolutely should be expected.


You can also get a guaranteed mythic during the events now. And it's set at a rather convenient time for Europe, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about timezones.

dupes r expected. but often the same dupe???

fox1342

glggwp wrote:

Pqmtg- wrote:

Mangus 73 wrote:

Imagine this, in the magic card packing factory there is one mythic to go in each pack, you print ten copies of each one then put them in a bucket and shake it.
You then draw one card for each pack, random? Yes.
In games on your phone or computer random is an illusion. It is worked out using maybe an algorithm that is programmed by a human being and made and adjusted to set variables that the devs set.
Getting duplicates is fine cause if you got ten packs from the magic factory on a really bad day you might get ten copies of the same mythic. Its the amount that's the issue. At least at the factory you know you will get a mythic even if its one you already have. As of now there is no way to get a guaranteed mythic except buy one for cash, or finsh in first place in an event and good luck with that if you stay in Europe as the quick battle finish time is approx 3am depending on time zone and that is straight up bull.

This is not how pseudo random generators work. For all intents and purposes of a small set of necessary numbers, a properly seeded random generator will generate random numbers indistinguishable from real randomness.

The factory you describe is not random at all. That's how you're guaranteed a mythic/rare in each pack.

My comment is basically aimed at people who think randomness should not generate duplicate or triplicate mythics. Math says it absolutely should be expected.


You can also get a guaranteed mythic during the events now. And it's set at a rather convenient time for Europe, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about timezones.

dupes r expected. but often the same dupe???

DO the maths. A proper RNG will give a normal distribution. Just like rolling two sixes on a pair of dice, will come up on average once in 36 rolls, but might happen twice in a row.. If you roll hundreds of times you can work out how close to normal your cards are.

You need to know, the total number of mythics available, the mythic drop rate, and the number of cards you've opened. Compare theoretical number with your actual hand, and you'll see how close it is.

Mangus 73

Pqmtg- wrote:

Mangus 73 wrote:

Imagine this, in the magic card packing factory there is one mythic to go in each pack, you print ten copies of each one then put them in a bucket and shake it.
You then draw one card for each pack, random? Yes.
In games on your phone or computer random is an illusion. It is worked out using maybe an algorithm that is programmed by a human being and made and adjusted to set variables that the devs set.
Getting duplicates is fine cause if you got ten packs from the magic factory on a really bad day you might get ten copies of the same mythic. Its the amount that's the issue. At least at the factory you know you will get a mythic even if its one you already have. As of now there is no way to get a guaranteed mythic except buy one for cash, or finsh in first place in an event and good luck with that if you stay in Europe as the quick battle finish time is approx 3am depending on time zone and that is straight up bull.

This is not how pseudo random generators work. For all intents and purposes of a small set of necessary numbers, a properly seeded random generator will generate random numbers indistinguishable from real randomness.

The factory you describe is not random at all. That's how you're guaranteed a mythic/rare in each pack.

My comment is basically aimed at people who think randomness should not generate duplicate or triplicate mythics. Math says it absolutely should be expected.


You can also get a guaranteed mythic during the events now. And it's set at a rather convenient time for Europe, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about timezones.

Erm My comment wasn't aimed at you at all or I would have quoted you like you have quoted my comment and to answer you my point was about copies of cards and in the case I described the mythic you get would be a random one.

Mikeymike

speakupaskanswer wrote:

In a way, I agree with you because we shouldn't expect only to get new stuff from every pack (even less so only good cards because that doesn't work). On the other hand, if I open a box of paper MtG boosters, I know I will get at least 3-4 mythics and it's very unlikely they will be duplicates. And of course, I will definitely get a rare per boosters and also less duplicates than here. I'm not sure the comparison really works.

In addition to this:
- Duplicate mythics/etc in paper magic is often a good thing since you need 4 physical copies to max it out in your deck. In MTGPQ you only need 1 copy of a given card.
- If you get a mythic/rare you don't want, it's extremely easy to trade it or sell it in the secondary market. MTGPQ has no such market, and only offers the ability to sell the duplicates off for often useless Runes.

Pqmtg-

fox1342 wrote:

DO the maths. A proper RNG will give a normal distribution. Just like rolling two sixes on a pair of dice, will come up on average once in 36 rolls, but might happen twice in a row.. If you roll hundreds of times you can work out how close to normal your cards are.

You need to know, the total number of mythics available, the mythic drop rate, and the number of cards you've opened. Compare theoretical number with your actual hand, and you'll see how close it is.

To add to that, you can do a quick estimate just by looking at your collection. Does it look like a normal distribution? If you're not getting dupes, it will actually look rigged.

You expect roughly a third of your cards to be dupes, and if you have enough dupes, a third of your dupes to be triplicate.

Upstartes

I don't like to complain about the drop rates. I try to just accept the way the game works and make my decisions accordingly.

But...

Three things conspire to make duplicates in this game much more frustrating than in paper magic: 1) You can't trade. 2) A duplicate has no value in the game (runes don't do anything for me, as all my PWs are maxed out). 3) Rares and Mythics are more "rare", because you don't get one in every pack. I don't get upset with anyone in particular when I get a rare or mythic duplicate, but I do get kind of upset in general. In the past it has made me kick myself for wasting crystals. I only buy Big Boxes now because at least with that purchase I'm guaranteed to get a rare. Though that could still be a duplicate...

Side note to the devs, the above situation makes me loathe to spend actual money to get packs of cards in this game. The risk of feeling that frustration after spending money (as opposed to grinding for crystals) is too great for me. So when I say I only "buy" big boxes, I only buy them with crystals that I collect from playing. i.e. I'm not putting any money into the game.

So, I won't say that the way the card drops work is "wrong", per se. But the devs should be aware that it causes the above effects with this particular customer, and probably with others.

Shipwreck

Upstartes wrote:

Three things conspire to make duplicates in this game much more frustrating than in paper magic: 1) You can't trade. 2) A duplicate has no value in the game (runes don't do anything for me, as all my PWs are maxed out). 3) Rares and Mythics are more "rare", because you don't get one in every pack. I don't get upset with anyone in particular when I get a rare or mythic duplicate, but I do get kind of upset in general. In the past it has made me kick myself for wasting crystals. I only buy Big Boxes now because at least with that purchase I'm guaranteed to get a rare. Though that could still be a duplicate...

Side note to the devs, the above situation makes me loathe to spend actual money to get packs of cards in this game. The risk of feeling that frustration after spending money (as opposed to grinding for crystals) is too great for me. So when I say I only "buy" big boxes, I only buy them with crystals that I collect from playing. i.e. I'm not putting any money into the game.

So, I won't say that the way the card drops work is "wrong", per se. But the devs should be aware that it causes the above effects with this particular customer, and probably with others.

Exactly. The drop rate isn't too bad considering all the crystals we get from the events, but it'd be nice if we got something better than ruins for duplicates. Besides, you can get more ruins in 1 game of quick battle than you do from a rare.

I also see no point in spending money on a fat pack without a guaranteed rare.

Barrelrolla

Come on, you can't tell me that after 4 big boxes and 5 fat packs all I get is 1 mythic.
This is not normal.
And 4 Avacyn Judgement abd 3 Brain in a Jar.
I guess I'll miss on the SoI Mythics, because there is no way I am spending anymore crystals on packs, better save them for planeswalkers, at least that way I'm not gambling and I know what I'll get.
And forget about spending money on this game. If the reason for the low drop rate is that we can earn crystals easier, then lower the pricess. I am not gonna spend so much money for a big box when I'm gonna get just one duplicate rate.

Developers should realise that higher drop rates and options for getting the cards you want will only increase their profit.
I was so close to quitting the game, then OGW dropped and there were so many ways to earn crystals and big boxes had a bonus pack with a guaranteed rare and crystal prizes were lowered, I started playing again, bought crystals for 2 big boxes and used the crystals from the event for planeswalkers.
I was earning something for the time and money spent on the game.
But since SoI dropped I've received just a bad of *****, I am not happy and I don't feel good about the game.
If hearthstone had the same mechanic it wouldn't be popular.
Every card you open should be meaningful in one way or another, bringing you closer to the cards you want. That's normal progression for a game and the players feel good when they are rewarded and they progress.

James13

Suggestion:

Card shop. Allow the purchase of individual cards for either crystals or cold hard cash. Crystal cost would be at a premium to make boxes still an attractive option.

A general marketplace to trade/sell your own cards might be an interesting idea, but probably WAY too ambitious for a mobile game like this. Not to mention it would unintentionally punish those of us like me who have cashed in duplicate cards for runes already.

Just a thought.

Shadow_Wraith

It used to be that way with the fat packs and big boxes. I cant remember if it stopped with the bfz packs but I remember buying big boxes and after all cards were drawn, a single cars could appear and it was a rare/mythic depending on the fat pack/ big box purchased. I would love to see this as well as packs puchased through runes as well again.