From Undergrowth Champion to Runaway Carriage[Merged Topic]

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  • Mcjordan
    Mcjordan Posts: 82 Match Maker
    Rootbreaker wrote:
    Hmm, I haven't run into this yet. Let's see what the decks I'm running in NoP have in them that could deal with it...

    Kiora + Garruk - The Great Aurora
    Koth - Void Winnower removes defensive abilities
    Sarkhan - Fleshbag Maruader can kill hexproof creatures
    Gideon - Veteran Warleader can block - this deck is pretty dead to carriage + rogue's passage + defender ability. Maybe I should throw a winnower or rogue's passage or something in there.


    Got it, acquire all rares and mythics across all planeswalkers so I can play around a colorless uncommon.

    I see where you're coming from, there are ways to play around some of the combos. I don't think it should be nerfed into being unplayable, but as someone else suggested, maybe change the language to where it loses prevent damage when blocking as well.
  • Rootbreaker
    Rootbreaker Posts: 396
    span_argoman wrote:
    Rootbreaker wrote:
    Hmm, I haven't run into this yet. Let's see what the decks I'm running in NoP have in them that could deal with it...

    Kiora + Garruk - The Great Aurora
    Koth - Void Winnower removes defensive abilities
    Sarkhan - Fleshbag Maruader can kill hexproof creatures
    Gideon - Veteran Warleader can block - this deck is pretty dead to carriage + rogue's passage + defender ability. Maybe I should throw a winnower or rogue's passage or something in there.
    Just a note, Void Winnower doesn't work against True-Faith Censer as Runaway Carriage will regain Vigilance (if it works the same way as Knightly Valor) after the swap-around.
    Good to know. I've got demolish in that deck too, as well as lots of gem smashing, so hopefully I can prevent them from having a support that continually gives a block ability.
  • Rootbreaker
    Rootbreaker Posts: 396
    Mcjordan wrote:
    Rootbreaker wrote:
    Hmm, I haven't run into this yet. Let's see what the decks I'm running in NoP have in them that could deal with it...

    Kiora + Garruk - The Great Aurora
    Koth - Void Winnower removes defensive abilities
    Sarkhan - Fleshbag Maruader can kill hexproof creatures
    Gideon - Veteran Warleader can block - this deck is pretty dead to carriage + rogue's passage + defender ability. Maybe I should throw a winnower or rogue's passage or something in there.


    Got it, acquire all rares and mythics across all planeswalkers so I can play around a colorless uncommon.

    I see where you're coming from, there are ways to play around some of the combos. I don't think it should be nerfed into being unplayable, but as someone else suggested, maybe change the language to where it loses prevent damage when blocking as well.
    Yeah, I was just thinking out loud about my personal situation. But yeah, I agree that it seems like a overly powerful combination if it goes off. It's kind of hilarious that it's an unplayable paper magic card that they did this to.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fleshbag Marauder doesn't kill hexproof creatures.

    And is Void Winnower the best that Koth has got? I haven't got one of those!
  • soultwist
    soultwist Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    shteev wrote:
    Fleshbag Marauder doesn't kill hexproof creatures.

    And is Void Winnower the best that Koth has got? I haven't got one of those!

    Flying, Menace, Seismic Elemental, and gem destruction. Or add Rogue's Passage

    I don't think Void Winnower will work as it will lose its status for one turn but then get it back the next. Some buffs on the Carriage and Winnower is gone after that.
  • Rootbreaker
    Rootbreaker Posts: 396
    shteev wrote:
    Fleshbag Marauder doesn't kill hexproof creatures.

    And is Void Winnower the best that Koth has got? I haven't got one of those!
    I remember it doing so from when I was doing the Nissa heroic encounter that started with Gaea's Revenge, but it's been a while since I've done that so it might have changed or I might be misremembering. Theoretically I could also play a bunch of dragons and then ultimate to get past the carriage if I had enough time.

    You can always play unblockable cards like sekeleton key or rogue's passage yourself.
  • soultwist
    soultwist Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    This looks to be the solution

    Hedron Blade
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rootbreaker wrote:
    shteev wrote:
    Fleshbag Marauder doesn't kill hexproof creatures.

    And is Void Winnower the best that Koth has got? I haven't got one of those!

    I remember it doing so from when I was doing the Nissa heroic encounter that started with Gaea's Revenge, but it's been a while since I've done that so it might have changed or I might be misremembering.

    Hexproof has gone through some weird changes, and in general, now, is immune to effects which say 'your first creature', even though, as a MTG player, you might expect those kinds of effects to be considered untargetted.

    For example, If I have 2 creatures, and my first one has hexproof, your Suppression Bonds will now Disable my second creature.
  • jimilinho_
    jimilinho_ Posts: 292
    shteev wrote:
    Rootbreaker wrote:
    shteev wrote:
    Fleshbag Marauder doesn't kill hexproof creatures.

    And is Void Winnower the best that Koth has got? I haven't got one of those!

    I remember it doing so from when I was doing the Nissa heroic encounter that started with Gaea's Revenge, but it's been a while since I've done that so it might have changed or I might be misremembering.

    Hexproof has gone through some weird changes, and in general, now, is immune to effects which say 'your first creature', even though, as a MTG player, you might expect those kinds of effects to be considered untargetted.

    For example, If I have 2 creatures, and my first one has hexproof, your Suppression Bonds will now Disable my second creature.

    There's definitely a serious problem with Hexproof, cards such as Fleshbag Marauder and kindly stranger/demon witch should be surely be killing creatures with Hexproof. I can't believe it's functioning as its meant to right now. Really hope it's an accidental bug which could be fixed. Certainly no fun playing against non-interactive cards
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,260 Chairperson of the Boards
    soultwist wrote:
    madwren wrote:
    That's why it's good to play non-targeting spells, though.

    I like when things shift. It stimulates creativity and is more of a challenge when you suddenly have to find answers to things.

    What non targeting spells are going to get around Prevent Damage?

    Blue board clears/bounces
    Languish or Eyeblight Massacre in black
    Any color's defender or reach on their own critters (and True-Faith Censer is an uncommon colorless source of vigilance)
    Red has flying and menace--only green opponents can give it reach
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    soultwist wrote:
    This looks to be the solution

    Hedron Blade

    Won't work because Carriage has prevent damage. Death touch won't trigger. I've seen it in action firsthand.
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    For those using Carriage, tragic arrogance can be used to keep it and a second creature alive on your side while bringing opponent's side down to one creature.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gideon 1's first ability seems like a problem. Suddenly, all those creatures that just have Defender and not Reach don't look so good.
  • tracerbullet2
    tracerbullet2 Posts: 2
    I just played against a Gideon 1 with my Chandra deck. He played the Carriage then used his first ability to give it flying and vigilance. Had to quit the battle since there were no cards in my deck that could beat that. I really hope the devs remove prevent damage from this card, because as it is now it is far too easy to make it unbeatable against most decks.
  • HomeRn
    HomeRn Posts: 330 Mover and Shaker
    tracerbullet2 wrote:
    I just played against a Gideon 1 with my Chandra deck. He played the Carriage then used his first ability to give it flying and vigilance. Had to quit the battle since there were no cards in my deck that could beat that. I really hope the devs remove prevent damage from this card, because as it is now it is far too easy to make it unbeatable against most decks.
    An unblockable Carriage is literally immune to literally EVERYTHING red can throw at it AFAIK - that is unless the Carriage has berserker (which is highly unlikely)... and just one reason why the Carriage needs a serious nerf!
  • shroompants
    shroompants Posts: 14
    Runaway Carriage + Haunted Cloak

    No seriously, I have it in every deck. Super fair
    11 mana for an indestructible blocker in any deck.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been playing since last year, so I've got a pretty good collection of cards, and all my potential answers to an RC buffed by Gideon 1 are terrible cards... Skyraker Giant, Boggart Brute, and Shatterskull Recruit. My Mirrorpooled Akoum Phoenix? Not so much.

    I can trample through it, but it's going to kill those tramplers quickly.
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
    The carriage is broken.

    Rogue passage/helm of Gods+gideon(1) first ability pretty much ends the game.

    It is everything the undergrowth champion wishes it was.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    The other thing about this shift in the meta-game is of course that my primary mode of play is now Events, rather than QB. When UC was dominant I could stick to just playing colors which could deal with him. PvP Events make you play with planeswalkers of every color, forcing you to field decks that have no good cards to play vs RC.
  • Zelandoni
    Zelandoni Posts: 25
    Veteran Warleader doesn't seem to count, when it blocks Runaway Carriage. I've had multiple Warleaders die to Carriage. Maybe the first strike is messing up the trigger? It's pretty frustrating, though.

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