***** The Hulk (Bruce Banner) *****

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Comments

  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    This guy plus goblin = very very long fight. Banner going back and forth between hulk mode and having his tile protected is almost like infinite health
  • Blahahah
    Blahahah Posts: 738 Critical Contributor
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    This guy plus goblin = very very long fight. Banner going back and forth between hulk mode and having his tile protected is almost like infinite health
    Not to mention Goblin can rig up green tiles to blow, making Banner's passive more likely to trigger.
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    Cthulhu wrote:
    Updated, this was a complex character and I will have answers on what happens when he's downed with no team. I will be out of office tomorrow, but will come back and answer questions asap Thursday!
    When you get back, please try to answer the following consolidated list of questions (updated):

    1. How much health does the Hulk have at various levels?
    2. What happens to Bruce's health on return from being the Hulk - same as before his transformation?
    icon_nobody.pngAnswered, "Yes".
    3. On second and subsequent transformations, does Hulk come out at his full health again (whatever that may be)?
    icon_nobody.pngAnswered, "Yes".
    4. What happens when Hulk is downed as the last character standing?
    icon_nobody.pngAnswered, "Bruce comes back".
    5. Does Hulk's green Smash power do 5k or 9k damage to the enemy team at L450?
    6. The blue passive as it's currently listed in the first post says it changes 2 tiles at 3 covers and 1 tile at 4-5 covers at max level - a typo?
    7. Does Bruce's match damage numbers change to favor Green/Red when transformed to be the Hulk?
    8. Which is the level of the abilities for red and green, the same as purple? Or they don't have level?
    9. Does hulk spend the green when he transforms?
    10. Does the Hulk form have the same max health?
    11. Does the Hulk form have the same tile damages?
    12. Is the transform countdown tile always purple?
    13. Do the passive matches give AP for the extra tiles in line destruction?
    14. If the passive match would normally be done by another character (because their tile damage would be worth more) does it still go with the Hulk's damage?
    15. How many of Banner Hulk's powers will have screen shake?


    Everyone, please copy and add more questions as required. Let's keep this easy for Cthulhu!
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,332 Chairperson of the Boards
    With this I don't mean to be dismissive, or offensive, not even criticising, just trying to be practical: I'm thankful that Cthulhu takes the time to do this, but wouldn't it be better to get the character stats straight from one of demiurge's developers? Someone who doesn't have to test the character all on his own to get the numbers and then attempt niche occurrences or chase the designer whenever questions arise? A person who helped design and test the character and knows it intimately would be much more familiar with it by principle.
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    Pylgrim wrote:
    ... wouldn't it be better to get the character stats straight from one of demiurge's developers? ...
    That would make sense IMHO, but, there are often comments and questions about new characters and reading through all of those would take time away from a developer's actual job (and be outside their job description).

    Also [massive generalization coming up] many coders have trouble stringing three words together in English, so finding a developer who can communicate clearly may not be a trivial task - and such a person is probably already lumped with more than their fair share of reporting and documentation tasks.

    All speculation, though. We have what we have, and I appreciate Cthulhu's efforts. The commute from R'lyeh must take hours each day - even by air!
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,581 Chairperson of the Boards
    Melevorn wrote:
    Pylgrim wrote:
    ... wouldn't it be better to get the character stats straight from one of demiurge's developers? ...
    That would make sense IMHO, but, there are often comments and questions about new characters and reading through all of those would take time away from a developer's actual job (and be outside their job description).

    Also [massive generalization coming up] many coders have trouble stringing three words together in English, so finding a developer who can communicate clearly may not be a trivial task - and such a person is probably already lumped with more than their fair share of reporting and documentation tasks.

    All speculation, though. We have what we have, and I appreciate Cthulhu's efforts. The commute from R'lyeh must take hours each day - even by air!

    I think Pylgrim was suggesting that the devs supply the correct stats for Cthulhu to verify and pass onto us rather than expecting a dev to be passing on the details.
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2016
    https://youtu.be/OJ4TDaOY6Lo

    You can watch my video. Couple things to note:

    I only used him at 3/5/5. His health when transformed was about 21 or 24k, can't remember. His match damage became only high for red and green after transforming. It became higher than even OML match damage. His green did 8k damage when transformed. Now I have no clue what to believe about his green damage or what it is based on.

    Edit:

    Oops, I realized later that he also gets purple match damage after transforming. Also, sorry, I cut off the last 5 minutes of my video discussing his power better. Somethings wrong with my recording software. Sorry. I cut out discussion about ranking him with other 5 stars. I think he is below OML and GG because of lower damage output, but his transformation ability can be so annoying, he is better than even Phoenix, who has to die before transforming and will always be left for last in PvP. Leave Hulk for last, and he will have enough green saved up to transform everytime he dies.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    https://youtu.be/OJ4TDaOY6Lo

    You can watch my video. Couple things to note:

    I only used him at 3/5/5. His health when transformed was about 21 or 24k, can't remember. His match damage became only high for red and green after transforming. It became higher than even OML match damage. His green did 8k damage when transformed. Now I have no clue what to believe about his green damage or what it is based on.

    great explanation of the character's mechanics; thanks for the video.

    Seems like Banner might be be a good defensive character (to the extent that defense can be good in this game), depending on how hard it is to drop his 41k health quickly. If the current PVP A teams can pump out 41k damage in the first 4 or 5 turns, then Banner isn't much of a threat. But if he can't be downed quickly, then the risk of eating that 8k AOE once or twice goes up significantly. It would suck to get trapped by an opposing banner/hulk cycle at the end of a final shield-hop match.
  • ThatOneGuyjp189512
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 Posts: 543 Critical Contributor
    When you get back, please try to answer the following consolidated list of questions (updated):

    1. How much health does the Hulk have at various levels? 41,537 as Banner, Hulk's is 24,048
    2. What happens to Bruce's health on return from being the Hulk - same as before his transformation?
    icon_nobody.png Answered, "Yes".
    3. On second and subsequent transformations, does Hulk come out at his full health again (whatever that may be)?
    icon_nobody.png Answered, "Yes".
    4. What happens when Hulk is downed as the last character standing?
    icon_nobody.png Answered, "Bruce comes back".
    5. Does Hulk's green Smash power do 5k or 9k damage to the enemy team at L450? 8411 at 450
    6. The blue passive as it's currently listed in the first post says it changes 2 tiles at 3 covers and 1 tile at 4-5 covers at max level - a typo?
    7. Does Bruce's match damage numbers change to favor Green/Red when transformed to be the Hulk? Yes
    8. Which is the level of the abilities for red and green, the same as purple? Or they don't have level?
    9. Does hulk spend the green when he transforms?
    10. Does the Hulk form have the same max health?
    11. Does the Hulk form have the same tile damages? no, Red becomes strongest at 547 level 450, purple is 478
    12. Is the transform countdown tile always purple?
    13. Do the passive matches give AP for the extra tiles in line destruction?
    14. If the passive match would normally be done by another character (because their tile damage would be worth more) does it still go with the Hulk's damage?
    15. How many of Banner Hulk's powers will have screen shake?
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:
    When you get back, please try to answer the following consolidated list of questions (updated):

    1. How much health does the Hulk have at various levels? 41,537 as Banner, Hulk's is 24,048
    2. What happens to Bruce's health on return from being the Hulk - same as before his transformation?
    icon_nobody.png Answered, "Yes".
    3. On second and subsequent transformations, does Hulk come out at his full health again (whatever that may be)?
    icon_nobody.png Answered, "Yes".
    4. What happens when Hulk is downed as the last character standing?
    icon_nobody.png Answered, "Bruce comes back".
    5. Does Hulk's green Smash power do 5k or 9k damage to the enemy team at L450? 8411 at 450
    6. The blue passive as it's currently listed in the first post says it changes 2 tiles at 3 covers and 1 tile at 4-5 covers at max level - a typo?
    7. Does Bruce's match damage numbers change to favor Green/Red when transformed to be the Hulk? Yes
    8. Which is the level of the abilities for red and green, the same as purple? Or they don't have level?
    9. Does hulk spend the green when he transforms?
    10. Does the Hulk form have the same max health?
    11. Does the Hulk form have the same tile damages? no, Red becomes strongest at 547 level 450, purple is 478
    12. Is the transform countdown tile always purple?
    13. Do the passive matches give AP for the extra tiles in line destruction?
    14. If the passive match would normally be done by another character (because their tile damage would be worth more) does it still go with the Hulk's damage?
    15. How many of Banner Hulk's powers will have screen shake?

    Changes: 5 depends on how many covers you have in purple. At 3 covers it only does 5608 damage. At 4 covers it does 6542.
    6 is wrong, it goes from 1 at 3 covers to 2 at 4 and 5 covers.
    7 he still keeps purple as well as getting green and red.
    8 is tied to 5 since he only has one ability after transforming.
    9 is no.
    10 was already answered in 1.
    12 The transform tile is random.
    13 no.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    https://youtu.be/OJ4TDaOY6Lo

    You can watch my video. Couple things to note:

    I only used him at 3/5/5. His health when transformed was about 21 or 24k, can't remember. His match damage became only high for red and green after transforming. It became higher than even OML match damage. His green did 8k damage when transformed. Now I have no clue what to believe about his green damage or what it is based on.

    Edit:

    Oops, I realized later that he also gets purple match damage after transforming. Also, sorry, I cut off the last 5 minutes of my video discussing his power better. Somethings wrong with my recording software. Sorry. I cut out discussion about ranking him with other 5 stars. I think he is below OML and GG because of lower damage output, but his transformation ability can be so annoying, he is better than even Phoenix, who has to die before transforming and will always be left for last in PvP. Leave Hulk for last, and he will have enough green saved up to transform everytime he dies.

    Thaaaaanxs icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Well it looks like he goes to the kill him as fast as you can group. With OML and PH in the leave for last, I guess it is better that he goes to that group.

    And I said it before he is the ultimate tank, you should always keep 6 green, so he can transform, and he is going to be super annoying. I think he is what SS should have been (this is why I have always said that SS blue should be cheaper or heal more).
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 693 Critical Contributor
    Thanks for the video!
    It answered most of my questions.
    Tile damages are different. At level 450, Red 554, Green 547, Purple 478.
    Passive matches are done as usual matches, using any team member.
  • elwhiteninja
    elwhiteninja Posts: 209 Tile Toppler
    He seems very underwhelming from my tests on my sandbox. Other than free 5* match damage and the very interesting gimik of potential eternal life. I found his powers to be on the weak side. Granted I did not test extensively
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    elwhiteninja wrote:
    He seems very underwhelming from my tests on my sandbox. Other than free 5* match damage and the very interesting gimik of potential eternal life. I found his powers to be on the weak side. Granted I did not test extensively

    Did you use him with OML? His extra turn of match damage becomes a lot better with strike tiles and attack tiles out. Like I said before, he is underwhelming with damage, but he can wear you down if you let him get out of control with the green AP. 1v1 against OML he is useless though since he can't dish out enough damage to keep up with healing.
  • apexpredator85
    apexpredator85 Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    Thanks for posting video notamutant. I feel like he's underwhelming as well. He's a nuisance character. His blue power is another iteration of possibly the worst power in 4 star land with Hot Dog Hulk. Why bring that power to 5 star land when it doesn't work in 4 star land? Also Banner himself has more life than Hulk? Shouldn't he have double the health of Banner? (I know that could be potentially game breaking but who cares.) This Hulk will annoy rather than cause fear.
  • BlackSheep101
    BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    I see Banner's blue being more useful for enabling transformation. If you try to starve the board of green, you eat some extra damage while he builds green back up.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    apexpredator85 wrote:
    Thanks for posting video notamutant. I feel like he's underwhelming as well. He's a nuisance character. His blue power is another iteration of possibly the worst power in 4 star land with Hot Dog Hulk. Why bring that power to 5 star land when it doesn't work in 4 star land? Also Banner himself has more life than Hulk? Shouldn't he have double the health of Banner? (I know that could be potentially game breaking but who cares.) This Hulk will annoy rather than cause fear.

    I dont understand blue either, it is another completely useless power. Less than 7 is too little, it almost never triggers, we have seen those powers fail over and over. Why create a power in 5 land so useless!?!?! It is because he has two extra powers when he transforms?!?!?! I dont get it.

    I think he will be much better char than some people give him credit. With his match damage you can easily use him and OML as super tanks, soaking all damage while you build up AP. With purple at 6 he will transform all the time. Imagine a team composed of OML, Hulk and GG. I Don't think he is top tier, but I think he can be much better than Cap and SS.
  • Spiritclaw
    Spiritclaw Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
    Polares wrote:
    I dont understand blue either, it is another completely useless power. Less than 7 is too little, it almost never triggers, we have seen those powers fail over and over. Why create a power in 5 land so useless!?!?! It is because he has two extra powers when he transforms?!?!?! I dont get it.

    I think he will be much better char than some people give him credit. With his match damage you can easily use him and OML as super tanks, soaking all damage while you build up AP. With purple at 6 he will transform all the time. Imagine a team composed of OML, Hulk and GG. I Don't think he is top tier, but I think he can be much better than Cap and SS.

    The Other Guy needs green AP to trigger. I think the blue is there as a hedge against a randomly generated board very lacking in green. Not a great green accelerator, but something.
  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    I haven't played with him yet, but I am underwhelmed with him on offense.


    I think he stacks up as a decent defensive character though. Attack tiles will chip away at your health. The green AP gen... while not especially useful on offense, will make it harder to deny him green on defense (which you obviously want to do), because you can't just match it all away.

    He looks like he's going to be wildly inconsistent, which is what makes a character frustrating on defense. Kind of like Ant-Man or Professor X, who can be easy wins... but then you get that one match where s*** gets out of hand and goes sideways and you wipe. I think Hulk could be this type of character, and generate some defensive wins for your team.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    jobob wrote:
    I haven't played with him yet, but I am underwhelmed with him on offense.


    I think he stacks up as a decent defensive character though. Attack tiles will chip away at your health. The green AP gen... while not especially useful on offense, will make it harder to deny him green on defense (which you obviously want to do), because you can't just match it all away.

    He looks like he's going to be wildly inconsistent, which is what makes a character frustrating on defense. Kind of like Ant-Man or Professor X, who can be easy wins... but then you get that one match where s*** gets out of hand and goes sideways and you wipe. I think Hulk could be this type of character, and generate some defensive wins for your team.

    I think one of the biggest problems is the green production. Hulk needs a good power to create green so he can feed both the transformation and the attacks. Blue was supposed to be that power, but it clearly is not. If blue was more inline with 3* Hulk, this Hulk would be a force of nature, like doing 8k AoE every two or three turns (of course he should have the power both in banner and hulk form, it even makes more sense to have it just in Hulk form).

    Hulk gets stronger whenever he gets mad this is something 3* Hulk has, Rhulk has, Chulk doesn't, and it is completely absent from this one (why devs, why copy Chulk !!!!!). This Hulk needs a power to feed him green, not when the board is empty, when he gets mad (he is attacked). If it is when the board is empty then it needs to trigger more easily, like less than 9 !!!


    PS: I find it amazing that Devs don't know that less than 7 almost never triggers, do they test their chars in normal game scenarios???? And what is the point to use someone like Howard so blue can trigger removing all green ?!?!?! We want to add green, no, not add, we want to FILL the board with green!, that is the goal, not remove all green to trigger blue and add a couple of greens, and some paltry 1k damage :S

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