**** Peggy Carter (Captain America) ****

OneLastGambit

Vhailorx wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

People really think about defense?

There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.

Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..

As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...

Umm, Star-lord is still awful! Sure, if you custom build a team around him, he becomes passable. But there are so so many better teams you could be using instead.

And yes, defense is less important that offense. But strong, ai-proof defensive characters are still a factor, especially when they can slow down the pace of offense.

Personally I never think about defense and so called defensive teams like jg are easy pickings as they are usually slow. That's just me though.

I thought the idea behind having multiple characters is to use different teams. Star Lord is actually great in the team listed above. Sure there are better teams I should be using but by that rationale I should only ever use my oml team as nothing else comes close

Orangecrush

OneLastGambit wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

People really think about defense?

There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.

Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..

As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...

Umm, Star-lord is still awful! Sure, if you custom build a team around him, he becomes passable. But there are so so many better teams you could be using instead.

And yes, defense is less important that offense. But strong, ai-proof defensive characters are still a factor, especially when they can slow down the pace of offense.

Personally I never think about defense and so called defensive teams like jg are easy pickings as they are usually slow. That's just me though.

I thought the idea behind having multiple characters is to use different teams. Star Lord is actually great in the team listed above. Sure there are better teams I should be using but by that rationale I should only ever use my oml team as nothing else comes close

Defense in this game is found in the form of someone skipping you. That's why I said I think this is the first truely defensive character. Every other toon before her was only scary in that they could kill you. She makes it harder for you to kill the other team. If every single power you want to use costs 2 more matches, you are going to skip her unless you are running high level 5*. Think of it this way: what skill would you say is still good even if it cost 4 ap more? Virtually none. She makes every single skill you have not good for the cost.

Pwuz_

Orangecrush wrote:

Defense in this game is found in the form of someone skipping you. That's why I said I think this is the first truely defensive character. Every other toon before her was only scary in that they could kill you. She makes it harder for you to kill the other team. If every single power you want to use costs 2 more matches, you are going to skip her unless you are running high level 5*. Think of it this way: what skill would you say is still good even if it cost 4 ap more? Virtually none. She makes every single skill you have not good for the cost.

Perhaps you started playing during this new era of 4* and beyond, but back in my day Hood was a defensive threat and he couldn't kill squat on his own.

Orangecrush

Pwuz_ wrote:

Orangecrush wrote:

Defense in this game is found in the form of someone skipping you. That's why I said I think this is the first truely defensive character. Every other toon before her was only scary in that they could kill you. She makes it harder for you to kill the other team. If every single power you want to use costs 2 more matches, you are going to skip her unless you are running high level 5*. Think of it this way: what skill would you say is still good even if it cost 4 ap more? Virtually none. She makes every single skill you have not good for the cost.

Perhaps you started playing during this new era of 4* and beyond, but back in my day Hood was a defensive threat and he couldn't kill squat on his own.

True, but you mostly fought fire with fire and just brought your own hood . Bringing peggy won't make your skills cheaper.

ErikPeter

Yellow at 5 is sick, but at the expense of 5 in Blue or Red... even 4/5/4 reduces her damage by a ton.

Pwuz_

Orangecrush wrote:

Pwuz_ wrote:

Orangecrush wrote:

Defense in this game is found in the form of someone skipping you. That's why I said I think this is the first truely defensive character. Every other toon before her was only scary in that they could kill you. She makes it harder for you to kill the other team. If every single power you want to use costs 2 more matches, you are going to skip her unless you are running high level 5*. Think of it this way: what skill would you say is still good even if it cost 4 ap more? Virtually none. She makes every single skill you have not good for the cost.

Perhaps you started playing during this new era of 4* and beyond, but back in my day Hood was a defensive threat and he couldn't kill squat on his own.

True, but you mostly fought fire with fire and just brought your own hood . Bringing peggy won't make your skills cheaper.

That's not always an option though. In PvE you can't put your Hood against the AI hood. Besides that, not everyone had a fully covered Hood to place opposite. Personally, my Hood languished at 5/1/5 for a while before a few months of 5/2/5... And that was back in the preChampion days when I still had to come up with another 2 Blue covers to change that!

Besides that you as the player can focus all of your efforts on getting the opposing Peggy down to under her threshold to negate her power, while the AI will attack who you place in front. Not to mention that you can stop focusing on her once that ability has been shut down, and you can choose to hold off on using a power will after she's no longer raising AP costs.

I honestly think that Peggy will change the value of team heals. To this point, healing has been more of an irritation than anything else. But once you can start focusing on other characters once someone like Peggy drops below a certain threshold, do you choose to finish them off now or focus on a more pressing threat once they're no longer activating that passive?

Will D3 follow this release up with more characters who have passives that are only in effect while a certain % of health is there? They've previously done a few that worked on the other side (when below a certain %), but more like this could be interesting. Or even more flexible, abilities that do one thing above the %, and another below?

Karass

any time now for the official thread to be updated, or are we waiting for her pvp to start to get the numbers? (i know they were leaked, but hey, it's not like it was two days late already)

#sarcasmoff

Vhailorx

OneLastGambit wrote:

Personally I never think about defense and so called defensive teams like jg are easy pickings as they are usually slow. That's just me though.

I thought the idea behind having multiple characters is to use different teams. Star Lord is actually great in the team listed above. Sure there are better teams I should be using but by that rationale I should only ever use my oml team as nothing else comes close

JG is weak now because she has become squishy and reltively toothless in the current meta. But she was released at a time when only 4 characters had health above 15k (+ dino), and when match damage was still capped around 83.

In that world, she was relatively robust with 13k health, and 4k aoe attacks hit very hard. She has always been a bit slow, but she was a legitmately threatening opponent when released. Now she is a target unless boosted, because most get A teams will about 14k health at a minimum (of not 25+k via 4* champs), and there are some very powerful and fast new ap-generation techniques that don't risk her passive (e.g. 4* cyclops, im40, GG, etc) and 5* match damage can burn her down without any powers pretty damn fast too.

Maybe aesth is right and Peggy will follow the same path. But I still think it's a bad design philosophy to rely on such aggressive power creep to keep vets interested in playing.

Cascad

Peggy Carter is terribly perfect for defense.
It is too difficult to make her 30%, but also if you will mix her with Thing and Xpool you will be punished for every stong move to her. It will be pain for everyone.
I wish I could be whale only for her)))
But...
So see her full cover on the end of next year, I suppose)))

Oldboy

Will the passive still be in effect if she is stunned or airborne?

Piro_plock

Oldboy wrote:

Will the passive still be in effect if she is stunned or airborne?

No.

RoryQ

Cascad wrote:

but also if you will mix her with Thing and Xpool you will be punished for every stong move to her.

That would be an incredibly painful team to fight. Coming soon to a Gauntlet near you.

Polares

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

IMO, even if 5s didn't exist, she still wouldn't be a top 5 4*.

She doesn't heal, steal AP, throw massive protects or buff tiles. Her offense is good, but not great, much bigger guns out there.

Are you serious?????

Yes. Dropping my "Dead Serious" siggy in no way indicates I suddenly became a silly person, only that I decided it was time for a new one ... before I actually made the new one!

Polares wrote:

The iceman blue 6+6 now becomes 9+9...

9+6. She'll be stunned for the punch. Better off using that "+6" for another stun tho, unless bobbygollum is buffed.

So, then you are using iceman stun on her, not on OML, GG, other iceman, jean, etc. or any other major char. I guess this says A LOT about how powerful she is. Of course this just helps if this is iceman or anyone with a stun.

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

How is that not the best defensive ability in the game?

Well this is a new claim. People were in their hair shirts and declaring Peggy "OP". "The best defensive ability in the game" is not, per se, "OP". Is this "the best defensive ability in the game"? And if it is ... meh? Good "defensive" abilities might get you skipped more often, if they are a big enough hassle. But in this game, particularly in PVP, offense is the only thing. Defense is a hedge, it won't win you anything.

Polares wrote:

Her red is 750 dmg/AP which is better than IMHB.

1. IMHB can self-accelerate in 2 ways, 1 direct and 1 indirect. Peggy has no acceleration.
2. IMHB is showing his age. Abilities with better dmg/AP are becoming numerous. The powers, they have crept right by him.

Yes IMHB can self-accelerate. Peggy on the other hand can make you go slower so she gives more time to anybody on her team to get the AP, not just her. It is not the same for hops, but as good for climbing or PvE.

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

... her blue is a 2 char 3 turn stun, and then 962 dmg/AP. And if you wait to fire this one until the target is almost dead, there is no way the other team can match the countdowns!!!

1443 dmg/AP IF all three CDs go off. Looks like you figured it as 2 CDs. It looks like a great ability, a fun way to clean up goon trios! And it's also the kind of ability the AI will reliably bungle.

It is one countdown per ally, this is why I think it is two countdowns. Anyway, this is why I say that if you wait until your target it almost dead there will be no one to match those countdowns, so if you play it correctly they will ALWAYS go off.

aesthetocyst wrote:

It almost sound like you plan on running here 555. Neat trick! Can I get that deal applied to me Xpool?

???? I did all the calculations for a 5/3/5 build, I even state this is the build I was talking about in the beginning of my comment. 3/5/5 might be also a very powerful build.

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

Now imagine her buffed!!! All recent chars were very good...

Drax? War Machine?

I was talking about Kate and Moon which are the latest ones. Warm is not that bad, his blue is really strong, and his green is also good. Drax... I still don't know about Drax, he might be not as bad as most people think.

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

but this one is a must!

Is that not the central goal of the character marketing strategy? If not it should be. Can't hit'em all out of the park, but it's nice when they really ding one.

Having a new character worth looking forward to, worth chasing, is a good thing.

Now, I have to go do a clear for Cpt. Carter. Do As Peggy Says!

One thing is getting interesting new chars, and something different is what it looks like is happening (of course just devs really know what is happening), that we are starting the same power creep that gave birth to chars like If, switch, Luke or 3 cyclops. It might even be worse in 4 land because of how powerful 5s are and how irrelevant they have made 4s in general. So now they need to make new 4s even stronger. I don't know if this is a bad thing or not, I guess it makes people interested in new chars, but it is also sad see the old 4s we wiped from relevance completely (why would now a 3->4 player level Kingpin, Antman, x23, Thing or any other of the 'just' good tier 4s?)

People will need a lot of time to cover her, but If we would still be able to buy covers, I think A LOT of people would buy her covers, and we would be seeing her A LOT in sim teams. I have even seen people that usually just play PvP in this PvE !!!

This is probably the only char that a levelled 5 team may use, this says A LOT about how powerful Peggy is. At least her life is in the group of 14k, but it should probably be even less...

Polares

OneLastGambit wrote:

People really think about defense?

There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.

Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..

As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...

It is not just defense in PvP we are talking about (even though this xpool, thing, peggy looks scary), she has a similar ability than Hood. Hood was the best defence in the game because it made the other team not fire abilitites against you, it helped you save A LOT of health packs. He was a MUST for Gauntlet when I was in 3 land. This is why he had the smallest hitpoints in the game in 3 land.

I think Peggy can have the same effect when she is in your team, she might give you enough time to fire your powers before the AI fires theirs. Remember that AI matches colors quite randomly, it tries to match all its colors, not just one to fire one power fast (this is also why Hood was so powerful). And AI also tries to fire more than one power at the same time. AI doesn't play like we do! Peggy's ability is going to probably buy you 3 or 4 more turns before AI fires anything. THIS IS A LOT OF EXTRA TURNS !!!!

CrookedKnight

Blue is going to be an awesome team-up, in addition to everything else - remember, TUs treat all three characters on your team as "allies."

Polares

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

1443 dmg/AP IF all three CDs go off. Looks like you figured it as 2 CDs. It looks like a great ability, a fun way to clean up goon trios! And it's also the kind of ability the AI will reliably bungle.

It is one countdown per ally, this is why I think it is two countdowns.
...

Piro, in describing stats from his test account, specifically said 3 CDs as the power counts Peggy.

BUT in the updated OP it just states "each active ally". Lets hear it for clear verbiage!

If it doesnt count Peggy the power takes a big hit when she solos.

The term "active ally" has been used before ... Its early and memory fails me. Since i assume Piro tooke her for a test drive I trust his account.

Mmmm this is weird. This is what Piro said (I have highlighted what we were taling about)

Do as Peggy Says (11AP)
Lvl 70:
1. Stun all enemies but target for 3 turns, place one 3-turn blue countdown (dealing 102 dmg) for each active ally (note: that includes also her, so max 3 countdowns)
2. 167 dmg per countdown
3. 482 dmg
4. 1113 dmg
5. 2726 dmg
Lvl 270:
3. 936 dmg per countdown
4. 2160 dmg
5. 5292 dmg

Sooooo it should be 3? But usually ally doesn't include you, like Nova yellow which just adds 2 strikes, never 3 (in the DD4 it was adding 0 strikes).

Devs some clarification please?

Pylgrim

Added to the character compendium.

Clyve

Polares wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Polares wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

1443 dmg/AP IF all three CDs go off. Looks like you figured it as 2 CDs. It looks like a great ability, a fun way to clean up goon trios! And it's also the kind of ability the AI will reliably bungle.

It is one countdown per ally, this is why I think it is two countdowns.
...

Piro, in describing stats from his test account, specifically said 3 CDs as the power counts Peggy.

BUT in the updated OP it just states "each active ally". Lets hear it for clear verbiage!

If it doesnt count Peggy the power takes a big hit when she solos.

The term "active ally" has been used before ... Its early and memory fails me. Since i assume Piro tooke her for a test drive I trust his account.

Mmmm this is weird. This is what Piro said (I have highlighted what we were taling about)

Do as Peggy Says (11AP)
Lvl 70:
1. Stun all enemies but target for 3 turns, place one 3-turn blue countdown (dealing 102 dmg) for each active ally (note: that includes also her, so max 3 countdowns)
2. 167 dmg per countdown
3. 482 dmg
4. 1113 dmg
5. 2726 dmg
Lvl 270:
3. 936 dmg per countdown
4. 2160 dmg
5. 5292 dmg

Sooooo it should be 3? But usually ally doesn't include you, like Nova yellow which just adds 2 strikes, never 3 (in the DD4 it was adding 0 strikes).

Devs some clarification please?

Assuming it does count her, "team member" would be the preferred term, right?

wymtime

So for 11 blue AP she stuns 2 people for 3 turns and can do 10-15k damage depending on the word ally. Oh yea and the enemy team every power will now cost 4 more AP. Well at least you can boost 2 AP to all all and 2 AP to the powers you want to use just to be even. Can you say power creep?

At least 5* match damage will knock her down fairly quickly. In 6 months when she is buffed she will be a pain.

Sandwichboy

OneLastGambit wrote:

People really think about defense?

There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.

Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..

As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...

People tend to forget that the most effective type of defence in pvp is before the match even happens. "Wait, HOW long is this fight likely to take with her? Screw that." *skip*

That fact alone makes her incredibly good for pvp; Unless they're sure they can stun or drop her in under a minute, nobody is going to want to face a team with her on it during a hop or a late climb.