**** Peggy Carter (Captain America) ****
Comments
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She is like Hood in his heyday the only counter to Hood was bring your own Hood. So if you see Peggy, just bring you own Peggy and there will be no advantage. Once you use your 5* to match damage her below 30% you spam abilities. If she is not buffed you will need to knock her down to about 4500 health. With. Big 5* that should not be too bad. Once you do you should have enough AP to do some real damage to the entire team.Sandwichboy wrote:OneLastGambit wrote:People really think about defense?
There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.
Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..
As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...
People tend to forget that the most effective type of defence in pvp is before the match even happens. "Wait, HOW long is this fight likely to take with her? Screw that." *skip*
That fact alone makes her incredibly good for pvp; Unless they're sure they can stun or drop her in under a minute, nobody is going to want to face a team with her on it during a hop or a late climb.0 -
well, sure both teams will have the same +4 AP cost to everything, but that doesn't negate the fact that it's going to mean the match will still take longer for you to tear through as a result unless you've got a very high level 5* or two to match damage her down fast. Her biggest pvp strength isn't that she will win matches, it's that she will draw out matches too long to make it worth the risk of a huge point loss. Even if you're slowing the AI down from being able to use it's powers, YOU still are slowed down too and that's a serious deterrent when you're trying to squeeze in 2 matches during a shield hop. Boosted or not, unless I had some serious advantages over a team with her on it, I would not want to risk it.0
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Clyve wrote:
Assuming it does count her, "team member" would be the preferred term, right?
I think you are right, but Piro said 3 countdowns, which is odd.wymtime wrote:She is like Hood in his heyday the only counter to Hood was bring your own Hood. So if you see Peggy, just bring you own Peggy and there will be no advantage. Once you use your 5* to match damage her below 30% you spam abilities. If she is not buffed you will need to knock her down to about 4500 health. With. Big 5* that should not be too bad. Once you do you should have enough AP to do some real damage to the entire team.
I don't agree to this statement. Hood counters Hood because one negates the effect of the other, but Peggy doesn't counter Peggy, you are making things worse for both teams, but that doesn't mean that you are not going to feel the effects of the +4AP, specially during shield hops!. The counter to Peggy would be a passive ability that makes all powers -4AP, which of course doesn't exist. There is no counter to Peggy, the only thing we can do is just bring her life as fast as possible to the limit of the ability.
I would like to ask to the people that says she is not OP, who would you prefer to fight, a 420 level SS, OML, Phoenix, Spidey or Cap or a 350 level Peggy? Because I would rather fight any of those 5s than Peggy! (420 level GG and IM46 are probably the only bigger scarecrows at 420 level) Imagine having to get a 28k life Peggy to the 30% limit just with match damage! Even if it is 5 match damage it is going to be a while!
Imagine having to fight Peggy in Balance of Power !!!! Oh my, it is going to be a party...
This yellow should have NEVER been created as it is right now. If it was +2AP at 3 covers and +3AP at 5 it would still be amazing but +4AP at 5 is completely nuts.0 -
You are exaggerating the impact of the ability. With the various acceleration options available, plus the existence of abilities with variable cost that can ignore the AP penalty, plus the option of stunning her to temporarily restore costs to normal, fighting Peggy is far preferable to dealing with the power levels brought by 400+ level 5*s.Polares wrote:I would like to ask to the people that says she is not OP, who would you prefer to fight, a 420 level SS, OML, Phoenix, Spidey or Cap or a 350 level Peggy? Because I would rather fight any of those 5s than Peggy! (420 level GG and IM46 are probably the only bigger scarecrows at 420 level) Imagine having to get a 28k life Peggy to the 30% limit just with match damage! Even if it is 5 match damage it is going to be a while!
Imagine having to fight Peggy in Balance of Power !!!! Oh my, it is going to be a party...
This yellow should have NEVER been created as it is right now. If it was +2AP at 3 covers and +3AP at 5 it would still be amazing but +4AP at 5 is completely nuts.0 -
BlackSheep101 wrote:
You are exaggerating the impact of the ability. With the various acceleration options available, plus the existence of abilities with variable cost that can ignore the AP penalty, plus the option of stunning her to temporarily restore costs to normal, fighting Peggy is far preferable to dealing with the power levels brought by 400+ level 5*s.Polares wrote:I would like to ask to the people that says she is not OP, who would you prefer to fight, a 420 level SS, OML, Phoenix, Spidey or Cap or a 350 level Peggy? Because I would rather fight any of those 5s than Peggy! (420 level GG and IM46 are probably the only bigger scarecrows at 420 level) Imagine having to get a 28k life Peggy to the 30% limit just with match damage! Even if it is 5 match damage it is going to be a while!
Imagine having to fight Peggy in Balance of Power !!!! Oh my, it is going to be a party...
This yellow should have NEVER been created as it is right now. If it was +2AP at 3 covers and +3AP at 5 it would still be amazing but +4AP at 5 is completely nuts.
All of the acceleration options cost AP though. So how does it matter if there are AP acceleration, especially when the AP used is no longer worth as much? Are you going to use 15 black AP on overdrive for HB to get 9 red? What about for RH, using his purple costs 11 AP for 7 AP now, and you can't even use his cheaper green until 13 AP now. And how are you going to stun Peggy? Iceman is the cheapest stun, and he will cost 10 AP now. The AI will be trying to make blue matches as well, since it will be one of her colors.
Against OML, it will make little difference, as he doesn't even use any moves anyhow until later in the match. Against OML and IF, IF is now useless with his purple costing 9 AP.0 -
Because boosts exist? Because once you get HB over 13 red, the penalty doesn't matter? So you have to hit 11 purple instead of 7 to bump rulk up to 18 green. Does switch care? This is not dozens of extra turns we're talking about. Meanwhile, a couple of criticals in a cascade against high level 5*s and you're dead.
There's no doubting her yellow is a strong ability that will have an impact on the current meta, but placing her above a 10 cover OML is simply hyperbole.0 -
This new character (whether she is op or not) brings up an old issue with me.
CAN WE PLEASE BALANCE OUT OLD 4*S PLEASE?!
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned XFW compared to Quake (or even X23). His power/cost (green) is seriously in need of tuning.
Starlord would be a good candidate now too (well, he's always been one). Make his yellow reduce power cost by 3 or 4 and you've got a good power now, even a hard counter to Capt Peggy.0 -
Her yellow is boring!
4ap cost to each opponents strongest color would at least make the game more tactical (especially as opponents fell). It would also differentiate her yellow better from Starlords red.0 -
BillyBobJoe wrote:This new character (whether she is op or not) brings up an old issue with me.
CAN WE PLEASE BALANCE OUT OLD 4*S PLEASE?!
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned XFW compared to Quake (or even X23). His power/cost (green) is seriously in need of tuning.
Starlord would be a good candidate now too (well, he's always been one). Make his yellow reduce power cost by 3 or 4 and you've got a good power now, even a hard counter to Capt Peggy.
I like that idea a lot. I'd even go further as to say that his red should be buffed similarly.
Both those abilities should affect all colors at all levels, and then add or subtract 5 AP at 5 covers.
If Peggy can has this as a passive, Star Lord should get that much temporarily.0 -
BlackSheep101 wrote:Because boosts exist? Because once you get HB over 13 red, the penalty doesn't matter? So you have to hit 11 purple instead of 7 to bump rulk up to 18 green. Does switch care? This is not dozens of extra turns we're talking about. Meanwhile, a couple of criticals in a cascade against high level 5*s and you're dead.
There's no doubting her yellow is a strong ability that will have an impact on the current meta, but placing her above a 10 cover OML is simply hyperbole.
I don't know where are you in the game right now, but If you are already in champed 4 territory, a 10 cover OML is not that scary. Most of the time he is just there doing match damage, but that's it. And with 10 covers his life pool is still in the 28-32k range which is the same most champed and buffed 4s have.
I am not saying she is better than a 10 cover OML, she is not, I am just saying she is far more annoying to fight against, and probably also slower to beat, and this is something very important in PvP.
PS: I also agree some 4s really need to be balanced. Even Silver Surfer really needs to be balanced.0 -
News Flash: good 4* champions are a pain to fight when boosted! Film at 11!0
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BlackSheep101 wrote:News Flash: good 4* champions are a pain to fight when boosted! Film at 11!
I don't know how to answer to this, because I don't even agree with your satirical statement! As long as I already have the weekly buffed char there is no problem in fighting any other buffed 4. Fighting buffed Jean? No problem as long as I also have a buffed jean. Fighting a buffed Cyclops? The same. Fighting a buffed Peggy? No thank you, not even with my own buffed Peggy. If I can find another 50+ node I will prefer not to fight her. This is the big difference!
If you don't think it is going to be much painful to fight against Peggy than fighting against Cyclops, Jean, IMHB or Rhulk, etc. then I guess there is no point arguing more with you, we just have different opinions. For me, fighting Penny is going to be much more painful than fighting any other 4 with the exception of Iceman maybe (or some other teams like thing+xpool designed to be annoying).
Passives are really strong in this game and Peggy's yellow is one of the best! Probably the strongest one in 4 land.
We are going TO LOVE fighting her in the next Gauntlet. I see devs using the Peggy + thing + xpool team in a node.0 -
At least we're retreating to measuring her against other 4*s.Polares wrote:If you don't think it is going to be much painful to fight against Peggy than fighting against Cyclops, Jean, IMHB or Rhulk, etc. then I guess there is no point arguing more with you, we just have different opinions. For me, fighting Penny is going to be much more painful than fighting any other 4 with the exception of Iceman maybe (or some other teams like thing+xpool designed to be annoying)
My guess is that she'll be strong, but the playbook will be to stun her before going nova (not Nova). I hear there are a few powers that will do the trick. Hopefully they remember to turn off her passive when she's airborne, too.0 -
Polares wrote:BlackSheep101 wrote:News Flash: good 4* champions are a pain to fight when boosted! Film at 11!
I don't know how to answer to this, because I don't even agree with your satirical statement! As long as I already have the weekly buffed char there is no problem in fighting any other buffed 4. Fighting buffed Jean? No problem as long as I also have a buffed jean. Fighting a buffed Cyclops? The same. Fighting a buffed Peggy? No thank you, not even with my own buffed Peggy. If I can find another 50+ node I will prefer not to fight her. This is the big difference!
If you don't think it is going to be much painful to fight against Peggy than fighting against Cyclops, Jean, IMHB or Rhulk, etc. then I guess there is no point arguing more with you, we just have different opinions. For me, fighting Penny is going to be much more painful than fighting any other 4 with the exception of Iceman maybe (or some other teams like thing+xpool designed to be annoying).
Passives are really strong in this game and Peggy's yellow is one of the best! Probably the strongest one in 4 land.
We are going TO LOVE fighting her in the next Gauntlet. I see devs using the Peggy + thing + xpool team in a node.
This might be going a bit too far. She seems very strong relative to the existing 4* play space, but I don't think she will break the game. Her introduction is a much smaller change to the meta that SS was last september. And while we all seem to agree that 5*s introduced many problems to the game, we are all also still playing the game and posting on these forums 9 months later. It's hard to claim that 5*s broke anything.
And for another example of character release hyperbole, go look at the carnage thread. I started out thinking carnage was a disaster, and then by the time he was actually released I had dropped that down to: either (1) he is a pay-to-win disaster because hid read trashes everything for the mere price of health packs, or (2) he has no acceleration, so it his red is too slow to be insta-win, making him just not good enough to be top tier or have a huge effect on the meta besides being an annoying opponent to throw out on PVP defense.
And I think it's pretty clear that my case #2 turned out to be right. Peggy may turn out to be the same. Her passive will be incredibly annoying to fight. And she will definitely be the center-piece of some truly evil Gauntlet and Simulator nodes. But if she's not fast, then she won't be a premier PVP option (using her will slow the AI team down by 2-4 rounds, which is great! But do i really care when I could build a team around GG or IM46 and do 24k damage for 8 AP?).0 -
And thanks to OML, he's not even that anymore. Using Carnage in PvP these days is like handing someone the bullets for the gun he has pointed at you.Vhailorx wrote:And for another example of character release hyperbole, go look at the carnage thread. I started out thinking carnage was a disaster, and then by the time he was actually released I had dropped that down to: either (1) he is a pay-to-win disaster because hid read trashes everything for the mere price of health packs, or (2) he has no acceleration, so it his red is too slow to be insta-win, making him just not good enough to be top tier or have a huge effect on the meta besides being an annoying opponent to throw out on PVP defense.0 -
Phoenix on the other hand does not like fighting with or against Carnage.simonsez wrote:
And thanks to OML, he's not even that anymore. Using Carnage in PvP these days is like handing someone the bullets for the gun he has pointed at you.Vhailorx wrote:And for another example of character release hyperbole, go look at the carnage thread. I started out thinking carnage was a disaster, and then by the time he was actually released I had dropped that down to: either (1) he is a pay-to-win disaster because hid read trashes everything for the mere price of health packs, or (2) he has no acceleration, so it his red is too slow to be insta-win, making him just not good enough to be top tier or have a huge effect on the meta besides being an annoying opponent to throw out on PVP defense.0 -
PeterGibbons316 wrote:
Phoenix on the other hand does not like fighting with or against Carnage.simonsez wrote:
And thanks to OML, he's not even that anymore. Using Carnage in PvP these days is like handing someone the bullets for the gun he has pointed at you.Vhailorx wrote:And for another example of character release hyperbole, go look at the carnage thread. I started out thinking carnage was a disaster, and then by the time he was actually released I had dropped that down to: either (1) he is a pay-to-win disaster because hid read trashes everything for the mere price of health packs, or (2) he has no acceleration, so it his red is too slow to be insta-win, making him just not good enough to be top tier or have a huge effect on the meta besides being an annoying opponent to throw out on PVP defense.
But one of those two 5*s more or less defines the meta. And other one is a perfectly fine variant of Jean Grey. Unless you only have a few champed 4*s, Carnage is basically just dead roster weight outside of special events like nefarious foes. There is almost always a better option available for any task.0 -
I'm on the fence with her, on the surface she looks good, but to actually use her idk. I have 2 390 5☆s, OML & Phoenix. In pvp you get to pick 2 characters, will she bring more to the table than Phoenix? Probably not, absolutely not before she's maxed and championed. Using her under covered and leveled would be suicide.
In pve is slowing the ai more valuable than accelerating my team? Again probably not0 -
That's the point though, once you have usable 5*s EVERY 4* is basically just dead roster weight outside of special events. Peggy seems potentially game breaking to the 3*/4* meta, but IMO likely still irrelevant in the 5* game.Vhailorx wrote:PeterGibbons316 wrote:
Phoenix on the other hand does not like fighting with or against Carnage.simonsez wrote:
And thanks to OML, he's not even that anymore. Using Carnage in PvP these days is like handing someone the bullets for the gun he has pointed at you.Vhailorx wrote:And for another example of character release hyperbole, go look at the carnage thread. I started out thinking carnage was a disaster, and then by the time he was actually released I had dropped that down to: either (1) he is a pay-to-win disaster because hid read trashes everything for the mere price of health packs, or (2) he has no acceleration, so it his red is too slow to be insta-win, making him just not good enough to be top tier or have a huge effect on the meta besides being an annoying opponent to throw out on PVP defense.
But one of those two 5*s more or less defines the meta. And other one is a perfectly fine variant of Jean Grey. Unless you only have a few champed 4*s, Carnage is basically just dead roster weight outside of special events like nefarious foes. There is almost always a better option available for any task.0
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