**** Peggy Carter (Captain America) ****

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Comments

  • Piro_plock
    Piro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Where is the confirmation that her yellow increases enemy costs by 4ap?
    I got those stats from a sandboxed account (opened a lot of Unstable Iso-8 40-packs for that purpose).
    Here's a screenshot: https://s32.postimg.org/j140ouyj9/010.png
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    babinro wrote:
    There's absolutely no way that yellow stays in the game without a nerf.

    C'mon guys, it's something new. See how it plays out.

    Anyone running her at 5 yellow will also be choosing to sacrifice some of her offense. A nice design skewer built right in.

    There are tons of stuns in game. They can be used as TUs.

    AP boosts top out at 4. She adds up to 4ap.
    Orangecrush wrote:
    ... That is at least 2 times worse than 4* Thor or xfoce wolvie ever were...

    Hardly. Especially compared to the meta at the time.

    Tho I have not looked outside in the past minute, I am confident the heavenly vault remains elevated.

    Aesth,

    I agree that introducing OP characters doesn't equate to the end of the world. So griping should be kept in perspective. But can we at least agree that this power is out of line with existing 4* power levels?

    4ap is huge cost increase. And the 30% health on a beefy 4* means it will take a while to disable the power. Star Lord is the only basis for comparison of this particular mechanic. And this power is laughably better Star-lord. This power is even better than almost all of the proposed fixed to star Lord's powers.

    Think about what fun it will be when the next gauntlet node 42 is Peggy + moon knight + IM40 all at level 400+.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:

    No, I don't agree. Let me count the ways .... (beyond those listed above)

    4*s are subject to buffs and therefore players are generally using who's buffed this week. Unless this is the first "buffable" AP effect power (buffs to +7ap, haha), that's not OP.

    Compared to Iceman's ridiculous damage/AP ratios, this doesn't seem OP.

    Compared to 4thor's insane damage scaling, which can even scale off the enemy's actions? Doesn't seem OP.

    Compared to Rulk's ability to completely drain an enemy color at 1-cover, and self-accelerate to a team-flattening AoE, doesn't seem OP.

    Hell, compared to Khans irritating heal when paired with spammers, Carnage's psychotic tile spamming, PX's potentially infinite tile buffing and match-5 nukes, GR's ability to double an enemy damage output and reverse it on them, Nova's obsession with tossing people, Quake's ability to nullify AoEs, Jean ability to wipe the board / spam the board while also AoEing, PunMax's crazy damage output .... *takes breath*

    No, it just seems like a new twist. One that will demand attention, just as many other characters going back to the game's early days (OBW, Hood, Loki, PX, Khan, etc), have demand particular attention.

    I disagree with all of your comparison's for the following reason:

    Almost everything you cite is an active power (except KK and Quake and they are much easier to circumvent than Peggy's will be). Peggy's power is an passive power that affects almost every possible counter strategy. The comparison isn't to a powerful stun/nuke, the comparison is to Hood. Like Hood, the best way to beat her will be to use passive heavy strategies that rely on match damage, since it will take MUCH longer to effect any power-based strategy. But unlike hood, peggy doesn't have lowest-in-class health, and her passive can't be circumvented quickly by targeting a single color and dropping her with 1 power.

    I don't think she will break the game, but I do think she is likely to emerge as the premier defensive character in 4* land. And the power creep of these recent releases is getting extremely obvious. 4* powers are just better now than they used to be. (compare XFW's green to Quake's Blue. same cost, same basic design goal (cheap boardshake with a bit of damage), but Quake's is targetable and therefore flat out better.)
  • poomermon
    poomermon Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    As good as that yellow is I'm actually thinking going for 5/3/5 build. 3 yellow is still 3 more ap cost for opponent and red and blue are both pretty good abilities. Blue especially seems good if you can target one weakened foe, stun 2 others and then kill the remaining one (with her red for example). You get 3 free turns and 15k dmg.
  • We_are_Venom
    We_are_Venom Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
    She will clearly be targeted first, so XFDP/Thing/CC sounds insanely annoying!
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 693 Critical Contributor
    Her moves look amazing -- a top tier 4*. Iceman's probably a little better because all of his moves work together. It's totally worth using Peggy with or against 5*s.
  • The Bob The
    The Bob The Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    aesthetocyst wrote:

    Lastly ... damn she will be fun to take against those tinykitty DAs icon_lol.gif

    Somewhere, Daken wakes up in a cold sweat.

    "Honey, what is it?"
    "It's ... I don't know, Ragnarok, but I suddenly felt like I just lost the one thing going for me."
    "You get used to it. Now come back to bed."
  • Mawtful
    Mawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think I agree more with Vhailorx (that is, I'm tending towards saying that Yellow is currently too strong), however there's some interesting comparisons to the end of 3* tier that I think should be kept in mind. I was driven by aesthetocyst's comparisons to other top 4* characters and poomermon's suggestion that rank 3 in yellow may be all that's required.

    In brief, I think Carter can be compared to Luke Cage.
    Cage's passive reduces match damage, which allows players to make denial matches which gathering AP they need for their own powers. Carter's is a little more direct, it essentially adds an extra turn or two of matching colours in order to have the AP required; although it doesn't actually prevent any damage if you they can get the AP.
    There's a bit more diversity in their other abilities; Carter doesn't have a nuke like Uppercut, although the damage potential on her Blue is quite good. And although I wouldn't label 9 AP as "cheap", I would suggest that Carter's Red seems to be designed for use in guaranteeing a killing blow - particularly against an enemy who has just enough health to survive match damage.
    Both characters, respective to their tier, fall short of being offensive powerhouses, but both have enough "aggressive support" which makes them dangerous to ignore.

    Lastly, and unrelated, but I think there are a few examples where the AI can be exploited against Carter's passive - especially when it's at Rank 5. The two characters which come to mind are Hulkbuster and Red Hulk. The AI will fire Rocket Punch as soon as it gets the AP - against a Rank 5 Carter, it won't be firing until it has 13 AP minimum, which will be a lot more dangerous. Similarly, the AI is prone to using H&A as soon as it passes 9 Green, but again we're now looking at 13 AP, which increases the likelihood of getting to 11 or 12 AP and then using Siphon. It's still the AI, so I don't expect that these delays will necessarily have huge repercussions, however there are some ways to make that increased AP cost work to your advantage.
  • otrigorin
    otrigorin Posts: 31
    The Bob The wrote:
    aesthetocyst wrote:

    Lastly ... damn she will be fun to take against those tinykitty DAs icon_lol.gif

    Somewhere, Daken wakes up in a cold sweat.

    "Honey, what is it?"
    "It's ... I don't know, Ragnarok, but I suddenly felt like I just lost the one thing going for me."
    "You get used to it. Now come back to bed."

    I'll never be able to fight that pair again without giggling.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2016
    aesthetocyst wrote:

    IMO, even if 5s didn't exist, she still wouldn't be a top 5 4*.

    She doesn't heal, steal AP, throw massive protects or buff tiles. Her offense is good, but not great, much bigger guns out there.

    Are you serious????? Even with the 5/3/5 her yellow adds an extra turn to everything, but for the best attacks/combos it adds two!!! The iceman blue 6+6 now becomes 9+9, the Rhulk 7+11 now 10+14, Nova 7+6 now 10+9 !!! Cyclops 5+10(10) now 8+13(10) !!! And with yellow at 5 you might be adding two turns to everything!!! How is that not the best defensive ability in the game?

    Her red is 750 dmg/AP which is better than IMHB.

    Then her blue is a 2 char 3 turn stun, and then 962 dmg/AP. And if you wait to fire this one until the target is almost dead, there is no way the other team can match the countdowns!!!

    Now imagine her buffed!!! All recent chars were very good, but this one is a must!

    PS: The other reason she is not OP is because 5s exist. Any 450 level 5 can kill her just with match damage, but in the 4 land she is really strong

    Edit: Remove my reading mistakes icon_razz.gif
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Are you serious????? Even with the 5/3/5 her yellow adds an extra turn to everything, but for the best attacks/combos it adds two!!! The iceman blue 6+6 now becomes 9+9, the Rhulk 7+11 now 10+14, Nova 7+6 now 10+9 !!! Cyclops 5+10(10) now 8+13(10) !!! And with yellow at 5 you might be adding two turns to everything!!! How is that not the best defensive ability in the game?
    I Think your math is a Little off regardin RHulk since Peggy shouldn't affect his 18 green AP threshhold, so it's 10+12 instead of 7+11, or just 18 green without the help of Purple.
    On the other hand I see no requirement that Peggy takes damage Before the passive kicks in - it should be "on" from the very first turn.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Are you serious????? Even with the 5/3/5 her yellow adds an extra turn to everything, but for the best attacks/combos it adds two!!! The iceman blue 6+6 now becomes 9+9, the Rhulk 7+11 now 10+14, Nova 7+6 now 10+9 !!! Cyclops 5+10(10) now 8+13(10) !!! And with yellow at 5 you might be adding two turns to everything!!! How is that not the best defensive ability in the game?
    I Think your math is a Little off regardin RHulk since Peggy shouldn't affect his 18 green AP threshhold, so it's 10+12 instead of 7+11, or just 18 green without the help of Purple.
    On the other hand I see no requirement that Peggy takes damage Before the passive kicks in - it should be "on" from the very first turn.

    You are right with Rhulk

    Special Tile - 0 AP - (PASSIVE) When Hero’s health is greater then 50%, enemies powers cost 2 AP more.

    Anf the life requirement is also the other way around, so I was wrong too, I read it when Peggy's life is lower than 50%, but it is clearly the other way around which makes the ability much stronger, because she starts with the ability in use.
  • Piro_plock
    Piro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
    Polares wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Are you serious????? Even with the 5/3/5 her yellow adds an extra turn to everything, but for the best attacks/combos it adds two!!! The iceman blue 6+6 now becomes 9+9, the Rhulk 7+11 now 10+14, Nova 7+6 now 10+9 !!! Cyclops 5+10(10) now 8+13(10) !!! And with yellow at 5 you might be adding two turns to everything!!! How is that not the best defensive ability in the game?
    I Think your math is a Little off regardin RHulk since Peggy shouldn't affect his 18 green AP threshhold, so it's 10+12 instead of 7+11, or just 18 green without the help of Purple.
    On the other hand I see no requirement that Peggy takes damage Before the passive kicks in - it should be "on" from the very first turn.

    You are right with Rhulk, but Peggy yellow has a health requirement

    Special Tile - 0 AP - (PASSIVE) When Hero’s health is greater then 50%, enemies powers cost 2 AP more.
    Legendary Presence (passive)
    1. When Peggy's health > 50%, all enemy powers cost 2AP more
    2. 40%, 2AP
    3. 40%, 3AP
    4. 30%, 3AP
    5. 30%, 4AP (!!!)
    Exactly, greater than the threshold. So 100% health at the start means she raises the cost even on turn 1.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Piro_plock wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    Polares wrote:
    Are you serious????? Even with the 5/3/5 her yellow adds an extra turn to everything, but for the best attacks/combos it adds two!!! The iceman blue 6+6 now becomes 9+9, the Rhulk 7+11 now 10+14, Nova 7+6 now 10+9 !!! Cyclops 5+10(10) now 8+13(10) !!! And with yellow at 5 you might be adding two turns to everything!!! How is that not the best defensive ability in the game?
    I Think your math is a Little off regardin RHulk since Peggy shouldn't affect his 18 green AP threshhold, so it's 10+12 instead of 7+11, or just 18 green without the help of Purple.
    On the other hand I see no requirement that Peggy takes damage Before the passive kicks in - it should be "on" from the very first turn.

    You are right with Rhulk, but Peggy yellow has a health requirement

    Special Tile - 0 AP - (PASSIVE) When Hero’s health is greater then 50%, enemies powers cost 2 AP more.
    Legendary Presence (passive)
    1. When Peggy's health > 50%, all enemy powers cost 2AP more
    2. 40%, 2AP
    3. 40%, 3AP
    4. 30%, 3AP
    5. 30%, 4AP (!!!)
    Exactly, greater than the threshold. So 100% health at the start means she raises the cost even on turn 1.

    Yeah, yeah, I just eddited the comment I need to read more carefully icon_razz.gif

    Anyway, that makes her yellow even more OP !!!
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's a Conspiracy to sell more Health packs. Whenever possible, you want Peggy at full Health.
  • Orangecrush
    Orangecrush Posts: 119
    edited June 2016
    I can't fathom how anyone would argue that she isn't the best 4* toon hands down. She is the first truely defensive character that has a good single target damage ability. The only people who won't struggle with her all the time are people with high level 5* and even then, they will have some issues. Her PvP event will be a huge pain.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Really, after so many so characters that work well with him, it's about time we got the counter to Star-Lord we've all been waiting for.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    People really think about defense?

    There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.

    Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..

    As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    People really think about defense?

    There is only one defense in this game and that's a shield. Everything else is not worth considering.

    Offense wins matches but no matter how great your team is defensively the AI will ruin it so you'll still take way more losses than victory on defense. ..

    As for star Lord... Leave him alone lol. Pair him with a maxed switch and falcap and then tell me he's awful...

    Umm, Star-lord is still awful! Sure, if you custom build a team around him, he becomes passable. But there are so so many better teams you could be using instead.

    And yes, defense is less important that offense. But strong, ai-proof defensive characters are still a factor, especially when they can slow down the pace of offense.
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    Really, after so many so characters that work well with him, it's about time we got the counter to Star-Lord we've all been waiting for.

    Use Starlord red to add on 2 AP additional to enemy moves if they ever do somehow get the extra 4 AP to get over Peggy's yellow.

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