**** Peggy Carter (Captain America) ****

Vhailorx

BlackBoltRocks wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

The good news:

Pending more details, the powers precis suggests this character will be very strong.

The bad news:

Red/yellow/blue is already well reported in the 4* and 5* play space.

Power creep seems very real. This is the KK/Cylcops/IF/Cage phase of 4* growth. The value of older, 'pretty good' 4*s is plummeting (kingpin, carnage, ant-man, flaptain, etc). I would think the smart play is to not champ them at all and save iso for the top tiers and the power creep-y new releases (***vhailorx said irritably having champed kingpin 2 weeks ago. . . ).

Dang i was planning to champ Elektra and Invisible Woman

They weren't worth champ'ing before (on which we agree if am reading the tone of your post correctly!). But this recent string of strong 4* releases. Is rendering the next tier up in 4* land almost as irrelevant. Why bother rustling up CD tiles for Kingpin's black when Kate bishop's does about as much damage/ap and is less contingent. And punisher max does wildly more damage if you generate enough strike tiles (which already provide a benefit to you and aren't consumed by punisher's black).

Avarice13

Thorin radd wrote:

Avarice13 wrote:

TLCstormz wrote:

Are there any characters in the have who DO use Cap's colors?

4* Thor, 3* Magneto and 1* Iron Man are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.

There's no way it's another iron man and I highly doubt it's a 4* Magneto because it says A Hero Reimagined.. Mags isn't much on the hero spectrum lol. And 2 4* Thors would be strange plus the powers don't fit Thor if you ask me.

Captain Hydra is my vote.

Also 4Clops, Flaptain Im40, 5StarIM, vision,

Thank you. I totally spaced those ones out.

4* Captain Marvel i guess could be a possibility. But im still voting captain hydra

atomzed

Vhailorx wrote:

They weren't worth champ'ing before (on which we agree if am reading the tone of your post correctly!). But this recent string of strong 4* releases. Is rendering the next tier up in 4* land almost as irrelevant. Why bother rustling up CD tiles for Kingpin's black when Kate bishop's does about as much damage/ap and is less contingent. And punisher max does wildly more damage if you generate enough strike tiles (which already provide a benefit to you and aren't consumed by punisher's black).

I agree that there is an obvious power creep.

But I disagree with the advice to hold the iso and stop maxing these older 4* characters.

Key reason being that it will typically take 6 -9 months before an average player cover max the new characters.

I tracked my progress and it took me about 8 months to cover max X23, and 6 months to cover max Miles and GR each. It may take longer for the 3* transition or 4* transition players to max their characters.

And while you are holding on the iso, you are losing the chance of using a max char in pve (at all times) and in pvp (especially when boosted).

I feel that the strong mid tier 4* still have a place in the meta. KP was especially useful for me when he was boosted. Hence, if a player has a max tier 2 4* that he can champ AND his tier 1 4* is still a few covers away, it is perfectly sensible to max those tier 2 4*.

(Not to mention it is incredibly boring to be storing iso for 6-9 months waiting for that final cover of JG/iceman/imhb to drop)

My 2 cents.

Vhailorx

Atomzed:

If I were advising someone looking to move into 4* play today, I would say that it's probably worth using iso to max the first few top or mid tier 4*s that you get covered. Have access to boosted 4* champs makes a significant difference right now, as they are so strong relative to other boosted characters. So going from boosted 3*s to occasionally having boosted 4*s is a massive jump. And it's always worth using iso to level up top tier 4*s as soon as possible.

The question is what to do if you already have some 4* champs (especially if they are strong ones), and are starting to fully cover some mid tier 4*s like thing and KP. And I am starting to think that's no longer worth it. The marginal added value of an extra boosted 4* every once in a while doesn't seem worth the massive opportunity cost in iso. Yes, it takes 6-8 months of steady play to max a 4*, but it also takes most players months to get enough iso to champ a single 4*. I think that once you can play at the 4* tier in PVP and pve, it's no longer worth using resources to level any more 4*s above 200 unless they are top tier. A new character (i.e. another 360k iso hole) comes along every 2 weeks. And even grinding like crazy it's impossible to earn iso at that pace.

atomzed

Vhailorx wrote:

The question is what to do if you already have some 4* champs (especially if they are strong ones), and are starting to fully cover some mid tier 4*s like thing and KP. And I am starting to think that's no longer worth it. The marginal added value of an extra boosted 4* every once in a while doesn't seem worth the massive opportunity cost in iso. Yes, it takes 6-8 months of steady play to max a 4*, but it also takes most players months to get enough iso to champ a single 4*. I think that once you can play at the 4* tier in PVP and pve, it's no longer worth using resources to level any more 4*s above 200 unless they are top tier. A new character (i.e. another 360k iso hole) comes along every 2 weeks. And even grinding like crazy it's impossible to earn iso at that pace.

We are in agreement with your first para about maxing the first TOP or mid tier 4* asap.

But the second para, I don't quite get it.

Let's try another route. What will you advise me?

I currently have 14 champ 4* (JG, IMHB, rulk, cyclops, x23, xfw, KP, miles, xdp, thora, thing, fury, Antman and iceman).

I have a level 420 OML, and my Phoenix and SS are at 7-8 covers. The other 5* are way below viability.

So if I read you correctly, your suggestion is that I hold my iso and wait until I get the latest 4* max out, which can be 6-9 months later. Am I right?

(Genuine curiousity, cos your playing focus is very different from mine and I like to understand it better. )

Edit: forgot to include iceman, thanks ojsp! Fellow mpqer in shard 1, heh

spectator

Keeping an eye on the boost list and champing more unique characters is probably the better way of going about it. Kingpin for example is a great character to max simply because he is the only yellow accelerator in the game. If you're going to hoard iso for 6 to 8 months, you may find yourself quitting before you get to max a new high tier 4* simply due to boredom or lack of progression outside of your iso count going up

Vhailorx

Not quite atomzed,

I think you should be stockpiling iso for
(1) the next good 5* that you can level up to 400ish (Phoenix would be a good option!); or
(2) the next really good 4* that you cover (i would say that list is currently iceman, cyclops, rulk, jg, imhb, nova, quake, punisher. And probably x-23, xpool, and thing since they have very useful passives. Recent releases may be added to the list when the community gets more experience with them).

My thinking is that there will never be enough iso to level everyone (unless demiurge makes some big changes). And once a player has a core of 3-5 decent 4* champs, the marginal value of adding another mid tier champ is really small.

Sure, it will take months to cover new players, and it might seem silly to sell of excess covers for a mid tier 4* when you have the iso to champ them. But the opportunity cost is too high if the new 4* champ won't really change your ability to achieve your in-game goals.

I don't care about latest per se, I care about best. But it Sure seems that demiurge is going to make newest 4*s the strongest via power creep. So what used to be a a solid 4* (e.g. kingpin) is no longer all that great. Just like BP was great when he went into the vault in fall 2014, but was second tier when he cameout in the spring of 2015. The newer, more powerful 3*s (kk, cyclops, if, cage) had rendered him meh. Fine if you had him built already, but not worth chasing when kk was right there doing most of the same things better.

Sorry for the rambling explanation. I hope it is clear enough.

Vhailorx

spectator wrote:

Keeping an eye on the boost list and champing more unique characters is probably the better way of going about it. Kingpin for example is a great character to max simply because he is the only yellow accelerator in the game. If you're going to hoard iso for 6 to 8 months, you may find yourself quitting before you get to max a new high tier 4* simply due to boredom or lack of progression outside of your iso count going up

KP is a great example on which I can speak with personal experience, I built up a decent stockpile of iso during civil war and the the double xp event and recently had to choose between champ'ing KP, or ant-man (for 60k more iso), or standing pat and waiting for one of my next wave of top tier 4*s to get 13/13 covers (cyclops, jg, iceman, thing all at 10 or 11 over the next two weeks, nova at 8).

I took the middle path and champed kp. He's fine. But I kinda regret it. Have an extra 20k body while he was boosted was nice. But I already had better options for just about every game scenario (even with only 4 other 4* champs: imhb, 4*thor, xfw, xpool).

But the opportunity cost was fairly high. KP doesn't really let me do anything that I couldn't do before I champed him. So the marginal benefit of champ'ing him is fairly small. But, if I get a lucky couple of pulls over the next few weeks I could champ 1 or 2 clear 4* studs and not have the iso to champ them immediately. That's a bit a guaranteed outcome at all, but if it happens than the opportunity cost of champ'ing KP would be very high in retrospect.

So the bottom line is that my current plan is to stockpile iso and eschew all but the best 4*s for the foreseeable future. Once I am sitting on enough iso to easily champ the next strong 4*s that i might cover in the short term, I will feel more comfortable spending iso on mid tier 4*s and champ'ing my last few 3*s.

Crowl

Avarice13 wrote:

4* Captain Marvel i guess could be a possibility. But im still voting captain hydra

Captain Marvel is at the forefront of Civil War 2 and doesn't have anything over 3* so probably a better option than a character already has so many variants including 5*.

Crowl

Vhailorx wrote:

So the bottom line is that my current plan is to stockpile iso and eschew all but the best 4*s for the foreseeable future. Once I am sitting on enough iso to easily champ the next strong 4*s that i might cover in the short term, I will feel more comfortable spending iso on mid tier 4*s and champ'ing my last few 3*s.

I am doing something similar, I have a bunch of champed 4*'s already so have hoarded enough iso to instantly take another to 4* when I get the missing covers on certain characters and using the iso on top of that to keep leveling the others more steadily.

spectator

Vhailorx wrote:

spectator wrote:

Keeping an eye on the boost list and champing more unique characters is probably the better way of going about it. Kingpin for example is a great character to max simply because he is the only yellow accelerator in the game. If you're going to hoard iso for 6 to 8 months, you may find yourself quitting before you get to max a new high tier 4* simply due to boredom or lack of progression outside of your iso count going up

KP is a great example on which I can speak with personal experience, I built up a decent stockpile of iso during civil war and the the double xp event and recently had to choose between champ'ing KP, or ant-man (for 60k more iso), or standing pat and waiting for one of my next wave of top tier 4*s to get 13/13 covers (cyclops, jg, iceman, thing all at 10 or 11 over the next two weeks, nova at 8).

I took the middle path and champed kp. He's fine. But I kinda regret it. Have an extra 20k body while he was boosted was nice. But I already had better options for just about every game scenario (even with only 4 other 4* champs: imhb, 4*thor, xfw, xpool).

But the opportunity cost was fairly high. KP doesn't really let me do anything that I couldn't do before I champed him. So the marginal benefit of champ'ing him is fairly small. But, if I get a lucky couple of pulls over the next few weeks I could champ 1 or 2 clear 4* studs and not have the iso to champ them immediately. That's a bit a guaranteed outcome at all, but if it happens than the opportunity cost of champ'ing KP would be very high in retrospect.

So the bottom line is that my current plan is to stockpile iso and eschew all but the best 4*s for the foreseeable future. Once I am sitting on enough iso to easily champ the next strong 4*s that i might cover in the short term, I will feel more comfortable spending iso on mid tier 4*s and champ'ing my last few 3*s.

It sounds like you regret spending the iso that you dont really have a better use for then and still do not have a better use for now. The problem with hoarding is there will always be something better to use it on in the future and you end up never using it. Reminds me of how i tend to play jrpg games, i never use health potion because i figured ill need them for a bigger battle and by the time i feel comfortable using them, they have little effect on the state of my current characters.

Blahahah

3/5/5 might be good with Drax.
He can provide that focus fire on the unstunned target, and the 3 turns would actually let him set up his purple.
Plus slower opponents is good for Drax, and they only share red (which is marginal on this person but great on drax).
Only color missing is I think Green, and there's a few good ones for that.

Vhailorx

Spectator, you are stating the downside risk of any strategy centered on stockpiling resources. But i am not advocating hoarding for ever, or hoarding for hoarding's sake. My,main point is that if demiurge is going to release stronger 4*s as we reach the end of that tier, then we players have to adjust our value perceptions about mid tier 4*s and prioritize resources accordingly. Iso is too scarce to do much else.

Quebbster

spectator wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

spectator wrote:

Keeping an eye on the boost list and champing more unique characters is probably the better way of going about it. Kingpin for example is a great character to max simply because he is the only yellow accelerator in the game. If you're going to hoard iso for 6 to 8 months, you may find yourself quitting before you get to max a new high tier 4* simply due to boredom or lack of progression outside of your iso count going up

KP is a great example on which I can speak with personal experience, I built up a decent stockpile of iso during civil war and the the double xp event and recently had to choose between champ'ing KP, or ant-man (for 60k more iso), or standing pat and waiting for one of my next wave of top tier 4*s to get 13/13 covers (cyclops, jg, iceman, thing all at 10 or 11 over the next two weeks, nova at 8).

I took the middle path and champed kp. He's fine. But I kinda regret it. Have an extra 20k body while he was boosted was nice. But I already had better options for just about every game scenario (even with only 4 other 4* champs: imhb, 4*thor, xfw, xpool).

But the opportunity cost was fairly high. KP doesn't really let me do anything that I couldn't do before I champed him. So the marginal benefit of champ'ing him is fairly small. But, if I get a lucky couple of pulls over the next few weeks I could champ 1 or 2 clear 4* studs and not have the iso to champ them immediately. That's a bit a guaranteed outcome at all, but if it happens than the opportunity cost of champ'ing KP would be very high in retrospect.

So the bottom line is that my current plan is to stockpile iso and eschew all but the best 4*s for the foreseeable future. Once I am sitting on enough iso to easily champ the next strong 4*s that i might cover in the short term, I will feel more comfortable spending iso on mid tier 4*s and champ'ing my last few 3*s.

It sounds like you regret spending the iso that you dont really have a better use for then and still do not have a better use for now. The problem with hoarding is there will always be something better to use it on in the future and you end up never using it. Reminds me of how i tend to play jrpg games, i never use health potion because i figured ill need them for a bigger battle and by the time i feel comfortable using them, they have little effect on the state of my current characters.

Heh, I recognize that feeling. I tend to be surprised by how many potions I have at the end of the game because I never use them.
I'm trying to decide if I should use my ISO stash to max and champion Ghost Rider or to softcap my 3/5/3 Punisher Max at 229. I was leaning towards Ghost Rider, but now Punisher looks more appealing again...

spectator

Vhailorx wrote:

Spectator, you are stating the downside risk of any strategy centered on stockpiling resources. But i am not advocating hoarding for ever, or hoarding for hoarding's sake. My,main point is that if demiurge is going to release stronger 4*s as we reach the end of that tier, then we players have to adjust our value perceptions about mid tier 4*s and prioritize resources accordingly. Iso is too scarce to do much else.

I dont think anyone ever begins hoarding for hoarding's sake, it just becomes routine. As you have stated, with power creep newer 4* are generally a cut above the older releases and if you constantly re-evaluate the value of any character, you will find you will never level anyone since getting 13 covers of any particular 4* takes at least six months. Plus as it has been previously stated by others in the forum that if you begin your 4* transition today, chances are you are more likely to get a 5* to a usable level well before you complete a 4*.

The way i see it, its probably never a good idea to hoard iso waiting for a high tier character. Early transitioner should max any decent 4* they can get because most champed 4* are useful especially when boosted and having a champed 4* makes said person more competitive in pvp. Those nearing the end of their transitioners probably benefit very little from high end characters anyway and are really just biding their time until the next 5* cover comes along

atomzed

Vhailorx wrote:

Not quite atomzed,

I think you should be stockpiling iso for
(1) the next good 5* that you can level up to 400ish (Phoenix would be a good option!); or
(2) the next really good 4* that you cover (i would say that list is currently iceman, cyclops, rulk, jg, imhb, nova, quake, punisher. And probably x-23, xpool, and thing since they have very useful passives. Recent releases may be added to the list when the community gets more experience with them).

You misread my post. I already champ those 14 characters. If you want to know who I had cover but not champ, those heroes include Carnage, Ghost Rider, Elektra, IW, Chulk, Falcap, Starlord and a few others I can't remember.

Regarding your advice 1, I thought about it and decided against it. Simply because the 5* acquisition is too random.

My oml was at 2/1/5 for a Long time. He was softcap at 390 for 3-4 months. No luck in getting any of the covers even though I use cp all on classic tokens.

In the 3-4 months while waiting for OML covers, I champ at least 4 mid tier 4* (I think they were x23, miles, iceman and antman ). Iceman is TOP tier, so no debate about it. I didn't regret the rest, because I can use it in various situations... And it gives me variety.

My thinking is that there will never be enough iso to level everyone (unless demiurge makes some big changes). And once a player has a core of 3-5 decent 4* champs, the marginal value of adding another mid tier champ is really small.

The marginal value may be low, but I feel that the new champs break the monotony and gives me something to look forward to. If I have been playing the same characters during the interval of covering my oml, I would have probably quit.

Sure, it will take months to cover new players, and it might seem silly to sell of excess covers for a mid tier 4* when you have the iso to champ them. But the opportunity cost is too high if the new 4* champ won't really change your ability to achieve your in-game goals.

Is the opportunity cost really high? I don't think so.

In the last month, I received the black oml cover from daily rewards. At the same time, the latest pve test gave me 5 x23 covers. By your account, I should sell the x23 covers because she is mid tier and max oml immediately.

But my experience is that champing x23 didn't set me back too much. After I champ x23, I only took 2 weeks to soft cap my oml. That didn't set me back too much.

In any case, Vhal it is a good discussion. We can agree to disagree:)

Monochromize

Well i was shown wrong. But i'm super psyched for it!

We_are_Venom

When did Carter become Captain America?

Quebbster

Quite a pleasant surprise. Unfortunate to have her released in a mid-week event though as my grinding ability is a lot lower then.
The wife was quite pleased though, Agent Carter is one of our favorite shows.

fmftint

Impressive @1 cover