[PVE] scaling [Merged Thread]

Moon Roach

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

I've checked in with the devs on the scaling and I'll let you know what the word is when I have it. In the meantime, can we please turn the flames back down to simmer?

Thank you.

So that would be just below boiling point?

DrStrange-616

MPQ_Kerb wrote:

This reply may cause any flames that were simmering to flare up. Just a guess.

10 points to Gryffindor for anyone who recognizes this.

udonomefoo

Smudge

Demiurge_[bagman] wrote:

Thanks for the (many) comments and observations. Mission difficulty is constantly being debated and changed. It's a hard problem (but you probably inferred that by how much tuning happens).

We're taking the feedback in, thanks for your posts.

In other words, "We're seeing a lot of people with 5* level rosters now, and we have no idea how to properly handle the monster we've created. As a result, EVERYONE can just get their events scaled into oblivion, and we'll just figure it out later."

"Oh, and by the way, sorry it sucks so much. We're not going to change anything, but we're 'listening.'"

udonomefoo

DrStrange-616 wrote:

10 points to Gryffindor for anyone who recognizes this.

Is that Col Mustard in the back?

DrStrange-616

udonomefoo wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

10 points to Gryffindor for anyone who recognizes this.

Is that Col Mustard in the back?

Cthulhu

Lots of stuff to read! We are reviewing this as well and have heard it's way too difficult. Will update when and if we can take care of anything to make it less difficult. I haven't read all the comments yet, but will review each page and discuss tomorrow.

Cthulhu

JVReal

Smudge wrote:

Demiurge_[bagman] wrote:

Thanks for the (many) comments and observations. Mission difficulty is constantly being debated and changed. It's a hard problem (but you probably inferred that by how much tuning happens).

We're taking the feedback in, thanks for your posts.

In other words, "We're seeing a lot of people with 5* level rosters now, and we have no idea how to properly handle the monster we've created. As a result, EVERYONE can just get their events scaled into oblivion, and we'll just figure it out later."

"Oh, and by the way, sorry it sucks so much. We're not going to change anything, but we're 'listening.'"

Listening for another 5 days and 11 hours.

ClydeFrog76

Cthulhu wrote:

We are reviewing this as well and have heard it's way too difficult.

Playtest.

Also, playtest.

Furthermore, playtest.

Esheris

Just thought I'd mention, we aren't beta testers. Maybe try to find some.

I'm sure your player base would love to have events that are polished (or more so than now). I know I'm tired of testing things that aren't fun.

smkspy

Love the devs/forum guys telling us to dial back the rage when a game stops being fun. Rage should only increase cause we're the people playing and/or paying to make the game more enjoyable.


Good job trying to lose your customers d3, very very smart.

Smudge

Cthulhu wrote:

Lots of stuff to read! We are reviewing this as well and have heard it's way too difficult. Will update when and if we can take care of anything to make it less difficult. I haven't read all the comments yet, but will review each page and discuss tomorrow.

Cthulhu

Thank you for the reply, Cthulhu. This is at least worded more encouragingly.

If you would like some good, constructive feedback that is not pure rage, here is something I think the dev team might find interesting. Check out aesthetocyst's thread regarding the scaling people are currently seeing. There is some actual raw data in there.

Aesthetocyst is definitely much better at number crunching than I am, but from just a quick glossing over of the numbers, the new Gauntlet is definitely favoring people who have higher leveled 5* characters, maybe 4*. The node levels stay underneath the max levels for those players' rosters for a longer period of time. For someone like me, who only has a single level 270 4* (that isn't boosted) and the rest just 5* and a few boosted 3*s hovering around 240-260, we're already seeing the levels on the enemies surpass our highest level characters in sub 1 of 3!

I can't comment on previous runs of Gauntlet reliably from memory, but I'm pretty sure the first sub never went over level 140 the last time it ran, at least not for me, and then it dialed back 20-40 levels for the start of the second sub. The second sub starts higher than the end of the first now...

Hopefully this helps. It doesn't have to always be rage around here, I promise!

Stax the Foyer

Demiurge_[bagman] wrote:

Thanks for the (many) comments and observations. Mission difficulty is constantly being debated and changed. It's a hard problem (but you probably inferred that by how much tuning happens).

We're taking the feedback in, thanks for your posts.

Thanks for the communication, Bagman (and Chthulu).

I've only played a single node of Gauntlet (the only one I will play, with the current scaling, as I just wanted to check boost levels), and the first node in the third round (locked, but visible) is more than 50 levels above the highest level in my roster.

With that level of difficulty, and no corresponding increase in rewards, I won't be playing. For the same reason that I didn't play any of the new test PvEs. If scaling on this level becomes the norm, without similar scaling in rewards, I'll be giving up on PvE altogether. That will tie off an already constricted resource flow, and it seems like that would lead to overall player disengagement.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to accomplish with this level of scaling. It certainly isn't accomplishing your previously stated goal that a high-level team should provide an advantage. Most importantly from my point of view, though, it isn't fun.

When I compare the rewards I see in other games to the tight-fisted rewards here, the grass in some other games looks greener by the day. This isn't sour grapes, I'm sure you know I'm a loyal customer, and I've tried to be even-handed in my feedback.

Challenge is fine. Rewards are fun. But rewards should increase with increased challenge, and right now you're only changing one side of that equation. It's becoming a pattern, and the more it happens, the less heard we feel as a playerbase.

Cthulhu

We do playtest, and we aren't asking our players to playtest. I have been getting destroyed since I do not own any 5 star characters and only own one 4 star antman cover (in civil war i couldn't beat iron man level 3). I'm discussing how hard it is for people in my situation. But as with everything it will take a little time to figure it out so there is a good balance for all players.

We have had a lot of great conversations and will be doing all we can. All I can do is say we are sorry if you are having a bad experience, that is not at all any of our intention.

cthulhu

Cthulhu

Thank you guys! I will definitely read the post above to get more info!

Cthulhu

snlf25

Challenge is fun, Stax but this isn't challenge. This is Demiurge_Gandalf unequivocally declaring "You Shall Not Pass!!"

JamesV

I can respect the difficulty in trying to balance the difficulty of the game. I think the frustration really ties into the reward system (as many have pointed out).

If I am fighting level 330 characters with level 270s (or below) in order to earn a 2 star cover that is no longer a rewarding experience. That's not even just frustrating. That feels literally like I'm being held in contempt. Now that's the nature of the beast with progression rewards (you have to earn 1 to earn the next obviously). But when the difficulty curve is already above me before I'm even approaching usable rewards, I'm not sure what the point of playing is.

As an addendum, in respect to the difficulty, it always feels like the tests are turned up to 11 on the burner and then dialed back down until whatever internal goal is hit, which on one hand I can kind of understand (thought it does often feel like a "well 10 doesn't feel so bad in comparison to 11" type result). But on the other hand, that has begun to feel like a punishment. Is 11 okay? No. Is 10 okay? No. I'm not saying if 11 is bad you drop to 1. But if 8 is the sweet spot, going 11, 10, 9... That's a lot of bad experiences.

Sometimes it's okay to be like "11 didn't work. Let's try 8. 8 was too easy, let's move up to 9." etc.

Cthulhu

I 100% agree! I promise!

cthulhu

jffdougan

DrStrange-616 wrote:

MPQ_Kerb wrote:

This reply may cause any flames that were simmering to flare up. Just a guess.

10 points to Gryffindor for anyone who recognizes this.

It's the late Madeline Kahn as Miss Scarlet in Clue: the Movie. Martin Mull as Colonel Mustard is in the background behind her.

firethorne

snlf25 wrote:

Challenge is fun, Stax but this isn't challenge. This is Demiurge_Gandalf unequivocally declaring "You Shall Not Pass!!"

Agreed. Seeing enemies on wilderness survival that were leveled above my entire roster, including all boosted characters...

Let's just say, it has me wanting to reenact a scene from Guardians for the devs.