PVE Scaling Feedback & New Test : Prodigal Sun

DiscoStucat

This new system is slightly better, but still horrible at it's premise. You are obviously determined to make these changes and that sucks. You are showing no respect or regard to your hard core player base and this will be your undoing. You claim that you are doing this to reduce the grind and that is a laughable bunch of ****. You are changing from 3 clears and an hour grind at the end of the time period that the player chooses themselves to be the most convenient, to 6 to 7 clears and still grind at the end. I had 7 clears on each node of the last sub event and had a grind at the end only to finish in the top 40. God help us when the 4 star reward events star with this **** new system. If this system continues I will be left in the dust because I have a family/job/life. But you continue to show that you don't care about that. Just keep on ignoring the pleas of your long term base, keep dumping 4* rewards on us on every holiday, keep putting awful new characters out like howard the duck and 5 spiderman variations. Keep alienating your long term players and I promise the new players will stop coming in as well. I would say I hope that you take my thoughts into consideration, but if I know you guys you already quit reading.
If it matters to you, I am and Alliance Commander and am on day 898 of my daily drop.
P.S. FIX THE CHAT!!! If you are looking for something to make changes to, try fixing that!
P.P.S. No more Heroic events. Nobody likes them except for you.

Crowl

Disco Stucat wrote:

P.P.S. No more Heroic events. Nobody likes them except for you.

I like heroics sometimes, they live and die by the roster you get, the last one had a huge amount of special tile generators and loads of Doc Ock nodes that just made the roster seem that much worse.

like1tiger

I really hate the changes to this PvE I don't have the time for 6 clears and a grind. Don't even have the time for just the 6 clears everyday. 9 nodes 6 clears = 54 nodes everyday.
This is not even including the grind. Its such a huge time commitment to the game and we get no extra rewards at all. Why make this game such a time sink?

I'm a married with kids working man who loves this game but now can't play it. I used to clear b4 work then at late lunch then at night with room for an hour grind. I used to hit t20 every event.
Now I need to find all this extra time to double my clears and I just don't have it.

My alliance is a t20 alliance and about 5 of them are actually playing this even because they are bored and don't want to do it. This is not a good change and everyone I talk to hates it. The scaling changes help but why change the whole format and most importantly why double the required time to hit progression and give us the same **** rewards?

TaoSpoons

When I logged in tonight, I intended to post a more thoughtful criticism than what I'm about to regarding the current direction of MPQ with emphasis on my thoughts of the new PVE design.

My problem is that I'm too burnt out to care.

I ground hard on the new format in Prodigal Sun. My goal was to test what it would require of me to place well. Beginning-of-sub grinds now require between 2 hours 45 minutes and 3 hours of my time. End-of-sub grind is an additional two hours. I managed three days of this in a seven day event. Didn't even get all the way through the test.

I'm not aiming for top PvE placement anymore. And I mean across any event whatsoever. I've observed the developers long enough to know when an idea seizes them, they're unable to look past it. This new structure will be implemented; the writing is on the wall.

I stopped trying to place well in PvP awhile back because I decided the effort wasn't worth the cost. While I could retool my roster and try that again, I don't predict any great success from it. This raises a pair of questions.

If I'm not aiming for top placement in PvP and PvE and that's where the rewards that actually progress a roster are available, what's the point of playing any part of the game? And what's the point of spending money on the game if I get no satisfaction out of playing?

The developers' desire to "challenge" players has made me ask myself whether playing the game is worth my time. I know I'm not alone.

Regardless of the actual data they may collect, I don't see this test as anything other than a failure.

Gmax101

Frankly, for me (as a end of 3 transitioner) the scaling, the only thing I am judging this test on, is about right.

I feel like I can use virtually my entire roster for some of the fights, and only need my highest level characters on the last 5/6/7 clears of the hardest nodes...

and at that point the challenge of coming up with a decent team is actually fun (for me)

So I would be happy for the SCALING to be left as is...

now if you could fix the following as well, that would be helpful...

- Node rewards (I do not need more critical boosts and 70 ISO for a level 250+ fight is stupid)
- Survivor nodes, make a decision on the rewards structure... personally I like the EOTS format of big initial reward and then maybe introduce rewards for later clears.
- Progression... either a) just set the current target at a sensible 3/4 clears per node and be done with it (Should be easy without rubberbanding), or b) eliminate PVE in total and reset the progression rewards to include the traditional reward covers


As for the grind... I don't care about it. But it does seem to be too much for many players, and that should probably be looked at. But eliminating PVE element entirely would solve that too...

Smudge

I'm going to repeat myself after having made a decision on this test this time around.

This method of play is thoroughly and unequivocally boring.

I've decided that I'm only going to play the hardest and the 4* node for the 2 CP, then I'm done.

Having to play each node through steadily increasing difficulty 5 or 6 times each just to get to top progression is not progress from the old model. It's regression.

I'm a progression player, not a placement player. I hit #6 in Webbed Wonder because the timers matched my schedule pretty well. Otherwise, I'm content with T100 and my 25 CP. Making me play more time (the opposite of the stated goals of these tests, or so I thought) is actually building my resolve to play less. I'm not just saying this, either. Anyone in my alliance will vouch that I'm only at 17,000 points now, and a good chunk of that is because I had to grind the CP nodes on the last sub 7 times each before they finally coughed up the CP.

Not. Fun. At. All. #grinddownforwhat

simonsez

I'm pretty sure I have more than 5 characters on my roster. But every time you run one of these damn tests, I might as well not, since you've turned PvE into such an abhorrent slog, the last thing I want to do is drag it out any further by using different characters, other than the ones that'll get me done with it asap. Isn't it bad enough that you've already turned PvP into the OML/Phoenix show? Can't one of the game modes allow and encourage deeper roster use?

drcassino

The difficulty is a little closer to what I'd like to see. It's pretty easy - all my nodes are "trivial" - but that's mostly driven by my maxed, boosted Rulk. I'm concerned that if I didn't have the featured 4* maxed, or if it was Cho, or Mr. Fantastic, these nodes would be very difficult. I suppose that this is what the devs meant by ensuring that strong rosters have an advantage, but it could be problematic, depending on the boosted characters, in the future. As other posters have noted, the number of clears to stay on pace to get the command points have gone up dramatically. Generally, in the past, cp pace was 3 clears of each node and change. Now, it's somewhere around 5 clears and change, I like that I can go to the gym, get on the elliptical for an hour, and be 80% done with my PVE for the day, but that's still a pretty dramatic increase in the number of clears needed to get the cp, and I'd encourage the devs to increase the relative point payoffs of the harder and required character nodes to ensure that players don't need to go through what will likely be very difficult nodes 5 or more times.

wymtime

blargrx wrote:

scottee wrote:

Before:
3 clears spaced 8 hours apart, then final grind.

Current test:
6 clears whenever you want, then final grind.

It should be:
3 clears whenever you want, then final grind.

Do that with the current or similar scaling and a top progression that is reasonable and everyone will love you.

Can everyone just keep reposting this and upvoting it until it happens

I will continue on this post above. Scaling has gotten a lot better but the clear 6 nodes then grind at the end sucks. It feels like I am grinding prologue battles for ISO but with harder nodes. The point of having refresh timers to begin with was so players were not grinding nodes down right away and now you are encouraging that. The no refresh timers is having the opposit effect thst you want

JackTenrec

I suspect that the main reason that I didn't get curb stomped by the scaling is that I was so tired of replaying nodes that I stopped after 6 clears (also, the enemy compositions were a lot less ridiculous than some previous tests). Still, even doing all that resulted in something like a T200 finish and still well shy of LT progression, when under the original system I usually only had time for one clear plus a fair amount of essential grinding and could usually finish within T100, possibly T50. So, the frustration level has clearly decreased, but I think I'm forced to play a lot more for inferior rewards. Yes, additional node ISO is nice, but until I actually complete my roster, covers/HP/CP are where the real progression is.

Ducky

So I just checked my t10 overall.

6/10 are 2* teams.

3/10 are 3* teams.

1/10 is an actual vet roster with 4* teams.

So much for getting high end rosters to place well. Working as intended?

BlackSheep101

It may just be the effect of having a 1/5/5 Red Hulk at a high level, but this test is tons easier than the last two. Before starting, I was very concerned about being able to reach top progression when I saw that they'd pushed out the score by 20k. All of my nodes started out "trivial" and most stay that way through 7 clears.

I have no interest in placement, so I can't comment about the effects on that aspect of PVE, but it's been nice to be able to mine out the ISO rewards at will. If things continue along these lines, I should also be able to get the 25 CP with a comfortable amount of effort.

pheregas

I do think the scaling is better this time around, but in these test environments, I have these horrible feeling at all times that I have no idea how I am doing towards gaining the final progression prize.

In normal circumstances, as a general rule, if you did your 8-hour clears, then one to two more clears afterwards, you'd have no problem achieving final progression.

However, even between different runs of the same event, final progression values are changing between runs.

With that change, combined with any arbitrary inflation caused by the 6-play then 24 hour timer, it is very difficult to keep track of where I am in an event point-wise.

I've been playing every node 4-6 times thus far, but who knows if I am ahead of pace, or behind, since who knows how many points the next few subs will be worth.

In the first test, I'm super glad I ground down in the beginning as I had to grind the whole way through and reached progression. In the second test, they super-lowered the final progression, and then basically took the last day off. In this one???? Who knows?

In summary, please give us an official word on what you, D3, think is the gold standard calculation for achieving max progression. It would be beneficial to everyone and not mess with the (silly) competitive placement of PVE as those that are trying for placement are going to go beyond max progression anyway. And those of us that just don't give a hoot about Falcon covers can just be done at progression and leave placement to the people who need/want it.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Bryan Lambert

So for Prodigal Sun, I've been doing four full clears plus CP grinding per sub.

The positive - because of the new scaling and the play whenever you want model, this "feels" like about the same amount of play time I was putting in before. With four clears, the trivial nodes are still effectively trivial - I can clear all three of them without taking enough damage to warrant a health pack. The essentials are a little easier, and the three former "hard" nodes start out way easier and end up around where they used to. So the clears take a little less time overall, and because I can knock two out in a row if I have a little extra time, it doesn't seem to arduous.

The negative - these four clears plus CP grinding put me well below 100th place in each sub and well below 150th place in the event overall. Progression seems within reach here, wince I've hit the three-star reward with half the event left, but if this new system goes into effect, PLEASE consider either reworking the placement rewards again for new 4* releases or, even better, just rethink new 4* releases entirely. Did it really go so horribly all the times you ensured that everyone got at least one cover of a new 4* release? Did token sales drop precipitously?

If you're still committed, for whatever inexplicable reason, to seeing how much people will play the game for placement rewards and the more rapid roster-building that comes with top PvE/Alliance placement, at least throw a bone to people who've come to terms with how long it takes to build a new character and give us the one you'll make us need for the next essential node.

fmftint

DuckyV wrote:

So I just checked my t10 overall.

6/10 are 2* teams.

3/10 are 3* teams.

1/10 is an actual vet roster with 4* teams.

So much for getting high end rosters to place well. Working as intended?

To be fair, most vets either skipped or are only iso farming.
My T10 is
2☆: 0
3☆: 8
4☆: 1
5☆: 1

Crowl

DuckyV wrote:

So I just checked my t10 overall.

6/10 are 2* teams.

3/10 are 3* teams.

1/10 is an actual vet roster with 4* teams.

So much for getting high end rosters to place well. Working as intended?

Swap the 2* and 3* teams and that is what I am seeing in my event too, I wonder how much of that comes down to apathy over 7 day events when you have a high-end roster, the lack of interest in the 4* covers or the actual pve system itself.

BigBZ32

So, halfway through my observations have been mixed just like last run. I feel scaling has been fine. But I question whether it really is scaling or is it because my champed Rulk makes things too easy? I have a feeling if I don't have one of 4* boosted champed, I could have issues with my scaling and PvE becomes a health pack eater which is something I do not like and end up usually quitting PvE. I find no reason to grind for top 10 placement, so all I'm doing is 7 clears a node. It's not worth the amount of time needed to go for placement. For those that rely on PvE placement to progress, you have my sympathy. No timer again is great for me when doing this. Also, the progression is reasonable compared to previous events.

rastafari7

This is so freaking boring, it feels like we are playing prologue again!
My test after 4 days:
Each sub event 4 clears , and the nodes in the main cleared 4 times , exactly what I do in normal events.
In old system I'm almost always top 50 , this time I am rank 203 with 4,5hrs to go in 4th sub.
My score is 50.986 , there is no way I can make it to 25cp with this effort!
What are they thinking? People shouldn't spend 4-6hrs each day on a game like this.

Twysta

Stupid Pv[P]E

Smudge

BlackSheep101 wrote:

It may just be the effect of having a 1/5/5 Red Hulk at a high level, but this test is tons easier than the last two. Before starting, I was very concerned about being able to reach top progression when I saw that they'd pushed out the score by 20k. All of my nodes started out "trivial" and most stay that way through 7 clears.

Here is where I am fearful of the future. I don't have any of the high tier 4*s anywhere near useful level - my IMHB is 2/0/1 lvl 70, Rulk is 1/2/1 lvl 70. The only 4* I have that is amazing is 4Thor at optimal 5/3/5 lvl 270 right now. She kicked **** in the Howard events. My boosted 4s now? Not really that helpful. Rulk does a whopping 1900 with 18 green. I'd rather run my underleveled undercovered KK or GSBW in his place since they at least power themselves with that kind of Rulk damage output.

My nodes are all "trivial" too, except the last node, which starts with "easy" as the banner. However, my best characters are lvl 264 Doc Ock, 210 Luke (5/3/3), and 254 CMags. Sure, this group is nothing to sneeze at, but Mags is the only one with any kind of speed. After a couple clears of a node, the health boosts make time invested double. He can't KO even goons at 7k+ health with just match damage and a maxed Magnetized Projectiles anymore before the damage potential comes back at my team.

My Iron Fist is entirely underwhelming right now at 3/1/2, boosted to lvl 139.

By the time the last nodes have been hit a few times, my team can still keep up, but the time sink is very, very real. If I could powerhouse through the initial clears, it would be a different story. That's why I decided enough was enough this time. Give me back my boosted 4Thor with the IM40 battery, and I would be singing a different tune.

We're slaves to the boosted characters at some point along the way here, which is still not working as intended if you ask me.