PVE Scaling Feedback & New Test : Prodigal Sun

revskip

KGB wrote:

Like everyone else, the new scaling is great for me (roster is a mix of 2-3* characters around L110) as enemies start around L30-50 and finish around L115 if I do 7 clears.

A full clear for me takes around 20 minutes the fist time and 30 minutes by the 6th/7th clear (I don't have Ares or Rulk so can't do their nodes).

I too would prefer 3-4 full clears gets the progression reward.

That said, I suspect the Dev's deliberately made the progression reward require 6 clears. Not because they are sadistic but because they need us to do that many clears so that the scaling can be fully tested. If you could reach progression after 3 clears many would just do 3 clears and so there would be less data to analyze how the 4-7th clears were working out time/enemy level wise (as happened in the last test where many stopped after reaching a very easy progression reward). At least I hope that's the reason we are required to do 6+ clears this test

KGB

Pretty sure 4 clears and some change would get you progression in this event. I missed the first day entirely and am still going to hit the CP today without taking a single node past a check mark.

Still does seem grindy to have the 6 clear before the timer though, I prefer this new system but would love to see them just drop the crit boosts completely from the rewards and go with 5 rewards before the timer and a 6th that starts seeing point regression. That would eliminate 9 clears for me as I will never grind a node for just points. 70 iso might not be great but at least it is something, once I get check marks I never grind any further than that, placement be damned.

KGB

revskip wrote:

Pretty sure 4 clears and some change would get you progression in this event. I missed the first day entirely and am still going to hit the CP today without taking a single node past a check mark.

Wow, how are you getting so many points?

I only had time for 2 clears on day 1 but have done 6-7 on day 2&3 and have done 3 so far today. I'm only at 58K and project to 67K with 3 more clears today. Obviously missing out on Rulk/Ares nodes costing me a few K each day but I am still going to need 35K more on the final 2 days to make it.

KGB

Keegan

KGB wrote:

Obviously missing out on Rulk/Ares nodes costing me a few K each day but I am still going to need 35K more on the final 2 days to make it.

KGB

Without Ares and Rulk you're missing out on ~6k+ per day at seven clears, or about 36k points for six days (Ares and Doc Ock nodes were mis-pointed the first sub).

Someone else do fix my math if I'm too far off, but I'm sure it's more than a few k each day.

HaywireII

If I had unlimited health packs I could probably do the initial clear six clears of all 9 nodes in about four hours. That's way too much time to spend and it's not fun anymore. If I didn't really want that blue Falcon cover (if this was an event for any character I already had fully covered or didn't care about) I would have stopped playing this event. As it is to get into the top 50 I have to clear each node 7 or 8 times. Actually waiting for health packs to regenerate now so I can get back to the initial 6 clears.

Calnexin

I find myself playing more. A lot more. The nodes thus far have been pretty easy, but they still take time. A lot of time. With as much time as I'm putting in I would normally expect to have earned the top progression prize by now, but I'm still 40k away. And my placement is comparatively garbage. I'm still climbing high enough to reach an event token, but only T100 once, while I'm used to being T100, T50 with this kind of time spent.

The only reason I'm bothering to keep going is because I joined a PvE-focused alliance and I don't want to tank their placement progress. I never do much in PvP anyway - generally just go for the 10-pack. But this PvE is putting me behind even my usual progression on that. If it continues like this I'll have to quit the alliance, downshift and prioritize.

revskip

KGB wrote:

revskip wrote:

Pretty sure 4 clears and some change would get you progression in this event. I missed the first day entirely and am still going to hit the CP today without taking a single node past a check mark.

Wow, how are you getting so many points?

I only had time for 2 clears on day 1 but have done 6-7 on day 2&3 and have done 3 so far today. I'm only at 58K and project to 67K with 3 more clears today. Obviously missing out on Rulk/Ares nodes costing me a few K each day but I am still going to need 35K more on the final 2 days to make it.

KGB

I had all the essentials. Did only one clear of each node day 1, got check marks every day leading up to today. Missed one day on the main subs 3 nodes. Did my grind last night so all my nodes are at 6 clears, and will do the final clear tonight before rollover. I have 91662 points. After my clear of those last 9 nodes tonight plus maybe the first couple of nodes tomorrow I will easily be over the CP with a day and a half to go. Without grinding a single node for just points (although the crit boost sometimes feels that way).

The essentials make up a huge part of the total point pool. Today alone you can get 9288 from just the three essentials with six clears. Since the points jump up on day 6 and 7 that means even more possible points from just having the 3 characters featured. I have all the 2* and 3*s rostered but I've noticed that when I am just missing the 4* essential that progression becomes way steeper for me even with the old system.

san

Okay, so I was skeptical at first, but after trying the new difficulty (starting with day 3 of the event!) I have actually had a pretty good time. The difficulty seems on point. It was NOT easy, but it was enjoyable. Overall, around 2.5 hours to grind all nodes down in this last sub for me, which is fairly on point with events before, but I won't have to redo it over and over again at 8h intervals. Keep it up D3.

Kilwrath

I've complained about the new system previously, but now the scaling seems spot on to me. The easier nodes are still easier but get tougher as you clear them, and the tougher nodes are manageable at first then get a bit scarier as you clear them.

I like that I'm now able to play when I have time, instead of having to cycle on every 8 hours to maximize my points. This is the first time in a long while that I've felt competitive in a PvE event, and I'm just jumping to play whenever I have 10-15 minutes to clear a few nodes. I have a family and full time job, so I'm not sitting at home for hours grinding these wins out either. I'm on Washington DC (round 5) and just hit my max progression rewards after doing 5-7 clears on every node through the first 5 rounds. If I keep this up I figure I can eke out a top 20 placement.

I have a 90 man roster with most 3*'s fully covered, and only a few maxed 4*'s - one of which is Red Hulk - so that is definitely helping me do better than I might if I had a different A-team. If this event had someone like Lady Thor or 4* Cyclops as the powered up 4* I'd probably not be doing as well as I am, but I'd still feel like I could play all the nodes, just maybe not clear them all every round.

Vhailorx

Kilwrath wrote:

I've complained about the new system previously, but now the scaling seems spot on to me. The easier nodes are still easier but get tougher as you clear them, and the tougher nodes are manageable at first then get a bit scarier as you clear them.

I like that I'm now able to play when I have time, instead of having to cycle on every 8 hours to maximize my points. This is the first time in a long while that I've felt competitive in a PvE event, and I'm just jumping to play whenever I have 10-15 minutes to clear a few nodes. I have a family and full time job, so I'm not sitting at home for hours grinding these wins out either. I'm on Washington DC (round 5) and just hit my max progression rewards after doing 5-7 clears on every node through the first 5 rounds. If I keep this up I figure I can eke out a top 20 placement.

I have a 90 man roster with most 3*'s fully covered, and only a few maxed 4*'s - one of which is Red Hulk - so that is definitely helping me do better than I might if I had a different A-team. If this event had someone like Lady Thor or 4* Cyclops as the powered up 4* I'd probably not be doing as well as I am, but I'd still feel like I could play all the nodes, just maybe not clear them all every round.

do not confuse the new system with your competitiveness in this event.

You can like or dislike the various features of the new scaling/scoring system. But that has nothing to do with your overall placement in this event. Placement is just a function of how much you play relative to everyone else. by and large the vet community dislikes this new system, and the rewards for this event are uninspiring. So competition is MUCH less fierce. You could play exactly as much as you are playing now in a subsequent event and finish 50-100 spots worse if the rewards were a top tier 4* like Rulk or Iceman, or if it was a popular new character release event.

DJSquiggy

Not sure I can add much.

I don't mind playing each node 7 times. That's it. 7 is my limit. I don't want to grind for placement rewards, I just want my ISO, standard tokes, CP, etc.

I would love to finish those 7 nodes at any time during the 24 hour sub. If there are 48 hour subs, please up the number to 14 rewards per node, or do away with 48 hour subs forever.

Get rid of placement rewards and put everything as progression. Or, keep placement, but leave it at iso, HP, and CP only. Take the covers and make them progression rewards.

Make all progression rewards attainable if you clear 2/3rds of the nodes 7 times (or whatever feels more reasonable)

The last time I was able to make the final progression of 25 CP was the last test. I don't have the time to do multiple 8 hour refreshes. Making progression feels great, but placement always feels out of reach no matter how much free time I get to play. Making placement "icing on the cake" is better than making it feel like the whole piece of cake.

So, yeah. I wouldn't mind the new system with the possibility of tweaking reward structure.

snlf25

KGB wrote:

Like everyone else, the new scaling is great for me (roster is a mix of 2-3* characters around L110) as enemies start around L30-50 and finish around L115 if I do 7 clears.

A full clear for me takes around 20 minutes the fist time and 30 minutes by the 6th/7th clear (I don't have Ares or Rulk so can't do their nodes).



KGB

You are exactly who this new PvE system is designed to favor. The downside for you is that if you enjoy playing at this difficulty level you can never level your roster. And that really sucks.

Vhailorx

snlf25 wrote:

KGB wrote:

Like everyone else, the new scaling is great for me (roster is a mix of 2-3* characters around L110) as enemies start around L30-50 and finish around L115 if I do 7 clears.

A full clear for me takes around 20 minutes the fist time and 30 minutes by the 6th/7th clear (I don't have Ares or Rulk so can't do their nodes).



KGB

You are exactly who this new PvE system is designed to favor. The downside for you is that if you enjoy playing at this difficulty level you can never level your roster. And that really sucks.

Also, KGB, think about what you just said. 6 clears at 20-30 minutes. That's almost 3 hours a day on just PvE without considering the grind. That's a huge time investment, even more than is necessary under the old system. And that's not even enough to get near the top 10 4* covers.

TheOncomingStorm

Here is my feed back. Your pve placement rewards are bad. And you should feel bad.

In all seriousness, I am getting ready to uninstall, permanently this time.

The placement reward structure is so antiquated, it is embarrassing. It's like being paid a burger flipper salary when you've moved into upper management.

The time vs rewards for pve is unrealistic. It is disrespectful to players and their associates to structure a feature that requires a mass amount of playing time on a schedule to have an opportunity to earn optimal rewards for an event.

You have the data of how much time it takes to get 1st? If that is really your goal of how much time a person should sacrifice to get optimal rewards, I do not have the words to describe the type of person you are.

Stop filling up with bread with these changes to accidental features. It doesn't matter how good the bread is if you never work on improving the main course.

Fix the time requirement to get optimal pve rewards. If you're not going to use a progressive rewards structure, do something. If you can't come up with a better solution, then please stop putting your head in the ground and give the players a sane rewards system.

TL; DR: when your house has plumbing issues, it doesn't help to solve the problem by changing out the curtains.

mazerat

Doing sub-6 now. My roster includes 145 Howard and 140 Daisy with one cover each, 134 Doc Ock with four covers, and four champ'd two stars at 128/122/120/119. My hardest node--Grenadier/Spider-Man/Soldier is at 66/67/67 after six clears. Scaling seems seriously borked.

I'm at 70 minutes played with the two essentials (I don't have ) left to do so I'm guessing it'll take me about 95 minutes total. That's not horrible but with DDQ and PvP it's over two hours of MPQ each day and that's a bit much for me every single day.

CT1888

I'm off work this week, so have been able to play a bit more than normal, and the scaling, vs boosted champion Luke Cage and Iron Fist has been easy, if time consuming. I think I've used about 2 health packs in the last 2 subs. I remember Hell's Kitchen as being a bit brutal, this time it's been a cake walk.
Gather black and purple, punch, punch, punch is a bit boring though. As it's fairly efficient though, and the 25cp is so high, I'll keep doing it.

I can't bring myself to clear everything out. At 86k and I'm bored. Spiderman is 226 after 6 clears of Rulk node (needed them for the CP).
I have lots of 3* championed and 1 4* champion.
I will go into Thunderbolt Mountain, get the CP, get 20k from nodes and stop. I want iso and Cp, but I can't imagine doing this for a new release.

madsalad

This new PVE structure, along with the new scaling, makes your game boring. I'm literally falling asleep while trying to clear out nodes.

There is no excitement. It is a slog. If I was fighting for something worth fighting for, maybe, but as it is I'm in Sub 6, I already have my 25 CP, and I'm only in the Top 50. Other than the first day, I've hit every node 7+ times. I cannot bring myself to grind down to 20.

If this is how the new PVE is going to be, I'll hit it occasionally but stick mainly to PVP and DDP. That will free up my time to do other things I guess. Thanks?

Gmax101

Is the fact that so many people are actually grinding the nodes the fault of the developers...?

I get that the optimum grind for maximum points is 6 quick clears, wait and then grind them out... but lots more people are grinding, even just to the 7 clears, than other PVE events in the past, even other tests (although that was probably difficulty related)

nobody is making anyone do it, and with the rewards on offer one could argue that they are actively dissuading you from trying to grind... and yet lots of people are still doing it?

Is it a symptom that the scaling is right as more players feel 7 clears is achievable? old scaling made things very tough if you cleared the nodes 3-4 times easily... where as here, I can hit 5/6 clears on all nodes and only use 4/5 healthpacks (less with good boards)

Polares

Gmax101 wrote:

Is the fact that so many people are actually grinding the nodes the fault of the developers...?

I get that the optimum grind for maximum points is 6 quick clears, wait and then grind them out... but lots more people are grinding, even just to the 7 clears, than other PVE events in the past, even other tests (although that was probably difficulty related)

nobody is making anyone do it, and with the rewards on offer one could argue that they are actively dissuading you from trying to grind... and yet lots of people are still doing it?

Is it a symptom that the scaling is right as more players feel 7 clears is achievable? old scaling made things very tough if you cleared the nodes 3-4 times easily... where as here, I can hit 5/6 clears on all nodes and only use 4/5 healthpacks (less with good boards)

New scaling is much better for 4 or 4-5 players, but the problem is that it is even easier than before for championed 3s rosters and 94 level capped players (!!!!). And I think this is a problem for the future of the game. This game has moved to a point were having a roster with a lot of championed 3s is the best place to stay, for PvE, and now also for PvP (at least for sim, my alliance team mates have reported that this new sim has been really easy compared to the old ones, for reaching the highest scores you still need 5s, but I think that to getting to 800 3s are in a very good place right now). It is obvious most players now are probably in the 3 land, so devs are making the game easier for them, all other people doesnt matter (2s teams will get to 3 land even without help, and 4-5 teams are so addicted to the game that they will keep playing no matter what - and I am in this group!). This is the impression I am having right now.

Calnexin

Polares wrote:

Gmax101 wrote:

nobody is making anyone do it, and with the rewards on offer one could argue that they are actively dissuading you from trying to grind... and yet lots of people are still doing it?

New scaling is much better for 4 or 4-5 players, but the problem is that it is even easier than before for championed 3s rosters and 94 level capped players (!!!!). And I think this is a problem for the future of the game. This game has moved to a point were having a roster with a lot of championed 3s is the best place to stay, for PvE, and now also for PvP (at least for sim, my alliance team mates have reported that this new sim has been really easy compared to the old ones, for reaching the highest scores you still need 5s, but I think that to getting to 800 3s are in a very good place right now).

I'm in 3-land and I agree, the actual play is pretty easy. But the number of clears required - both for progression and placement - has been insane. The placement is our (the players') fault, because we're in direct competition with one another. If we'd collectively chill out it wouldn't be as bad. Progression - I don't know. Maybe they've got it right. I was getting frustrated around my 60k mark, but I'm just about there with another full sub available, which roughly tracks with my previous efforts.

In order to reach that, though, I'm basically committing all of my free time to it. About an hour in the morning before work. About 1 hr immediately after work inbetween/concurrent with meal and family time, and then 2 hours before going to sleep (1 to finish up previous, 1 to start new). 4 hours/day. It's becoming a part-time job that I don't get paid for. And I echo madsalad - I too am literally falling asleep trying to clear nodes.

shusheshe

Scaling is good, even a bit easy. My hardest node after 6 clears is 188, mostly because my roster is sitting around 144 made of max champed 2 stars and max covered 3 stars but underleveled (my 4 stars have few covers are sitting anywhere from 70-111). Nodes all start off all trivial, with some progressing to easy at around 2-3 taps, then normal at 5-6 taps.

However, I don't usually care for 6 clears, I'm pretty much doing only 4 clears per sub and no grinding at all at the end just to get max progression and to earn badly needed ISO.

I'm pretty sure you know why at this point. Because this is BORING. Tapping the same thing 4 times more or less has killed any fun out of it. And the time it costs me to tap 4 times in a row...it's taking me around 2 hours more or less. And for what? I'm not getting the placement I need for 4* covers (and I never have even under the old system because I refuse/couldn't do the grinding). I already have most of the 3 and 2 star covers.