PVE Scaling Feedback & New Test : Prodigal Sun

ZeroKarma

So, I appreciate the change to the scaling. Definitely feels more appropriate though he initial trivial nodes do jump too fast and too high.

What I still don't like, and will not like regardless of the difficulty is the time commitment. It's simply too much if you want to be competitive. If this stays in place I'm full time PvP.

While I understand that we all have time commitments and lives to live, the previous setup was perfect for me. I can hit a clear of slice 5 after work (I'm in Asia), then clear once before bed. I wake up and clear and I grind at lunch.

It's still a lot of time, but I can do this and be top 10 any event I wish.

If I asked my wife, would she prefer this setup or grind for four hours straight at beginning and end of subs, I am guessing her response would be to take the former. I don't see how anyone with a job or family can still be competitive with the new changes.

This is being done for one reason in my estimation. Make PvE a place for newer players to get rewards and force the vets out. They changed the prize structure to include 4* covers and added champing, which pulled in all of the high powered guys and pushed out the lesser rosters. That resulted in lower engagement from new players in the one place they could compete. This is a band aid to fix that.

Wish they could just come out and say that.

smkspy

Do the original nodes disappear after the first chapter.ends? Wondering whether to grind them or not.

zodiac339

smkspy wrote:

Do the original nodes disappear after the first chapter.ends? Wondering whether to grind them or not.

They stick around on this story. The only one I can think of where they disappear is Enemy of the State.

Inarius

So all you did was lower the difficulty without addressing the elephant in the room¿?

One of our biggest frustrations apart from the difficulty is the amount of time we have to spend to hit those damn nodes to maintain our position. Why isn't this being addressed, because with the way things are now, it feels more like PVP than PVE.

Why not simply turn to the gauntlet format, where each player has the chance to win the big prize, given they have the required character and 4-6 days to do so. That would actually mean play whenever you want.

At least this way nobody will have to worry about getting dethroned in PVE because he/she couldn't grind for 4-5 hours continuously, shifting their attention to PVP once satisfied with the progression in the sub.

And what happened with the other issue people have been bringing up, namely progressive rewards. Nobody wants to fight an enemy composed of something stupid like Muscle/Muscle/Kingpin for a measly 70Iso.

Test or not, if the enemy's lvl increases with each win so must the reward that goes to the player.

I may be wrong but I think the 3 biggest issues so far are (in no particular order)

- Difficulty
- Time
- Reward

You addressed the difficulty part, what about the other two?

Sandwichboy

Really beating a dead horse at this point but like...can we PLEASE keep this system AND dump placement rewards? Because placement rewards for PVE makes zero sense beyond being greedy? You guys are so close to making this game fun and not stressful and a thing I don't feel bad about occasionally spending money on. So close.

ZeroKarma

Sandwichboy wrote:

Really beating a dead horse at this point but like...can we PLEASE keep this system AND dump placement rewards? Because placement rewards for PVE makes zero sense beyond being greedy? You guys are so close to making this game fun and not stressful and a thing I don't feel bad about occasionally spending money on. So close.

This I can get behind. If I could play the nodes 5-6 times at my leisure and get all the rewards my complaints end. It's the race for placement that makes the new system stupid.

DalekGAF

I guess I'm in the minitory but I think the scaling is pretty rough for the goon levels. I couldn't play them more than 3 times without getting wiped out.

theshadeofopal

I much prefer the new play when you want system with higher scaling. I'm in solidly in 4* land and only find a few of the last clears on the hardest nodes to be a bit much.

That being said the grinding necessary to place above a certain point is kinda brutal on top of the longer overall clear times. I don't know if I agree with the outright removal of one placement rewards but i'd definitely say an expanding of 3 and 4 rewards should be paired with the difficulty hike. Something like

1-2 4 4* covers
3-10 3 4* covers
11-20 2 4* covers
20-40 1 4* cover
40-150 3 3* covers
151-250 2 3* covers
251-400 1 3* cover
Seems dramatic but we've long needed an expansion of 4* availability with the drastic increase in the amount of 4*s, as well as the huge number of covers need to champion 3*s.

Ducky

So I finally got around to clearing the second sub until the levels were maxed (didn't do that for the first sub) and my levels are pretty much exactly the same as the previous test. I can't see anything that's really changed. Sure, they start out lower, but when they end up the same it doesn't really make a difference.

dr tinykittylove

Please stop testing this system. Or address the number of clears needed, points needed for the final progression, and the fact that rewards do not scale with difficulty.

When I am clearing out almost every node reward and don't feel sure I can reach max progression, plus a crit boost drops for fighting some level 300 enemies, you make me feel like an idiot for continuing to play this event at all. Or is that the desired level of player engagement? Stop playing pve?

revskip

Scaling seems much better in this test. Wasn't really able to get going day 1 but just went in and did each node 6x for day 2 and was able to (barely) complete it with 0 healthpacks left in about 3.5 hours. That seems like a little too much of a time commitment but it was enough for a share of 1st place in my bracket for the day and #9 overall despite missing all but one clear yesterday.

I think if the devs just outright dropped the critical boost bonus and made it 6 total clears (5 untimed, 1 with refresh) it would be spot on for me.

Enjoying this test so far.

Deadpool369

I prefer playing pve this way because I mostly focus on pve so it is nice not having to worry about doing a clear every 8 hours. The problem I have this pve though is that it's taking at least 6 clears on every node to keep pace for the max progression rewards. I though last run was a little too easy to get it so maybe finding a point in between 6 clears and 3 would be ideal

Lboogie

If you aren't going to switch to progression rewards only leave it the way it was and let us decide. Unstable iso 8 I barely ranked t200. Webbed wonder 3 clears + mini grind 90th....I didnt give it my all. I played webbed wonder way less time than unstable. I hate repeating myself but if you insist on repeating tests like this ill keep repeating.
LEAVE PVE ALONE....and let us decide how much time we want to commit for placement. Or get rid of placement. We will all continue to play pve for in game resources not cause we like this format.....
Please listen to us

FireWarrior71

I'll be ok with it if you would stop with the grind before timed. You are going to force me from competitive PVE...

I just do not have the time to devote to the game if this the game model you decide to go with...

I have been infuriated with D3 since the first round of testing. You keep pushing me away with your grind first, wait later philosophy. Still not understanding why you have to shove garbage down our throats... LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!

fmftint

I just discovered that in the test format max enemy level is dynamic. In the old format changing your roster mid sub would not change your sub difficulty, now it will
Last night my event T3 were Rulk 367, HB 632, Phoenix, 360 and my Coercive Force node after 6x was 324/234/234
This morning I put 10 levels on my Phoenix making my T3 370/637/362. This change increased that node to 325/326/326

Max difficulty now seems to cap at roughly 90% of your T3

Potential issue, it this were The Hulk event I'd be looking at a level 978 Hulk, or Thick as Thieves level 489 CMag/Hood

Yasuru

I am not an ultra-competitive player. In the old system, I would double-tap all nodes in the evening, and grind out the CP. The next day, I'd hit the nodes one more time at lunch. This would regularly get me progression and top 100. The reason I used this schedule is I have a job and kids, and can't dedicate massive time to PvE. (My alliance has a 10K season PvP requirement.) If this new system requires me to do massive grinding to get top100 on character releases, I may be done. The thing is, I am a collector. I am on day 868, and I have every character in the game outside of Goblin. All my 3 stars are champed as well as 3 - 4 stars. I have put time, effort, and yes money into the game. I have never played a game before where it gets harder as you go along but the rewards don't change. With that in mind, and other comments in the thread I am making my suggesting for PvE...

FIRST OFF - PvE SHOULD BE PROGRESSION, NOT COMPETITION!
SECOND OFF - REWARDS SHOULD SCALE!

OK, let's say you have a 4 day PvE with a sub each day. Each sub should have a max progression number similar to how Gauntlet works. However, unlike Gauntlet, a single clear should not get you to that number. The first node should be at a low level but worth low points and have smaller rewards. The final node should be very difficult, but have high rewards and high points. All nodes should be static, NOT based on roster. This would allow veterans to hit progression with some grinding but fighting challenging fights, while younger players MAY be able to hit it, but with significant grinding if they so choose. The entire event would then have progression goals, culminating with a 4* cover (similar to top in current PvE). By scaling the rewards, with the difficulty, it would help alleviate the ISO shortage that plagues this game. If the rewards in the hardest node were CP, 2k, 1k, 500, 500, 250, 250, it would NOT destroy the economy of the game! I can't speak for anyone else, but to get my characters to their CURRENT cover levels, I need 7.2 MILLION ISO.

Oh, and no critical boosts, please!

Yasuru, Officer of the Thunderkittens

waywreth

Same issue as previous PVEs - at the end of the day, is it fun?
Sorry, having to play each node 7x isn't fun. Please let's go back to the 3x, plus the optional grind at the end.

Ryudoz

So why are the essential nodes worth less in this sub? Because I thought they were supposed to be even. Also, my points keep fluctuation all over the nodes (I haven't hit them enough to reset yet) and so I feel like I won't get the max points unless I wait until 2 hours before the sub closes now, making it impossible to know when to play. Just... just stop this nonsense.

HaywireII

So the difficulty on the new test seems good for me. I am able to use much more of my roster than I could in the previous tests. I got to change up my lineup and experiment a little and even have some fun instead of cringing every time my top 3 took a little bit of damage.

Unfortunately the grind is still there. It doesn't seem right that I have to play 5 to 7 hours every day (for 7 days straight!) to place in the top 100. How about 4 clears then kicking in the 24 hour timer? And set the 25 CP progression reward at 3 or 3.5 full clears. I could use a little less pressure in my fun.

philosorapt0r

Difficulty: Feels good (for a champ-3s roster), though honestly this event is going to skew towards 'feels easy / health packs aren't a problem' because boosted fist+cage means everyone has a strong team, and attrition isn't a factor.

Grind: Like everyone else, just too much repetition to be done all at once. I'm literally playing until I get bored with it, rather than playing until I run out of health-packs or nodes full on points as I would before.