PVE Scaling Feedback & New Test : Prodigal Sun

Smudge

At the risk of repeating what's already been said since I haven't taken time to read every post in depth so far, here are my two cents:

This new PvE style is a drain, and worst of all, it is boring.

I played through all but the essential nodes last night after I finished Webbed Wonder and before I fell asleep. Even level 100 Maggia have too many hit points to make this fun. My boosted characters are all terribly slow for taking this stuff on, and I'm sick of the tests.

I played hard to hit CP progression in the EotS test. It was a slog, and it wasn't that much fun. I played to CP progression in Unstable ISO-8. It was a dramatic improvement in terms of effort needed to get the rewards, but the event was every bit as dull.

Prodigal Sun is where I draw the line this time. I'm going to stop burning time in these worthless tests that should still have the difficulty on the first 3 nodes turned WAY down (and not scale at all btw - none of the trivial nodes in the "old" system scale, why why why are you scaling these stupid trivial nodes???) and just focus on DDQ and PvP for now.

Btw, despite a few complaints here and there, when I consider the writing, structure, and the boosted characters available during the Duck Season PvE events, I actually did have fun. Even with symbiotes and horrible goon feeder nodes juicing up Kingpin and Doc Ock eventually. Trudging through these massive health pools of Maggia Dons and Muscles constantly? I can't bring myself to do it this time. Especially not for the paltry rewards offered.

Babinro said it best in his post earlier about Diablo. If difficulty ramped up suddenly, players would be up in arms. Diablo 3 lets you choose your difficulty, and the game scales its rewards to match your selected difficulty.

Another big difference between MPQ and Diablo? Blizzard listens to its player base.

firethorne

While scaling is better on this test, something about all of it still seems off. And ultimately, no matter how much they tweak the scaling to make it a more balanced competitive experience, it will always feel off. That's because the ultimate goal of a PvE that is a balanced competitive experience is the antithesis of what it actually should be on multiple levels. The goal they’re working toward is based on multiple flawed and absurd concepts.

First, there is the bizarre idea that their PvE needs to be competitive in the first place. So, they have to do all sorts of weird nonsense and tweaks to allow people to “play at their own pace” which if it were truly PvE would work out of the box and not need any mechanics layered over it to achieve that goal.

And, the really frustrating part of this, is they’ve already had events that perfectly solve the problem. Players ask for more content like them, and are met with dead silence or the third test of something where we’ve already twice said a resounding, “NO!” People like the cool little events like Growth Industry. Play it, truly at your own rate. Check. Beat the event, get the reward, no insane competition and grind. Check. Rewards that feel worthy of the effort. Check. But, instead, we get this.

And then, even if you somehow ignore the fact that a lot of people want PvE content that actually adheres to what the rest game industry refers to as PvE, and not just another competitive variant, you have the issue of balancing.

All of these tests feel like arbitrary tweaks to make some specific subset of underleveled or undercovered rosters competitive. And, while I appreciate there should be content for new players, making tweaks so a player two months in has equal footing to a two year vet is crazy. It completely nullifies any significance in making progress in the game. It makes a mockery of it.

There needs to be a sense of progression. And, there needs to be a logical path to making progress. A 2* team should expect to win some 3* covers without much trouble, a 3* team should expect to win some 4* covers without much trouble. A 4* team should expect to win some 5* covers and not have it be completely at the whims of a random number generator. There is a logical flow of progress that the devs have tossed aside trying to make some sort of oddly balanced, every roster is equal (despite obvious unequal ranks, levels, skill coverage, and roster depth) competition.

Berserk_Al

My feedback for the scaling test: The scaling is great for me now. I rostered Silver Surfer right before joining the event, and after him, the highest levels are my 3star champions with 180 or so plus boosts (I think Magneto is boosted this week? That would make him almost as big as Surfer). The hardest node started around 104 and I think didn't reach 200 after it stopped leveling up. I was able to clear the hardest nodes six times with little health packs spent.

My personal opinion on everything else: I agree with those saying the rewards are not enough at this point, specially the ISO-8, that I have reached the point where what I can get by playing is just not enough for the needs of my characters.

cyineedsn

While reading all these posts of sadness, and realizing I still have to do 5 more clears of all the nodes in todays sub, I randomly started thinking of the opening scene/song in Les Miserables.

SangFroid

So the scaling and balance of the nodes still really takes away from the fun of the game and adds a ton of time spent. I have been a heavy PVE player for the past two years and the new format is just so unenjoyable and cuts down on both the earning of rewards as well as any free time you would hope to have.

My solution

1-No Refresh timers
2-Old format 3 easy 3 hard 3 essential
3-The nodes scale up very slightly each time you beat them
4-Easy nodes and Hard nodes give 0 rewards after you claim all the rewards
5-Essential nodes give you 20pts(4*), 5pts(3*), 1pt(2*) after all 7 rewards earned and continue to scale up indefinitely

People can now 100% play whenever they want and not be tied to a grind window All of the rewards are achievable with the same effort as before Roster diversity continues to be important but stronger roster should have a more favorable chance of placing better The system can be played casually but the top 10 grinders will still be able to separate themselves based on how much they are willing to play The targets for each top end reward should be very easy to calculate and people will be sure each event how much they have to grind (i.e. if I grind all nodes 3x I will get the 25cp or whatever multiple D3 chooses)

AE_Fios

It's amazing how much time and effort you are putting into fixing something that isn't really broken while PVP is so broken that players are putting up 4K+ points an event.

rbdragon

It's simple really: increase the rewards or decrease the time commitment.

If you have a job and you stay late, do you do it for free?

You want to increase the number of times we clear, then let's change the node rewards. Here's my idea:

• remove crit boost rewards - we already get them randomly when we win matches
• no more random prizes - seriously, there's nothing wrong with structure
• first 3 nodes reward & 2* essential in this order: standard token, 75iso, 100iso, 125iso, 150iso, 175iso, 200iso
• next 2 harder nodes & 3* essential in this order: rainbow boost, 100iso, 175iso, 250iso, 325iso, 400iso, 500iso
• hardest node & 4* essential in this order: 1cp, 100iso, 250iso, 500iso, 750iso, 1000iso, 50hp
• wave nodes: keep structure above, but add "X" iso/wave - easy = 50, harder = 100, hardest = 150 (replace one with event token on 1st clear of hardest)

It's time to lose some randomness and add some much needed iso.

Sambuca

My thoughts after going through the first sub:

The absence of the timer until you clear a node 6 times actually makes me bored of playing. Maybe it's because I have to actually hit each node six times before anything changes, but psychologically I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. Sure my point total goes up, but the progression for this event seems really high. Or maybe it's because it's a long event?

Either way, my enjoyment of and enthusiasm for this game goes way down during these PvE tests and I find myself playing less. Since they've eased up on the scaling, I'm not chewing through as many health packs as in EotS, but mentally I feel drained, not excited, after playing.

To achieve the same placement positions, I'd have to spend more time playing than I was with the old format for the same levels of rewards. Not only that, but I accumulate more covers than I do ISO, so if scaling is based on number of covers rather than levels, it's just a downward spiral. I won't be able to level my roster as quickly because I'm not playing as much or placing as high as I used to. I might not even be able to get all of the progression awards, which is something that I've been able to max out on ever since I was at the 2* level. It seems like a vicious cycle. I hear it's easier for newer players, but I don't recall actually having a hard time when I started out, so I don't know what the developers are trying to fix with this new format.

Merrick

Echoing the chorus. Unfortunately the devs are deaf.

Reduce the amount of time needed to play competitively. Allow 3 hits at full points.

And to help with this, reduce the number of prizes the nodes give back to 4, but greatly increase the value of each prize.

madok

I just wanted to chime in and echo what everyone else has already said. The scaling is definitely better at least initially. I was not required to use my A team for initial clears this go. But the time commitment is just bonkers. In the old system, I could do 3 clears close to every 8 hours and a couple clears at the end and get a top 50 placement. That was enjoyable. At the most 1.5 to 2 hours a day.

I'm not going to make that insane CP progression reward during this event. I can't bring myself to grind that much. I'm just going to settle for farming what ISO and CP I can get and I'll focus on PVP. Guess I can knock out Shield Sim early this season.

CNash

Even with Magneto boosted (hands down one of the fastest, heaviest hitters on the 3* tier), Sub #1 felt like a real slog. I was clearing nodes left right and center, enduring Muscle Threaten/Tommy Guns all around, and yet I didn't feel like I was achieving much. The rewards are nice and eventually we'll see good progression, but I think the repetitiveness of an old event like Prodigal Sun is hurting it.

Fratriarch

I want to say something positive and original, but there is nothing good to say.

Placement is impossible if you spend less than 4 hours every single day for seven days straight, so is the LT at the end, there is no feeling of progression in beating the same node six or seven times without any visual change, and there still are no 4* to get without absurd placement.

W4LAndre

I haven't had anything to say on here for a while but those who are calling the shots in this game's development seem to have a habit of missing the point. I didn't post about the EoTS test, but it sucked, as the many pages of feedback indicated. I sat out the Unstable Iso 8 test but it seemed like there was plenty of feedback on that one too. I like Prodigal Sun, mainly because it is one of the few events we aren't banging our heads against the dark avengers wall. I don't really want to have anything to do with this test, but my vault is pretty sweet for once, so we'll see. If they really want to improve things here is some advice.
Scrap this change, the old way isn't perfect but it appears more like it than this new junk. Instead of putting resources into the story mode changes, divert those resources into the +1 level button that everyone has been wanting for a long time now. This will buy you more good will with the players than changing story mode events ever will if it continues to go down this path.
There you go, this will boost morale and will get the bitter taste out of some players' mouths until the next blunder. You're welcome, something in the neighborhood of 1,000,000 Iso-8 deposited into my account seems pretty reasonable, oh and lets say 25 command points for everyone in one of the Ampersand alliances, we have 6 or 7 active ones, a small price to pay for the amount of good will this will buy. Enjoy your weekends everyone.

Unknown

Really liking the changes. Really want to see this live. Time commitment for progress rewards feels good.

Jam_Adams

lol

D3: hey try this version. You can play when you want!

Everyone: yeah. we want to play your game ... buuuuuut we don't want to play your game that much



Love it.

smkspy

I really like the cp nodes only being four rewards.

jackstar0

Needing a couple hours solidly to do the full clears at the start of a sub is... not ideal.

Rather than tweaking this again in some subtle way, what are the chances of throwing it out and trying something completely new? And while you're at it, mess with the rewards structure a bit and consider some generosity. I don't see how it would actually hurt things.

ScrubJay

In Dark Souls, when you go through NG+ the enemies get harder, but the game does toss more souls your way.

In a way, your game is harder than Dark Souls. That is not something a match 3 game should aspire for.

Nepenthe

Why are the essential nodes worth fewer points in this sub?
Red Hulk essential is 431, like I'd expect.
Doc Octopus is only 152!
Ares is 233!

Essential nodes were usually all worth the same and one of the best sources of points, rewarding you for having a full roster. This has got to be a bug, right?

udonomefoo

smkspy wrote:

I really like the cp nodes only being four rewards.

Confirmed bug, sorry to bust your bubble. It'll be fixed on tomorrow's sub.