Simulator Basics

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Zhirrzh wrote:

Mawtful wrote:

Howler wrote:

Enjoying this event so far. Let's hope the enemy scaling doesn't carry over to subsequent rounds. That'll just ruin everything.

Demiurge_Will wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Hey IceIX, what was the design reasoning behind the levels scaling cumulatively as opposed to on a per node basis? A lot of the forumers (myself included) were requesting static scaling so that only each individual node scales, and I was curious as to why you guys were doing this scaling across the board.

Also, does this level scaling persist across different subevents?

Persisting across subevents - yes.

Scaling missions individually doesn't do enough to satisfy the design goals of this feature: making our events maximally interesting for the widest possible subset of players and reducing grind. We couldn't do rewards like the 5000 Iso-8 challenge mission reward in this event in a system like that. It would either be too trivial for top-end players to get or they would be the only people that had any hope of getting it.

It seems that's here to stay.

If that means what it seems to mean and they've repeated the Thick as Thieves mistake, one can only bang one's head against the wall.

It's nice to have better rewards for the time and effort to beat some of these tough missions, that's an improvement. It's nice to have ceilings on where some of these missions scale to, I guess (not sure where the ceiling is yet!). But how many times did we have to say that the biggest mistake of Thick as Thieves was not resetting the levels on the subevents? If the opening mission in the next Hard bracket is 230/230/230, someone should be fired for failing to learn.

Completely agree with you on this. I was super excited this morning (i live in Asia) until i couldn't concentrate at my work, but these things making me lose my morale.

I do understand there will surely be 230s enemies in the hard mode. THERE MUST BE LEVEL 230s ENEMIES in the hard mode, But not within less than 24 hours. We still have 9 days to go.

Devs, IceIX, could you guys come up and comment what is the rationale behind this? if the logic behind this is because of the 5000 iso reward, then just take it out or reduce it and make the game more playable for everyone. (to my understanding, the points in normal mode is much lesser than hard mode, so there's no way new players can compete with veterans only by completing normal mode)

Or if i miss something here, can someone enlighten me please?

Thanks in advance.

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mechgouki wrote:

So is it confirmed stacks reset at 12, not 8 hrs?

Anyone?

Its 12 hours mine have just started to reset

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Love the big ISO rewards mind you, and the fact that they are trying to fix the broken scaling, but I get the feeling they haven't quite fixed it just yet.

Unknown

They should just do away with the scaling. Who the hell needs it anyway?

over_clocked

Liking the event a lot so far, I have yet to see enemies level 230 (my toughest enemies are level 143 Devil Dino and co atm). But then I don't have even a single maxed 85 lvl hero, not to mention 3 stars.
The funny thing is I didn't know Grant Invisibility does NOT protect the hidden team member from AoE attacks. I used Wind Storm out of interest and it killed everyone, including the invisible IW.

Unknown

If the scaling across sub events is persistent then this is going to absolutely suck for 6 days

Unknown

Didn't do the last mission on the Hard 5000 iso climb at lunch whilst they were 160's. Got home and found they are now in the 220's.
I finished it with Spidey, IM40 and GSBW who are all level 55 or so. It took me almost 20 minutes.
I got a lucky cascade after using Widows purple that pushed me up to about 15 blue. From there it was perma stun the team and chip away at their health.

Wouldn't want to try these high level hard missions without Spidey and his stun.
I really hope his "funbalance" won't be done during this event.

It won't be so bad if the levels reset after each sub but comments from IceIX appear to indicate otherwise.
We'll see how it goes but I'm having fun with this event so far and at the very least should still be able to farm the easy sub for iso.

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NorthernPolarity wrote:

Kelbris wrote:

I hope all hard mode missions end up being 200-230; it should actually be hard, instead of "normal" and "slightly more difficult normal" modes.

I think that level 120-160 is a good range of hard for most players: 200-230 just seems like you either have spidey stunlock or you die. Granted, I was able to do some 3x 230 missions with thorverine/OBW back in the day, but I don't think that strategy works anymore.

I completely agree with this. The battles at 120-160 are challenging without being damn near impossible without Spidey. I just did the Hard mode battle with level 125-126 Doom/Hood/Magneto and won the fight with Spidey dead, Hulk with 6(!) hitpoints and IM40 Iron-man with 56(!) hitpoints left! It was brutal. I'm not a fan of starting a new round (or subevent) with level 230 goons. That's just bad design. It just sucks the fun out of the game in one fell swoop.

Unknown

Yeah, the scaling on this is definitely still broken, though I do appreciate the Devs attempts to try and fix it. When I beat the 5k hard fight last night, Daken/X/Muscle were all on level 165. This morning, after not playing all night, they've scaled to 221 each, which will make it nearly impossible to beat.

I do think the Hard simulator should be just that (hard), but I think level 230 enemies are just ridiculous, especially when you're locked out of using certain characters (if I could use my Patch I'd be much happier). Certainly, a max level capped somewhere around 200 would provide a challenge even for the best of rosters, while allowing those of us with mid-game rosters to at least still have a fighting chance.

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NorthernPolarity wrote:

SquishySquash wrote:

Like you all said, hopefully it resets between events cause this won't work for most of us.

Doesn't seem like it based off of what Will said:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Hey IceIX, what was the design reasoning behind the levels scaling cumulatively as opposed to on a per node basis? A lot of the forumers (myself included) were requesting static scaling so that only each individual node scales, and I was curious as to why you guys were doing this scaling across the board.

Also, does this level scaling persist across different subevents?

Persisting across subevents - yes.

Scaling missions individually doesn't do enough to satisfy the design goals of this feature: making our events maximally interesting for the widest possible subset of players and reducing grind. We couldn't do rewards like the 5000 Iso-8 challenge mission reward in this event in a system like that. It would either be too trivial for top-end players to get or they would be the only people that had any hope of getting it.

I saw that earlier. It males sense to raise mission difficulties based on community play to a point. Then you tip that point and it becomes exactly what they say they don't want: only top end players will be able to compete.

Its only day one of a 6 day event. Hopefully, they've figured out that letting the event hit max difficulty within hours doesn't work and things will loosen up.

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SquishySquash wrote:

Its only day one of a 6 day event. Hopefully, they've figured out that letting the event hit max difficulty within hours doesn't work and things will loosen up.

Yeah, they tried to fix it during TaT as I recall, so hopefully they'll realise the scaling is working too quickly and will slow things down. If not, a post from IceIX or one of the devs explaining EXACTLY how the scaling is supposed to work would go a long way. If we understand it, at least we'll have a chance of trying to work with it.

kensterr

Before lunch time the enemy levels was below 100 in hard, or thereabouts. Couldn't play since I've got work to do - entered the game few minutes ago and I got level 230 mobs now instead of the ones earlier. Thank you devs!

Somehow I think this game is becoming more geared towards the hardcore gamers or those with lots of free time instead of casual gamers.

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DaveyPitch wrote:

Yeah, the scaling on this is definitely still broken, though I do appreciate the Devs attempts to try and fix it. When I beat the 5k hard fight last night, Daken/X/Muscle were all on level 165. This morning, after not playing all night, they've scaled to 221 each, which will make it nearly impossible to beat.

I do think the Hard simulator should be just that (hard), but I think level 230 enemies are just ridiculous, especially when you're locked out of using certain characters (if I could use my Patch I'd be much happier). Certainly, a max level capped somewhere around 200 would provide a challenge even for the best of rosters, while allowing those of us with mid-game rosters to at least still have a fighting chance.

The Daken mission is pretty rough at 200+ levels, scraped past it just with 141 Spidey, 141 Punisher and 130 Hulk (+ boosts). Without stunlock, I expect it would have been a disaster.

Unknown

The Ladder wrote:

DaveyPitch wrote:

Yeah, the scaling on this is definitely still broken, though I do appreciate the Devs attempts to try and fix it. When I beat the 5k hard fight last night, Daken/X/Muscle were all on level 165. This morning, after not playing all night, they've scaled to 221 each, which will make it nearly impossible to beat.

I do think the Hard simulator should be just that (hard), but I think level 230 enemies are just ridiculous, especially when you're locked out of using certain characters (if I could use my Patch I'd be much happier). Certainly, a max level capped somewhere around 200 would provide a challenge even for the best of rosters, while allowing those of us with mid-game rosters to at least still have a fighting chance.

The Daken mission is pretty rough at 200+ levels, scraped past it just with 141 Spidey, 141 Punisher and 130 Hulk (+ boosts). Without stunlock, I expect it would have been a disaster.

This is why I think the scaling is way off. I'm all for a good challenge, but if someone like you with your roster is barely scraping by, how can D3 expect everyone else to at least have a decent shot at it?

Unknown

Even if I don't complete another mission, I'll still be grateful for the..25k or so ISO I managed to get

Unknown

georgesaviour wrote:

Love the big ISO rewards mind you, and the fact that they are trying to fix the broken scaling, but I get the feeling they haven't quite fixed it just yet.

well i love that big ISO reward too. in fact, i'm in dire need of ISO (all of us do). But let's focus on the big picture first here rather than just giving ISO away.

oh and btw guys, it's 9 day event. Not 6 days event.

What we need is actually an official response from devs regarding the level scaling here. Whatever comes may be, i will maybe just suck it up and grind as best as i can coz i want psylocke

Unknown

Thinking a little more, I can actually deal with the scaling, if it all resets for the next set of sub-events in 2 days. I know Will said the scaling was across sub-events, but I hope he meant that it runs across the current sub-events (so you do well in Hard mode, the Easy mode starts to level up), but that it will reset back to the starting levels when the next subs roll around in 2 days. If they don't reset, it'll be incredibly harsh on anyone who might not be able to play for a few days for whatever reason, then come in to this great ISO-rich event and find they've been scaled out of being able to win any of it.

Unknown

Pucco wrote:

oh and btw guys, it's 9 day event. Not 6 days event.

It's actually a 10 day event, I imagine there will be 4 round lasting 2 1/2 days each.

Unknown

A fun event

I'm really glad for the big ISO rewards, from what i've read last night before sleep everyone struggles with ISO nowdays.
The only thing i'm missing from this event, it's a story. I enjoyed the dialogues of Hulk and the Hunt, and let's not forget the hilarious Widow, Wolverine and Nick Fury conversations from Thick as Thieves.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Scaling missions individually doesn't do enough to satisfy the design goals of this feature: making our events maximally interesting for the widest possible subset of players and reducing grind. We couldn't do rewards like the 5000 Iso-8 challenge mission reward in this event in a system like that. It would either be too trivial for top-end players to get or they would be the only people that had any hope of getting it.

Maybe it's just me, I don't really see how this design goal has been reached even to a minor extent.Took a look at the missions prior to going to bed, tough but somewhat possible. Took another look after getting out of bed, levels almost doubled, difficulty is deep in the "come back in a week for the next event" range. If the intention was to lock out all players that are unable to participate right away due to their timezone or that don't have access to Spidey at blue 5 I'd call this a major success. With scaling supposed to persist throughout the whole event we've only encountered the tip of the iceberg so far. Any chance we could get hero lightning rounds Friday to Monday so there is at least something available to play?