5* Characters effects on PVP/PVE

The Bob The

johnmcclane wrote:

The Bob The wrote:

johnmcclane wrote:

so..Have I made a mistake in adding SS to my weak roster?
for weak I mean a bunch of l94 2 stars, 3stars from l104 to 43, 4stars from l86 to l70
I'm having some difficulties either in PVP and in PVE - the latter one is sorta painful now.

You're probably gonna continue to not have a good time in PVP - it's been much more of a slog for me - but from what I hear PVE doesn't change too much for most.

If you're looking to dump him, here's the key question: Is lvl 166 a possibility for you yet? If so, you're approaching the point where you might be kicking yourself for dropping him in maybe six months (depending on play style). If you're capped at 143 because that's the best-covered char you have, there might be a stronger argument for giving him the heave-ho. Others have, and report an improvement to their matchups.

Take my advice well salted because I keep damn near everyone, but I've got a 2-cover OML and a 1-cover SS, and I'm hanging on, but I've also got 10 166s and a handful of (middling) 10-cover 4*s queued up, so I'm farther along the curve. Also I'm weird. Anyway, my two cents. It's a hard situation, no argument there.

After this I'm thinking of let him go, even if I could regret it in a while.
However, my 3 stars are not 143, the highest is 104 (not capped, just max possible level - and it is , the one that I would have discarded if i didn t had like 4 covers in a row of her), then:
102
91
89
78
76
68
and others at lower levels + a bunch of 4 stars (all 1 cover, 2 covers for )

Quite mediocre, doesn't it? I'm trying to climb up in the simulator to get the 4000 points in Season PVP and cross my fingers for the 10 , but it's hard, right now I'm at almost 3000 playing as much as I can (but I've got to work, also)

Ouch. My mistake on the 143. We can't point to official documentation that says scaling gets worse - only your experience, mine, and those of other forumites - so I still hesitate to make the recommendation without harder evidence, but it sounds like the situation is seriously going to slow you down. I still can't bring myself to recommend selling it (damn 4* transitioner headspace!), but I don't think anyone would fault you for doing it. Good luck on the decision.

johnmcclane

The Bob The wrote:

johnmcclane wrote:

The Bob The wrote:

johnmcclane wrote:

so..Have I made a mistake in adding SS to my weak roster?
for weak I mean a bunch of l94 2 stars, 3stars from l104 to 43, 4stars from l86 to l70
I'm having some difficulties either in PVP and in PVE - the latter one is sorta painful now.

You're probably gonna continue to not have a good time in PVP - it's been much more of a slog for me - but from what I hear PVE doesn't change too much for most.

If you're looking to dump him, here's the key question: Is lvl 166 a possibility for you yet? If so, you're approaching the point where you might be kicking yourself for dropping him in maybe six months (depending on play style). If you're capped at 143 because that's the best-covered char you have, there might be a stronger argument for giving him the heave-ho. Others have, and report an improvement to their matchups.

Take my advice well salted because I keep damn near everyone, but I've got a 2-cover OML and a 1-cover SS, and I'm hanging on, but I've also got 10 166s and a handful of (middling) 10-cover 4*s queued up, so I'm farther along the curve. Also I'm weird. Anyway, my two cents. It's a hard situation, no argument there.

After this I'm thinking of let him go, even if I could regret it in a while.
However, my 3 stars are not 143, the highest is 104 (not capped, just max possible level - and it is , the one that I would have discarded if i didn t had like 4 covers in a row of her), then:
102
91
89
78
76
68
and others at lower levels + a bunch of 4 stars (all 1 cover, 2 covers for )

Quite mediocre, doesn't it? I'm trying to climb up in the simulator to get the 4000 points in Season PVP and cross my fingers for the 10 , but it's hard, right now I'm at almost 3000 playing as much as I can (but I've got to work, also)

Ouch. My mistake on the 143. We can't point to official documentation that says scaling gets worse - only your experience, mine, and those of other forumites - so I still hesitate to make the recommendation without harder evidence, but it sounds like the situation is seriously going to slow you down. I still can't bring myself to recommend selling it (damn 4* transitioner headspace!), but I don't think anyone would fault you for doing it. Good luck on the decision.

Oh, never mind for the 143/104, thanks for the help.
If i get another similar opinion I'll discard him, my fear is that the nodes level won't scale down as soon as he's gone, and I would have to face l190/300 enemies with my 90/100 one

puppychow

re: scaling. For pve scaling, the AI looks at your highest 3 character levels, factoring in buffs. For 3*, your 166 will get buffed to either 240 (weekly) or 260 (featured for event). A 5* starts at 255. But if your other characters aren't that high, I don't think scaling will matter that much for pve events.

Also, normal nodes at usually set at 80-120% of your average character level. If your current roster can handle these nodes, then there is no need to ditch your 5* cover.

5* is actually quite good for pve, because you can hide weaker characters behind the 5* as meat shield.

As far as pvp is concerned, the presence of 5* will wreck your MMR for 2-3 pvp events, and you'll be faced with significantly harder teams. Once that runs its course though, your MMR will normalize. If your season goal is 4k points, there is still enough time/days left to let MMR realign and for your to reach your goal.

Personally, I would keep the 5*, and try to level up the useful 3* like cmag, bp, kk.

mindsuckr

johnmcclane wrote:

Oh, never mind for the 143/104, thanks for the help.
If i get another similar opinion I'll discard him, my fear is that the nodes level won't scale down as soon as he's gone, and I would have to face l190/300 enemies with my 90/100 one

Your scaling will fix itself on the next event refresh when you sell him, as scaling is set at the start of each event. I doubt it'll fix anything for the Cho event, but everything else will go back to normal in a day or two.

smkspy

Proof positive how 5 star affect scaling. I had a 5 star SS level 270 and was managing decently with him. Before the Awesome Hulk even I rostered 5 star Phoenix at 255. Without them my most powerful characters are 3* Hulk 140, BP 137, and 3* Storm at 135. Here is my Hulk node level from the new event.



And here is an alliance member of mine with a similar roster all his characters capped at 140 no 5 stars.



Seriously need a fix for this.

johnmcclane

I have more doubts in discarding SS than in buying a car
However, if I'll let him free I'll do it after the PvP season for sure. 10 days to think!
Thanks guys

apmonte

Are we still waiting on a fix for this?? The first post was Oct 2nd. There has been plenty of time to fix this. I just drew my second 5-star (SS-R) and would hate to have to sell it as I had to with my OML. I won't recruit SS for two weeks to give this more time, but I will have wasted two legendary event tokens that just aren't that easy to come by with my level 94 roster.

Vinmarc43

For all you guy's with transition roster, I suggest you horde your Legendary tokens until D3 fixes this mess.
Whenever that happens

The Bob The

johnmcclane wrote:

I have more doubts in discarding SS than in buying a car
However, if I'll let him free I'll do it after the PvP season for sure. 10 days to think!
Thanks guys

Hey, if you love Silver Surfer, set him free. If he comes back, he is yours; if he doesn't, he's found another planet to be consumed by his Lord and Master the All-Powerful Galactus.

PeeOne

smkspy wrote:

Proof positive how 5 star affect scaling. I had a 5 star SS level 270 and was managing decently with him. Before the Awesome Hulk even I rostered 5 star Phoenix at 255. Without them my most powerful characters are 3* Hulk 140, BP 137, and 3* Storm at 135. Here is my Hulk node level from the new event.



And here is an alliance member of mine with a similar roster all his characters capped at 140 no 5 stars.



Seriously need a fix for this.

Same for me - I have 3 covers for SS - and 1 for JG Phoenix - decided to help my alliance out in PvP as I was bored and frustrated at the PvE after the first 3 'easy' nodes the opposition went up to 290's.

I am basically in 3* land with GSBW at 166 BP & DD at 142 (slowly getting them maxed) then drop to 130's

My strongest 4* is Antman 3/2/1 131...

I just can't compete with those levels

I also agree though that SS as a meat shield is good and if the rest of the team doesn't use red the Cosmic beam is handy.

I have been debating for close to a month about letting him go ... But I have almost everyone and 69 covers with the Cho Hulk waiting and 5*'s don't rain from the sky and command points have dried up too

It's sad as I am the commander of an alliance and I can't help my team!

PS - the resale Iso isn't a fair trade anyway - just looking at my 2* Magneto at Lvl 84 I'd only get 10,500 Iso if I sold him

Tony_Foot

I am a 2 star player. I have a good level 94 team and I'm working hard on my 3 star team and have 8 or so 4 stars. I have every 3 star. My highest level is 94 2 star. My PVP matches were pretty tough before. Couple of maxed two star and three star teams up to 300 points and a good variation of 3 star teams on the way to 550 points. Which was about my ceiling. Normally around T150.

Opened a legendary, SS.

Every single match of Loki pvp after finishing the 3 easy ones for 101 points has been level 166 teams or above if boosted upto 250 points. Beyond that I have seen teams with a 3 star or two and an optimal covered 4 star.

What the actual ****. I'm now at the mercy of the goodwill of my crew as I cannot make the scoring requirements anymore. As ever, I don't expect easy wins but asking a 2 star player to get dry humped because of a 5 star token is stupid. Hell I'd happily swap it for a 4 star anyway! It bloody better sort itself out or pvp will be dead to me.

smkspy

PeeOne wrote:

Same for me - I have 3 covers for SS - and 1 for JG Phoenix - decided to help my alliance out in PvP as I was bored and frustrated at the PvE after the first 3 'easy' nodes the opposition went up to 290's.

I am basically in 3* land with GSBW at 166 BP & DD at 142 (slowly getting them maxed) then drop to 130's

My strongest 4* is Antman 3/2/1 131...

I just can't compete with those levels

I also agree though that SS as a meat shield is good and if the rest of the team doesn't use red the Cosmic beam is handy.

I have been debating for close to a month about letting him go ... But I have almost everyone and 69 covers with the Cho Hulk waiting and 5*'s don't rain from the sky and command points have dried up too

It's sad as I am the commander of an alliance and I can't help my team!

PS - the resale Iso isn't a fair trade anyway - just looking at my 2* Magneto at Lvl 84 I'd only get 10,500 Iso if I sold him

I hear ya. While I no 166s, I have like nine that I could boost to 153 but lack the iso and my highest 4 star is a Rulk also at 131. Playing the PVE Hulk event, I'm learning not to use boosted characters unless absolutely necessary to keep my scaling down somewhat.

I did beat that 395 node though, and yeah, nobody want to let go of a 5 star. Just after that original post I finished Rocket and Groot pVE, and what do I get? Another 5 Jean. Now I just have to persevere grinding away in pve until I can get to a level where I can compete in PVP again.

Marty17

Question: if say all my characters are at max level with 2 are at lvl270 & 2 at base lvl255, would it make much difference if I take them to lvl270?

Like in look a like contest, it's (opponents) already at lvl395...

dr tinykittylove

Marty17 wrote:

Question: if say all my characters are at max level with 2 are at lvl270 & 2 at base lvl255, would it make much difference if I take them to lvl270?

Like in look a like contest, it's (opponents) already at lvl395...

I doubt it makes a difference if you already have 2 maxed 4*s.... on the other hand, at 1 cover the 5*s are not worth the iso. Save it for the 4*s who are actually useful!

Gmax101

I've tried to get head around this before....

Rosters with a 5* are better than rosters without.... So the game should take them in to account. They trivialise certain matchs (pve granted)

But the issue is that they so dramatically swing the scaling when they are rarely going to get used...

I have Pheonix with 1 cover and then about 9 maxed 3*, some developing but sub166 4* and the rest of 3* covered and level 120ish. Thing is, she has affected my scaling, but not as much as it can for lower level rosters. But at the same time I never use her... She has one cover which is useful but not terribly impactful. So other than a meat shield she achieves very little.

But I wish she was at a level that I could control... Starting at say 120 or even 166 and be cheap to level up. So when I am not using her, she is not affecting my scaling.

I don't think there is a practical way to exclude them from scaling while at 255... After all, if you pull a second random cover you now have 2 level 255 characters and that is strong, and should be considered.

But if they weren't so high from the get go, but something like 1 ISO to level up per level before 255, then players get the cool toys but can control how they are used.

Marty17

dr tinykittylove wrote:

Marty17 wrote:

Question: if say all my characters are at max level with 2 are at lvl270 & 2 at base lvl255, would it make much difference if I take them to lvl270?

Like in look a like contest, it's (opponents) already at lvl395...

I doubt it makes a difference if you already have 2 maxed 4*s.... on the other hand, at 1 cover the 5*s are not worth the iso. Save it for the 4*s who are actually useful!

Thanks doc!

puppychow

The AI only considers your top 3 characters for scaling. So raising your lower level characters won't change the average level of your roster.

A 255, 166, 166 comes out to 196 avg level. Featured character will be buffed to 260. Weeklies to 240.

A 255, 94, 94 comes out to 148. Buffed character to 150. If you carry a 2 roster plus a , yeah I would say you're screwed.

Gandalf333

So if I have a Silver Surfer on my roster, would that be affecting the matches I keep getting in SHIELD Simulator? Outside of Surfer, my best characters are all 3 stars sitting at 153 while I level up my others. I guess I also have a Thoress at 163 or so as well.

I'm getting smacked down hard whenever I get around 1500, and almost all the matches I get when looking for a new one are against 3 stars at 166, or with a mix of 4 stars... all teams that are stronger than mine. This used to be normal when surfing for a match or two, but ever since adding Silver Surfer, I now have to go through about ten matchups before I find one that's more on my level (and not worth a paltry amount of points, like below 30).

This is still happening after not playing for a bit and getting knocked back down to like 1350 or so. Everyone fighting me has a significantly better roster, and all the ones I can find unless I spend 100-200 ISO are all on better rosters than I have, which is way worse than it's ever been for me before. I generally end PVP seasons in the 1500-1600 range, and I've never had to scrabble to stay there like I am right now.

Chipster22

puppychow wrote:

The AI only considers your top 3 characters for scaling. So raising your lower level characters won't change the average level of your roster.

According to this thread, viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35429 the AI will take into account your top 4 to 7 characters depending on your personal scaling. (If I'm reading it correctly.)

PeeOne

Chipster22 wrote:

puppychow wrote:

The AI only considers your top 3 characters for scaling. So raising your lower level characters won't change the average level of your roster.

According to this thread, viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35429 the AI will take into account your top 4 to 7 characters depending on your personal scaling. (If I'm reading it correctly.)

We will soon see.. I have a SS & JG then next best is a 166 BWGS...

Just got rid of the JG cover - if it's top 3 my scaling should go down next event